Racingkyle
Member
I've lo
i have looked a lot at Polaris. it's a descent alternate.
Need help with Haibike, M1 spitzing, stealth, optibike, Stromer,focus, or grace e bikes
- Thread starter Racingkyle
- Start date
Mike leroy
Active Member
Would you rather have M1 Spitzing, Polaris Aapex or Focus Thorn Speed?
Racingkyle
Member
I would go with the M1. I am quite curious about how they are getting their torque and top speed. also, do you think 7 seconds is a long time to get to 30? I timed it and it seemed long, but maybe it would feel faster because hold your concentration in the road
Mike leroy
Active Member
I think it is like the Yamaha motor in the Haibike SDuro, or a single cylinder, 300cc, grunt motorcyle like KTM. They are good at generating power at low RPMs. Ducati is great at 11000 RPM, but absolutely sucks at 4000 RPM.
Yes, 7 seconds seems sluggish.
Mike leroy
Active Member
I found these graphs by searching Google Images for "torque curve ebike". You might want to contact the manufacturers for their most recent Torque Curves.
Here is the torque curve for the Falco kit, which you can find reviews for on EBR. It serves as a good general example for HUB motors:
Compare with Stealth Bomber. They way you read a torque chart is to look where the two lines intercept. Find the RPM, i.e., 230. The motor is most effective at that RPM.
Here is the torque curve for the Falco kit, which you can find reviews for on EBR. It serves as a good general example for HUB motors:
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Bike_On
Well-Known Member
Race-
The R8 has better components. That rohloff hub is sweet for a mid drive. If you don't need full suspension, have you looked at their SIMBB?
Racingkyle
Member
full suspension is very important to me. Ok so I've talked about this a lot with mike: Looking at power and acceleration. Would you choose the opti bike R8, stealth fighter, or spitzing M1. The M1 has loads of torque (over 100nm), and a top speed around 45, but takes 7 seconds to hit 30 mph. The opti one has internal gears, reliable, and has a powerful mid drive motor. The stealth runs in at 3500 watts with tons of amp hours. accelerates like a sports car.
Mike leroy
Active Member
RideOn,
The 2012 HPC torque curve from the accurate dyno for Stealth Fighter seems to contradict the CA Simulator graph in the Torque article. The max torque from HPC chart is 149Nm(109ft-lbs), but simulator reads 100Nm. Am I misreading the charts?
Racingkyle
Member
I'm not even considering HPC. There have been so many random specs advertised that I'm quite sure nobody knows exactly what they are getting
Mike leroy
Active Member
HPC published the Stealth Bomber 2012 4500W torque curve by running the SF on dynamometer. I do not believe HPC would falsify a graph that anyone with a dynamometer can effortlessly disprove. HPC would be very foolish to ruin their credibility so easily.
This seems to validate the article that challenged CA simulator accuracy. The CA simulator, like any simulator, is a model that can easily generate inaccurate results. I have personally written software to model many things. I know how well and poorly they do perform.
I have more trouble trusting the simulator than HPC.
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Bike_On
Well-Known Member
I really can't answer that objectively. I've owned an Optibike before, so I'm biased towards them. It really depends on your needs, not my wants.
What are your priority parameters? top speed/hills/commute/trails/silence/cost/ride quality/distance/safety/etc.
Bike_On
Well-Known Member
I think the simulator is accurate. My opinion.
Racingkyle
Member
Cost anywhere under 12k. top speed 30 or above. I'll be going on fairly bumpy trails. 20 miles is enough. Hills would be 10% in general, 15% max I would ever experience. Commute isn't a big deal, I just wear a backpack.
Bike_On
Well-Known Member
sounds like you need a good, full suspension mtn bike for trails? I'm not sure you need 30mph for trails...or is that to get your to the trails?
If you want to blast trails, the upper quality Haibikes look great, and the Focus FS bikes have the bigger battery. Those are great low power options. Court has reviewed Lapierre (sp?) and others. Be careful to only get top quality suspension and fatter knobby tires.
If you are set on more power, then M1, Optibike M8 or HD. Stealth is the only hub I'd buy for any rough off road. Stealth has top shocks and brakes to handle the weight and stopping, and a solid frame. The extra weight will beat up your frame. A FS mid drive gives the best balance.
M1, Opti and Stealth all have good enough components for off road, IMO. I think the M1 is a revived Clean Mobile motor.
The M1 looks to be the best value. It is a pedelec, while Stealth and Opti are throttle only.
If you want to blast trails, the upper quality Haibikes look great, and the Focus FS bikes have the bigger battery. Those are great low power options. Court has reviewed Lapierre (sp?) and others. Be careful to only get top quality suspension and fatter knobby tires.
If you are set on more power, then M1, Optibike M8 or HD. Stealth is the only hub I'd buy for any rough off road. Stealth has top shocks and brakes to handle the weight and stopping, and a solid frame. The extra weight will beat up your frame. A FS mid drive gives the best balance.
M1, Opti and Stealth all have good enough components for off road, IMO. I think the M1 is a revived Clean Mobile motor.
The M1 looks to be the best value. It is a pedelec, while Stealth and Opti are throttle only.
Racingkyle
Member
Thank you your reply. I thought the M1 was a good deal, but i am slightly concerned about the acceleration. Here is my theory. if you want to accelerate quickly on a pedelec, is it possible to start spinning your legs fast enough to compensate for not having a throttle? I agree that the extra weight of the stealth will be tough on the frame, but it seems as though that is the main purpose of the bike. The optibike R8 is a nice bike. It does seem as though with the other two competing models, this optibike seems limited for its price. since you've owned one, do you have any information on it? what you like about it?
Mike leroy
Active Member
Ride,
You are correct, Clean Mobile was bought from bankruptcy proceedings. I am skeptical because Clean Mobile was a German company that filed for bankruptcy.
What is your take on these components?
M1 – drive system combines German engineering with Swiss engine technology (GoSwiss) and German battery- and electronic know-how (BMZ GmbH). A high-tech system that powerfully accelerates the Pedelec / S- Pedelec and ensures gentle control of the engines power, regulated according to the drivers pedaling force.
Racingkyle
Member
gentle control and regulated sounds like words they use to "sugarcoat" something
Mike leroy
Active Member
Ride,
I actually lived in Switzerland for a year in high school. I spoke german fluently. I agree american marketing would blur these distinctions. In this case, I believe it is a poor English translation of how they literally express themselves.
I meant what do you think about the motor having 90% gear contact due to pins connecting 150 teeth? Is it a true advance or suffer from hidden drawbacks?
Racingkyle
Member
This might be an incredibly dumb suggestion, but wouldn't more gear contact lead to more chance of the gears wearing down quickly
Racingkyle
Member
Ah the s peddlec. That is their granny model. I like the r (racing model)
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