New BBS Middrive!

[Adrian]

Looks like Bafang has finally listened and produced a new middrive which will fit all BB sizes - going by the product page, you'll have to choose the motor by BB size. More power too - 160Nm! Cooling fins, integrated speed sensor and I'm guessing the new mosfets and BB sealing too.

Looks like the old 750W BBS02 isn't even listed on their pages anymore - only their 250/350 and 500w old style models.

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

I'm going to get one of these at some point. Just awesome.

 

[James129]

owww snap, nice.

nvm... read the post properly this time. can't wait for these to hit the market.

 

[flymeaway]

Looks like the old 750W BBS02 isn't even listed

I wonder if the MM G31.500 is the motor em3ev http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=36&product_id=166 sells in either 36V 500W or 48V 750W configuration?

I agree, the new motor does look great. I think Bafang is emerging as perhaps the premier manufacturer of mid-drives.

Court J.

 

[Adrian]

I wonder if the MM G31.500 is the motor em3ev http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=36&product_id=166 sells in either 36V 500W or 48V 750W configuration?

I agree, the new motor does look great. I think Bafang is emerging as perhaps the premier manufacturer of mid-drives.

Court J.

I've asked Paul at Em3ev when he'll get pricing/more info on them - hopefully not too long. I wonder if there will be a shift sensor/eRad version too.

 

[Bike_On]

Looks like Bafang has finally listened and produced a new middrive which will fit all BB sizes - going by the product page, you'll have to choose the motor by BB size. More power too - 160Nm! Cooling fins, integrated speed sensor and I'm guessing the new mosfets and BB sealing too.

Looks like the old 750W BBS02 isn't even listed on their pages anymore - only their 250/350 and 500w old style models.

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

I'm going to get one of these at some point. Just awesome.

48V/1000W, in a small, geared, motor case. That's a lot of heat (power) to dissipate. Is the controller separate?

 

[Bike_On]

I wonder if the MM G31.500 is the motor em3ev http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=36&product_id=166 sells in either 36V 500W or 48V 750W configuration?

I agree, the new motor does look great. I think Bafang is emerging as perhaps the premier manufacturer of mid-drives.

Court J.

Court,
Premiere manufacturer? Me thinks your love for Bafang's value as a DIY option is swaying your perception. If 50-60% of the OEM market starts using a Bafang MD system, either BBo2, MM G31.500, or other, then I would agree they are the "premiere" company.

They are able to offer perceived better value due to higher power and torque, simply because they market to DIY. Bosch and Derby (Focus) MDs could build a more powerful standard motor too, but it is not in there business plan.

Other DIY MD's, like Ecospeed, StokeMonkey have been there for more years, but offer a less sleek integrated kit.

I am impressed with these specs and reports of the BB02. I do wonder about long term reliability of the gear wear.

D

 

[Adrian]

Court,
Premiere manufacturer? Me thinks your love for Bafang's value as a DIY option is swaying your perception. If 50-60% of the OEM market starts using a Bafang MD system, either BBo2, MM G31.500, or other, then I would agree they are the "premiere" company.

They are able to offer perceived better value due to higher power and torque, simply because they market to DIY. Bosch and Derby (Focus) MDs could build a more powerful standard motor too, but it is not in there business plan.

Other DIY MD's, like Ecospeed, StokeMonkey have been there for more years, but offer a less sleek integrated kit.

I am impressed with these specs and reports of the BB02. I do wonder about long term reliability of the gear wear.

D

But remember, Bafang also have their Bosch look-alike max drive which walked all over the many Bosch teams in a recent 24 hour ebike race. They aren't just DIY any more.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

But remember, Bafang also have their Bosch look-alike max drive which walked all over the many Bosch teams in a recent 24 hour ebike race. They aren't just DIY ant more.

Well, we don't have much data regarding the MAX drive and it's hard to compare the reliability and quality.
As for all these E-bike races, E-bike world championships, they look like joke to me. If a non-pro guy like me can do 500km/day, if we put some elite athletes on one of these machines, they can easily do 800km/day.
So, 600km/day in TEAM events is not that impressive.

But Bafang enjoys the economies of scale and they produce in millions for the Chinese market.
Here is a quick tour that Pete did early this year.

This is the new MAX drive and I wonder if they are still using the Nylon gears?

The problem as noted by Karl of Electric Fat Bike is that they are still using Nylon gears and trying to push 750W + through them.

Such Nylon gears are prone to teeth damage or what Karl says "peanut butter gear"

Great article here about the replacement of Nylon gears.

Honestly, I'm not sure if Bosch or Derby is doing any different.

Their motors are also using something similar.



So, may be Bosch and Derby has corporate leverage and vitamin-M to push their drive into EU markets while Bafang is primarily focused on Asian markets.

May be the mid-drives are still work in progress.....

 

[Bike_On]

But remember, Bafang also have their Bosch look-alike max drive which walked all over the many Bosch teams in a recent 24 hour ebike race. They aren't just DIY ant more.

Do you have a link? Specs? Is it used in OEMs? Do any of the premiere MD Bafangs have PAS yet?

 

[Adrian]

Ravi, I kind of agree about the racing, however, beating a dozen Bosch powered teams on their own turf must mean something, probably something good.

 

[Adrian]

Do you have a link? Specs? Is it used in OEMs? Do any of the premiere MD Bafangs have PAS yet?

Not on me but there is some info around if you google - it's very new but think similar specs and look as Bosch. I'm guessing there will be a bike or 2 with it on at interbike.

 

[MLB]

Ravi, I kind of agree about the racing, however, beating a dozen Bosch powered teams on their own turf must mean something, probably something good.

Not really. As Bosch are built to a 20mph and 250w max euro standard, (whole 350watters here) why would you expect them to be able to compete with much larger, more powerful motors that are ILLEGAL almost everywhere?
Bafang is Chinese and they don't give a rats ass about the rest of the worlds rules.
That's not really very good.

 

[MLB]

Sounds like the new motor will be a fat bike dream.

 

[Adrian]

Not really. As Bosch are built to a 20mph and 250w max euro standard, (whole 350watters here) why would you expect them to be able to compete with much larger, more powerful motors that are ILLEGAL almost everywhere?
Bafang is Chinese and they don't give a rats ass about the rest of the worlds rules.
That's not really very good.

A couple of things you misunderstood.

The max drive is aimed at the Bosch market so has similar limits.
The 24 hour Nuburgring race had allowable limits of assist so all drives were limited to the same speed cutoff on assist.
What the max drive does have is more torque than the Bosch which would, IMO, give a significant advantage on such a hilly course especially over a long, 24 hour period.

 

[James129]

I've asked Paul at Em3ev when he'll get pricing/more info on them - hopefully not too long. I wonder if there will be a shift sensor/eRad version too.

Thanks - got to keep us posted on what he says.

I've been eyeing up a new bike, full suspension, and most of these new bikes have a large bottom bracket. If this kits works out I might have an option available to me, cool.

 

[Adrian]

Thanks - got to keep us posted on what he says.

I've been eyeing up a new bike, full suspension, and most of these new bikes have a large bottom bracket. If this kits works out I might have an option available to me, cool.

Paul hasn't any info on the motor yet but he's pushing for some with his contacts.

 

[flymeaway]

I do wonder about long term reliability of the gear wear

Almost 4,000 miles on my 36V 500W conversion and still tight and almost as quiet as the 1st mile, so from a longevity standpoint not too shabby so far. I used the word "premier" because they are focused on the DIY market and from what I can see they are the sales and product leader in that space. Don't know if they sell OEM's???? The "biggest" problem I have with electric bikes is affordability. Having bought both a Neo Carbon and a Neo Cross and converted 4 additional bikes I appreciate what you can have for a finished product, and that's where affordability enters the picture. I like the Neo's for the integration and appearance, but at the premium price....?????? As far as function; I'll take the Bafang BBS02 over the Neo's.

Court J.

 

[flymeaway]

Do any of the premiere MD Bafangs have PAS yet

Not sure I understand this question? All Bafang BBS series use an integrated pedal/cadence sensor. If you are pedaling forward the motor will turn on until you stop pedaling or the assist level cut-off speed is reached.
Court J.

 

[k_oflynn2000]

Sounds and looks great, i have the 48v 500w and it has more than enough pedal asist power but where i wish i had more was in the forest standing up on the pedals using the throttle like a motorcross bike. This is great fun but EATS the battery. With 1000w and 160nm of torque, my 11.6ah battery isnt gonna last 10 minutes. So if i was just to use it for PAS its pointless as the 500w could pull me up the side of a mountain. Even in throttle only mode. Maybe as batteries get more powerfull and smaller this will come into its own.

 

[Adrian]

Sounds and looks great, i have the 48v 500w and it has more than enough pedal asist power but where i wish i had more was in the forest standing up on the pedals using the throttle like a motorcross bike. This is great fun but EATS the battery. With 1000w and 160nm of torque, my 11.6ah battery isnt gonna last 10 minutes. So if i was just to use it for PAS its pointless as the 500w could pull me up the side of a mountain. Even in throttle only mode. Maybe as batteries get more powerfull and smaller this will come into its own.

I find on steep hills (road) that even my 750w slows down to 20kph - I'm hoping the new one will manage 30kph on those hills. At the very least, it should be less stressed at the same speeds on the same hills, so less likely to overheat.