New High Torque IGH announced by 3x3

[Merlin]

Thanks for sharing! I am also early adopter of Kindernay VII and my first one failed after about 8 month (and ~1800 miles on it), but they did replace it for me (was lucky to get the replacement before they got into troubles and stop selling stuff) and replacement is currently in use for 16 months, having ~3200 miles on it and still working fine (hopefully it will stay like this for some time, but new hub still leaks oil). As a hub, 3x3 looks more superior to Kindernay - no questions, but how do you like shifter? I used bikes with Shimano Nexus and Envoilo before and familiar with this type of shifters, but once I tried Kindernay shifter, I don't want go back to rotating one - I so much in favor of trigger shifting especially hydraulic ones. What is you experience? You like it more or less than trigger shifter by Kindernay? Are you going to change to electric once available?

I did prefer the trigger shift, but am getting used to the rotary. Once the electric shift is available I will try it. The hub shifts easily with no load, but under a slight load gets sticky so shift detection would be of benefit.

 

[ava1ar]

The hub shifts easily with no load, but under a slight load gets sticky so shift detection would be of benefit.

This is quite common for IGH - none of the hubs allows you to shift easily under the load. Electronic shifters potentially allows shift detection to be used (I think Rohloff/Bosch combo offers it - correct me here if I am wrong). Do you have any info about their electronic shifting implementation? Like supported motors, power source, multi-gear shift support?

 

[Deacon Blues]

My Kindernay will shift under load, but it doesn't like it. It was a bit of a learning curve, but I now pause my pedalling when I shift.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

I have the 3x3 Nine on my Ebike,

Merlin, can you share us a coy of the owners manual pdf for the 3X3 Nine?

 

[Merlin]

Merlin, can you share us a coy of the owners manual pdf for the 3X3 Nine?

No owners manual is available that I can see. There is no maintenance, no oil changes, and VPL.Bike has all the necessary parts for a conversion. They will even do the wheel build at a cost. I have put it through the paces over 300 miles of riding, and it is operating superbly.

 

[hkckoo]

Brutal that I cannot buy this hub anywhere in europe and all the popular/modern IGH are essentially made in Europe.. Rohloff, 3X3, Kindernay... I can buy just the hub in USA from vpl.bike, but I contacted the german manufacturer of 3x3 NINE and they said that they cannot sell me just the hub, I need to buy a whole bike with this hub already implemented from their partners for a small price of 6-10k€. Hilarious. So I guess I will buy the hub from USA and pay the hefty import and duties costs, no matter that I live in the neighbouring country right beside Germany, lol.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I sympathize with you! (I reckon you are from the Czech Republic, aye?)
That's unfortunately the policy of companies operating on the Business-To-Business principle, and selling only a bigger quantity of their products to OEMs.
I wonder whether the 3x3 products would go to the aftermarket in a foreseeable future. Fancy a user has had his/her bike for, say, 7 years, and the IGH breaks. Would the original e-bike OEM still support the 3x3? Could the user buy that IGH in the aftermarket?

 

[hkckoo]

Czech Republic, yep. the manufacturer said that they plan on offering just the hubs in the future, but as of right now, they dont know when that will happen exactly. one of their german partners confirmed that they can order just the hubs from the manufacturer and they can essentially resell them to you, another said no bueno. I guess I will try to go this route to get my hands on the hub and do some riding during the summer.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Czech Republic, yep. the manufacturer said that they plan on offering just the hubs in the future, but as of right now, they dont know when that will happen exactly. one of their german partners confirmed that they can order just the hubs from the manufacturer and they can essentially resell them to you, another said no bueno. I guess I will try to go this route to get my hands on the hub and do some riding during the summer.

What e-bike do you currently ride? I could see several posts of yours, and it looks you are very much interested in the belt drive and the IGH?

 

[hkckoo]

What e-bike do you currently ride? I could see several posts of yours, and it looks you are very much interested in the belt drive and the IGH?

yeah, the thing is... i dont ride e-bikes i like to "ride manual" and challenging myself with unusual bikes and I also ride foldable bikes. i registered on this forum because there was a lot of interesting info when I was building one of my bikes, replacing the stock sturmey archer IGH with kindernay. now I plan to do the same using another bike model and another IGH, as kindernay went bust and the hub that I bought is leaking oil no matter what I tried. the bike that I am currently modifying with 3X3 NINE and hopefully even a belt, if chainstay length permits, to truly have an essentially zero maintenance fun bike to ride after work and as part of my workout, is halfbikes.com

btw: if anyone can tell me where I can buy the 3x3 160mm Brake Disc, as they seem to be making a proprietary rotor design, it would be much appreciated, I dont think I will be able to fit a 180mm that is available in some shops.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

We are building a few samples with a 3x3 hub and a Bafang ultra motor.
Our prototypes will be ready by January 2025. I will update the forum with some pictures by then.

 

[Ebiker33]

We are building a few samples with a 3x3 hub and a Bafang ultra motor.
Our prototypes will be ready by January 2025. I will update the forum with some pictures by then.

That is winning combo for sure, with a gates belt too, I am sure those in the market for a new Ebike in 2025 will be looking at this one.

 

[Merlin]

I now have over 800 miles on the hub with no issues. 3rd and 6th gears are not totally silent like the rest, but that has always been the case. I find myself turning off the power as the gearing is so low in first that I can power up hills on my own. I only power up to stay with traffic. IMO the 3x3 is the only hub that survives the Bafang Ultra.

 

[Ebiker33]

Was watching the video, upside less maintenance and leaks, with just grease, downside if you ride in colder weather, but that isn't a issue for most.

 

[TPEHAK]

I have the 3x3 Nine on my Ebike, and I love it. The IGH shifts smooth, and at a stop. The 3x3 handles 250 nm of torque, and requires no maintenance. Add a Gates belt, and you have a drive train that finally handles the power of the Bafang Ultra. This is a game changer, and my dream bike has finally arrived.

What is the maximum speed you can achieve with this setup? The rear pulley looks quite large.

 

[kevinmccune]

What is the maximum speed you can achieve with this setup? The rear pulley looks quite large.

enjoy your ecycle(remember to move the crank occasionally) hey just saying!

 

[TPEHAK]

My Kindernay VII is over. Placed order on 3x3 with Vapor Propulsion Labs.

Where I can find the 32 spokes 12x148 mm through axle hub sizes to calculate the spokes length?

I am also quite skeptical about the grip shifter with wire actuation. My frame requires quite sharp turns of the cables and I feel it will cause excessive friction of the cable wires which may cause shifting issues. Unfortunately there is no hydraulic actuation option for this gear hub.

 

[Gionnirocket]

My Kindernay VII is over. Placed order on 3x3 with Vapor Propulsion Labs.

Where I can find the 32 spokes 12x148 mm through axle hub sizes to calculate the spokes length?

I am also quite skeptical about the grip shifter with wire actuation. My frame requires quite sharp turns of the cables and I feel it will cause excessive friction of the cable wires which may cause shifting issues. Unfortunately there is no hydraulic actuation option for this gear hub.

View attachment 193753

I'm using a Rohloff with my naturally aspirated 1000w Ultra and so far so good. 4000mi on one and 2500mi on another.
3x3 borrowed the dual shift cable setup from Rohloff and though I have some tight internal routing myself, it's been working well.
I ride for exercise and appreciate the tighter gear spacing of the Rohloff as many times +/-1 gear is all I need to change.
That said the 3x3 seems to be a tank and the Rohloff was developed before the age of ebikes so who knows how long it will last with this amount of power running through it.
Good luck... I'm interested in hearing how things turn out.

 

[TPEHAK]

The 3x3 parts have arrived!

The parts look like very high quality product. The 3x3 hub has no free play between the case and the axles whatsoever (Kindernay gear hubs have some free play).

Unfortunately there is no chain tensioner in the kit and no tubes for the cables so this stuff should be figured out by the user.

The cog is asymmetrical which means you can not flip it to extend service life.

This thing feels heavy (and I hope they used that weight smart and put material where it needs to be to make it stronger). It is also quite large comparing with Kindernay, it looks more like motor hub rather than gear hub.

Will see if this can survive 3000W motor. According to this report 4500W busted this gear hub in 2 miles

Has anyone actually used a 3x3 Nine or Revolute IGH (with or without a mid-motor)?

I've gotten so sick of derailleurs I'm ready to pull the trigger on an IGH for my main BBSHD iron steed. The wise thing would be to try something cheap first like a Sturmey Archer or Alfine, but I know I won't like the gear range and in any case these don't really have enough torque-handling...

endless-sphere.com

 

[TPEHAK]

Ordered some SAPIM STRONG J BEND BLACK SINGLE BUTTED 14|13G OR 2.0|2.4MM SPOKES for this hub

SAPIM STRONG J BEND BLACK SINGLE BUTTED 14|13G OR 2.0|2.4MM SPOKES - prowheelbuilder.com | Prowheelbuilder.com

Like it says, the strongest spoke in Sapim’s product range. The Strong is developed for specifi c and heavy usage such as tandem, e-bikes or heavy load use. In case of large hub holes, the Strong is the recommended choice.

www.prowheelbuilder.com

And some SAPIM POLYAX 14MM 14 GAUGE SILVER LOCKING BRASS NIPPLES

SAPIM POLYAX 14MM 14 GAUGE SILVER LOCKING BRASS NIPPLE - prowheelbuilder.com | Prowheelbuilder.com

Have Prowheelbuilder.com build your custom bike wheel with SAPIM POLYAX 14MM 14 GAUGE SILVER LOCKING BRASS NIPPLE. Only $0.35 each.

www.prowheelbuilder.com

Here are the sizes for this hub for 148x12mm through axle option with 32 holes with 2cross pattern for NEXTIE Jungle Fox II 27.5" rim

NEXTIE - [Jungle Fox II] 27.5" Mountain Bicycle Carbon Rim 52mm 530g

NEXTIE - [Jungle Fox II] 27.5" Mountain Bike Plus Carbon Rim 52mm for Trail, Enduro and Freeride riding.

www.nextie.com