My DIY builds: GMAC, BBSHD, 9C RH212, CYC Photon, ToSeven DM01

[linklemming]

Well I spent too much time researching this and just decided to bite the bullet on a new build.

I did spend a full day playing with the motor simulator at Grin Technologies comparing the GMAC10t to the BBSHD for various riding scenarios (about 20). The bottom line was that the GMAC10t was more efficient for all the riding I typically do up until a 6% grade at which point the BBSHD pulled ahead. The BBSHD could be more efficient in many of these situations if I used a super high cadence like 130+(the BBSHD can struggle at lower human limiting cadence) but thats not how I ride. Even at grades up to 15%, while the MAC10t wasnt as efficient and could overheat, I dont ride grades at that level for very long (I do encounter 20-30% grades every few rides but only for short periods). I actually wrote a document on this just to help me summarize my thoughts but it would stir up alot of controversy if I post it here. This analysis matched my experience riding my GMAC10t for the last 6 months. My rides are an average of many conditions and the GMAC10t is just the best solution overall.

In the end the MAC10t was the winner for all the rides i currently do from my house. While having an identical setup on a second bike makes alot of sense in many ways, I decided to go with the BBSHD (without the beloved torque sensing) initially. If I cant get the Bafang settings to my satisfaction, I will transition to a Grin Phaserunner and Cycle Analyst 3. If I go this route, comparing the mac10t(hub motor) to BBSHD (mid drive) could be interesting

If I decide to venture more into the steeper rides available around where I live, no questions that the BBSHD is the ticket.

So far:
Surly 700c Bridge Club(BC) in Black (Its a miracle I found this bike, probably last one in the USA), arrived today
BBSHD kit from Luna (seemed the cheapest)
52V Luna Wolf Battery using 30Q cells
Eggrider Display
Lekkie 42t chainring

Not sure which bike the BBSHD will end up on. The troll is probably is a better fit for the BBSHD and the GMAC will be better on the BC. I will provide more details on this in future posts.

The BC arrived today (Fedex delivers on sundays now). Thanks to Nashbar for the quick shipping.

FIrst thought on the BC is that it is a lot leaner bike than the troll. The BC is known as a light tourer and the Troll is designed to tour anywhere. Its very obvious in the construction. The Troll is pretty stiff so a more compliant bike will be welcome.

I will try the original 29 wheels with some wider tires than the stock 41mm. either smartsams in 29x2.1 or Marathon Plus MTB in 29x2.1.

That being said, I have ordered the parts to build my own wheels which will hold 27.5x2.6 Smart Sams and/or Johhny Watts.

Here is a initial pic of the BC

 

[AHicks]

Could you expand a bit on your choice of wheel components please? Are you going with Halo? 36 spoke? Width? Source?

I need to source a pair to convert my 26" fatty (mistake) to 27.5x 2.4-2.8. If I can't find what I need pre built, I'll have to learn how to lace up a set myself. Rear 170mm dropout is causing me issues. That's a surprise as I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that want to convert - even just for summer use.
Thanks, -Al

 

[mclewis1]

Well I spent too much time researching this and just decided to bite the bullet on a new build. ...

That sounds very familiar.
Congrats on the new bike, it also looks very familiar . From what I've read that's a fairly rare version of the BC (glossy black, 29/700c, Shimano 11spd) ... mine was the more common black, 27.5, SRAM 12spd. On the road/urban trails I would have preferred to ride the 700c version (lighter wheels) but needed the extra clearance from slightly smaller 27.5 wheels with fenders. Interestingly with 650x50mm tires (Donnelly Strada USB) the wheel circumference is almost identical to the 700x41mm ETs.

I look forward to the mid drive/rear hub discussion. If you do go GMAC on the BC I'll also be really curious where you end up with crankset/chainring choices.

Cheers,
Mark

 

[linklemming]

Could you expand a bit on your choice of wheel components please? Are you going with Halo? 36 spoke? Width? Source?

I need to source a pair to convert my 26" fatty (mistake) to 27.5x 2.4-2.8. If I can't find what I need pre built, I'll have to learn how to lace up a set myself. Rear 170mm dropout is causing me issues. That's a surprise as I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that want to convert - even just for summer use.
Thanks, -Al

I previously used Velocity Blunt 35 30mm inner width 36h Rims(velocityusa,com) on the GMAC equipped bike. They were backordered at the time and it took about 6 weeks to get them. They were $120 each. At that time, there were no Halo Rims available.

I tried to order a second pair of the Blunt rims and they were backordered (you are not made aware of this until after you have completed the order).

For this build, I ordered a set of Halo SAS DH 27.5 30mm inner width 36h rims from halo-usa. They are half the price of the Blunts.

DT swiss rims can also be found at modernbike but they are around $180 each.

The hubs will be Shimano XT HB-M756.

Spokes/nipples and spoke calculator is from wheelbuilder.com. For the GMAC motor, use the spoke calculator and HD Sapin spokes at grin.

I actually did the research awhile back on converting a Juice Ripcurrent to have non-fat bike tires/rims. The stock 26x4 tires have a diameter of 762mm. A 27.5x2.8 tire is 726mm so thats a 18mm BB drop or about 3/4inch. A 29x2.8 would be closer at 764mm.

A good source for tire size info: https://www.bikecalc.com/wheel_size_math

 

[m@Robertson]

@linklemming I don't know how much you've worked with BBSHD drivetrains, but I don't see you talking about beefing it up. I typically build wheels with a mid-drive build and the back needs special attention thanks to the torque going thru the thing. The BC has 141mm rear spacing, which means Boost QR. My Envoy has that spacing - (the only reason I know what that weird size means). For that bike I used the DT 350 Hybrid hub, which is the only hub I know that is indestructible behind the BBSHD (Pushkar has noted the SunRingle hubs he uses on WW bikes are rated for more torque).

The issue is simple: 160 Nm. The solution is multi-layered. First, the rear cluster's individual cogs dig into the cassette body. Solve that with a 9 speed Shimano HG200 or HG400 as they are welded together steel, which distributes the delivered force across the entire cassette body. But the BC is 11 spd. My Surly BFD came already equipped with the best 11s option I could find: A Sunrace CSMS7 11-40T which is steel and 1-pc-ish thanks to it being bolted together. Also available in an 11-42T. Both are unicorns on the open market right now but keep an eye on ebay.

Underneath the cogs is the cassette body. As usual with a mid steel is real. Alloy cassette bodies are dug into as it is but with 1kw+ its really bad. A steel body under a 1-pc cluster solves this. the Salsa hubs my BFD's wheels came with are steel. Your BC's Novatecs... probably are steel. But underneath the steel body is the last weak spot: pawls. For obvious reasons a 3-pawl body is getting brutal treatment. Thats a common failure point on HD'd emtb hubs that see a lot of singletrack.

The best overall hub solution I have found - it ain't cheap - is the DT 350 Hybrid, which is meant for ebikes and tandems. Its beefier in every way on general principles, and uses a 24T ratchet engagement mech instead of pawls. The 18T on the standard 350's is indestructible as it is. The 24T ratchets on the Hybrids are also solid. Also the steel cassette body you ordinarily have to buy separately for a plain 350 is included with the hub from the factory.

I use a 350 Hybrid (Boost size with QR endcaps swapped in makes it a 141mm) on my Envoy's wheel build. I did not realize it came in a 36H version or I would have used that along with a 36H MTX39 rim. Instead mine uses 32H. IIRC I used DT 2.34 Champ spokes with brass nipples. that combo will take anything you throw at it with a BBSHD even if you just go standard 350 (my only choice, with a steel upgrade, on my fat bikes).

But an alloy cassette body will die for sure. Here's one of mine from a different bike after 1000 miles. Its a 2wd street bike so I was going easy on it, big time. A trail bike with just an HD would be more than double this amount of wear. Left is a DT ratchet alloy. On the right is steel, before it was installed. Several hundred miles later no difference in its look.

Good luck on your project!

 

[linklemming]

@linklemming I don't know how much you've worked with BBSHD drivetrains, but I don't see you talking about beefing it up. I typically build wheels with a mid-drive build and the back needs special attention thanks to the torque going thru the thing. The BC has 141mm rear spacing, which means Boost QR. My Envoy has that spacing - (the only reason I know what that weird size means). For that bike I used the DT 350 Hybrid hub, which is the only hub I know that is indestructible behind the BBSHD (Pushkar has noted the SunRingle hubs he uses on WW bikes are rated for more torque).

The issue is simple: 160 Nm. The solution is multi-layered. First, the rear cluster's individual cogs dig into the cassette body. Solve that with a 9 speed Shimano HG200 or HG400 as they are welded together steel, which distributes the delivered force across the entire cassette body. But the BC is 11 spd. My Surly BFD came already equipped with the best 11s option I could find: A Sunrace CSMS7 11-40T which is steel and 1-pc-ish thanks to it being bolted together. Also available in an 11-42T. Both are unicorns on the open market right now but keep an eye on ebay.

Underneath the cogs is the cassette body. As usual with a mid steel is real. Alloy cassette bodies are dug into as it is but with 1kw+ its really bad. A steel body under a 1-pc cluster solves this. the Salsa hubs my BFD's wheels came with are steel. Your BC's Novatecs... probably are steel. But underneath the steel body is the last weak spot: pawls. For obvious reasons a 3-pawl body is getting brutal treatment. Thats a common failure point on HD'd emtb hubs that see a lot of singletrack.

The best overall hub solution I have found - it ain't cheap - is the DT 350 Hybrid, which is meant for ebikes and tandems. Its beefier in every way on general principles, and uses a 24T ratchet engagement mech instead of pawls. The 18T on the standard 350's is indestructible as it is. The 24T ratchets on the Hybrids are also solid. Also the steel cassette body you ordinarily have to buy separately for a plain 350 is included with the hub from the factory.

I use a 350 Hybrid (Boost size with QR endcaps swapped in makes it a 141mm) on my Envoy's wheel build. I did not realize it came in a 36H version or I would have used that along with a 36H MTX39 rim. Instead mine uses 32H. IIRC I used DT 2.34 Champ spokes with brass nipples. that combo will take anything you throw at it with a BBSHD even if you just go standard 350 (my only choice, with a steel upgrade, on my fat bikes).

But an alloy cassette body will die for sure. Here's one of mine from a different bike after 1000 miles. Its a 2wd street bike so I was going easy on it, big time. A trail bike with just an HD would be more than double this amount of wear. Left is a DT ratchet alloy. On the right is steel, before it was installed. Several hundred miles later no difference in its look.

View attachment 87176

Good luck on your project!

Wow, thanks for the info.

I knew this would be a problem that I would have to address. I have researched this subject somewhat awhile back but never came to a conclusion.

The XT hub I picked was cheap enough at $32 and I can use it on an acoustic bike if needed.

 

[m@Robertson]

No worries at all. Glad to help if I can. On the DIY groups you see soooo many disasters that could have been avoided by thoughtful builds, but instead the equipment gets the blame and mid drives have a rep for unreliability or shockingly fast drivetrain wear.

I literally just took this picture. This is from my 2wd Bullitt so the front motor is still giving the drivetrain an easier time than it would normally have. Its an 11spd CSMS7 cluster where I am mostly running on my smallest three cogs, the last two of which are slip-on and not a part of the bolted together remainder. This afternoon's chore was to replace the stock 18T ratchet with a 36T (I have a 24 Hybrid but I think this street bike can handle 36T, which is great for fast engagement) and to swap in the steel cassette body I was too forgetful to be bothered with when I built the bike.

After 496 total, relatively moderate street miles, you can see why I say stick to steel. And not only is this motor on easy street thanks to the helper motor up front, it also has had its settings toned down with my pedelec recipe.

There's no reason to be a'feared of mid drive wear. You just have to use your brain which I didn't, and as a designated cheerleader for right tools/right job... I totally knew better. So this puppy is going into a box and not on Ebay.

Also the last ingredient to the mid drive drivetrain puzzle is a KMC e11 chain. Stressed for mid drives. Buy two because you have to have one as a spare in your tool bag along with chain pliers and a couple of master links. Just as important as a pump and patch kit if you have a hi-po mid kit on the bike. You want the kind with the solid side plates, not the lightened one. The price will make you queasy but this is what you pay to be one of the cool kids with an 11-speed.

and as a general FYI:

How To Ride a Mid Drive Ebike Without Breaking It

If you can ride a bicycle you already know how to ride a hub drive ebike. Not so a mid drive. Particularly a powerful one that can tear your chain apart. Fear not. The rules are simple.

talesontwowheels.com

 

[AHicks]

I'm sorry for taking this topic astray, but one question. As mentioned I have a 170 drop out dimension. Are there adapters available to let me use a 140 something mm hub on this bike? If so, (how) would it/they affect the chain line? It's a 9 speed with Altus derailleur if I remember right.

Thanks guys. Been looking all over and it seems I'm getting nowhere - until I see these notes. MUCH appreciated! -Al

 

[m@Robertson]

I'm sorry for taking this topic astray, but one question. As mentioned I have a 170 drop out dimension. Are there adapters available to let me use a 140 something mm hub on this bike? If so, (how) would it/they affect the chain line? It's a 9 speed with Altus derailleur if I remember right.

Not that I know of but that doesn't mean someone on AliExpress or Amazon isn't selling something. They would be something like a VERY long end cap that keeps the wheel centered, so in theory if they exist at all chainline should be unaffected. Also something to move the rotor outwards. A Wolf Tooth Boostinator kit on steroids.

 

[linklemming]

m@Robertson

Once again, thanks for chiming in on your experience with high power mid-drives, especially the DT350 Hybrid recommendation. I did find a 36h after a few hours search and it was $$$ but I would rather spend money now than money needed to get home if/when the drivetrain broke down 20 miles from home with no options like you do with a hub-drive.

Here is why the BBSHD is going on the troll:
Troll can fit a larger Chainring. I have seen BBSHD conversions which claim to need no spacers, lekkie 42t and perfect chainline
Troll frame is beefier and will likely handle the torque thru the drivetrain better without flexing.
If I decide to go ebike touring/backpacking, the troll have more mounting options,
The DT350 Hybrid Hub is 12x142mm
The Troll can handle 135mm QR, 12x142 or 12x148 TA (DT350 hybrid I bought is a 12x142 TA). Surly is cutting edge on this IMHO

Here is why the GMAC is going on the BC
The BC vertical dropouts are just easier with the GMAC motor
The BC gnot boost 138mm spacing matches the GMAC perfectly
No spacers/adapters needed. I used the 10/12 surly adapters and they worked but it was a hassle and just more to remember when fixing a flat.
Only 2mm of dish required as opposed to 5mm with the surly 10/12 adapters. I didnt account for this additional dish when ordering spokes
and some of the spokes are at the absolute limit (too long)

Im not tied to any existing parts or number of speeds, I will buy what is required or shift parts as required to make it correct. I was just happy to find a surly bike at all.

Since the BC doesnt have the same chainring clearance as the troll, I probably wont be able to use the inner chainring position of the crank spider that comes with the erider BB torque sensor on my GMAC build. Using the outer chainring will likely cause chainline issues but I can just use a wider range cassette and just not use the biggest gear.

 

[linklemming]

Just a little update today.

Got the HALO rims today and must say, they are the beefiest rim I have ever owned. Heavy too at 730g vs the 550g of the Velocity Blunt 35. What is remarkable is how beefy the eyelet design is.

Took the stock BC out for a ride today and must say in the 700cx41mm at 60psi configuration(without motor), its a lovely bike to ride. I wouldnt mind just leaving it as is and converting another bike like a Surly ECR or Ogre if I could find one in black...perhaps next bike/build. Put on some pavement oriented 2.1 tires and it would be a great city/errand bike, easily replacing my rigid 94 GT Zaskar which is way harsher.

Last time I rode a bike with tires that narrow at 60psi was my Juiced CCX and I wasnt a fan (I changed over to 2.3f/2.1rear at 30/35psi and liked it alot more).

Even the troll with 26x2.4 tires at 30psi seemed harsher but thats an insanely stiff bikepacking frame meant to carry a huge load. With 27.5x2.6 tires at 25psi its comfortable.

So the BC was compliant yet fast rolling with the 700c and never felt flexy, I even tried some out of the saddle sprints and couldnt detect any chainstay flex. Im guessing the BC will be a very comfy bike with the planned 27.5x2.6 Johnny Watt Tires.

 

[linklemming]

Still waiting on BBSHD build parts from Luna(took them 4 days to process order) so no updates on that build.

Took the Troll/GMAC build out for a ride on friday and there was a chance of rain.

I mentioned awhile back that sometimes when riding thru even small water puddles my torque sensing would cut out and I would have to use throttle to get home.

I thought I had fixed that by encapsulating the torque sensor waterproof connector(on the underside of downtube) in some heatshrink that has adhesive on the inside. I also applied RTV
sealant all around the hole in the BB.

That was about a month ago and no issues since despite running thru many puddles probably around 5 inches deep and at speed.

The rain caught up with me on todays ride(I got soaked) and eventually the torque sensor stopped working (it always happens at the furthest distance from home). Since I have a PAS/no
torque sensor preset I decided to try that and it worked.

So I had 18 miles to contempate my PAS/no torque sensor setup. I have it setup with my hub motor to increase power over 50rpm cadence and I have 9 PAS levels going from 1000-1000watts. My takeaway is its very doable compared to a torque sensor at higher speeds (20mph+). At 25mph+. I dont think there is any significant value to a torque sensor especially with the lower power euro-based ebikes(bafang ultra might be different). That being said, I dont seem to get the same exercise with non torque based PAS as I averaged only 112watthours vs my usual of 150-200.

Came home and started transitioning all the GMAC build parts to the BC. One thing to note is that the erider torque sensing BB bearing on the drive side is complete toast after 1400miles. My guess they dont use very good seals on the drive side. Luckily I have a spare BB.

I will provide more details on the Erider BB bearing issue at a a later date (they should be repleacable with a press)

 

[linklemming]

Troll BBSHD Build Status:

All the GMAC parts are off the troll and on the BC so it was time to start test fitting the BBSHD.

All research I have found states that the Surly Troll and Ogre dont require any drive side spacers for motor clearance and thats true just barely

I have never liked the way bafang want to keep the motor from rotating with the mount that has indents that are supposed to 'dig in' to the bottom bracket so I bought the california ebike BBSHD stabilizer bar.

Took a few mods to get it to work

Here are some pics with the BBSHD mounted on the bike with/without the bracket, the bracket does lower the BBSHD a tad.

Without Bracket

And with the bracket

And finally here is chainring clearance with a 42t lekkie bling ring

 

[linklemming]

BC GMAC Build Updates:

Got all the parts to get the GMAC BC running again.

As expected, the surly 42t chainring I was using on the inside position of the erider double chainring spider would contact the chainstay so I had to use the outside position. As such the chainline isnt perfect now. The chainline on the troll used to lineup right in the middle of the 9speed cassette. With the 11 speed cassette, it lines up 1 cog towards the outside. No problem as the huge 51t cog, will never be used anyway so I just limited the derailler end stop to never go to the largest cog.

The original surly 42t stainless steel chainring had to go as its not really made for an 11 speed setup, so I bought a wolftooth 42t narrow wide chainring which will be used in conjuntion with a chain retention device which I used on the troll.

Here are some pics showing the Chainring and Chainring Clearance

Mounting the torque arm for the GMAC wasnt as easy as it was on the troll due to rear brake line ziptie mounts on the frame. I had to trim off the end of the torquearm with a dremel as can be seen in the picture. Also had to use some narrower hose clamps. These are actually much nicer/smoother hoseclamps from a miata turbo kit bought 15 years ago. They were only a few mm narrower but thats was all that was needed,

Here is a completed pic of the bike (I need to cleanup all the wiring)

 

[m@Robertson]

All research I have found states that the Surly Troll and Ogre dont require any drive side spacers for motor clearance and thats true just barely


I have never liked the way bafang want to keep the motor from rotating with the mount that has indents that are supposed to 'dig in' to the bottom bracket so I bought the california ebike BBSHD stabilizer bar.

What you are showing is effectively perfect fitment of the motor to the frame, with respect to the secondary housing's distance from the chainstay root. You could even go closer. Rule of thumb is that minimum is a business card's thickness but a little more certainly won't hurt.

I have both the Cali Ebike BBSHD brace and the Luna clone. One is a hair wider than the other but still, I have never been able to find a project that wanted to let me use them. Just luck of the draw with respect to my frames. I have always done the two-inner-nuts stack, torqued to 100 ft lbs each.

If you want more offset than the 42T Lekkie gives you, the 42T Luna Eclipse looks like it will work. But count the millimeters you have available. The Luna gives you an additional 8.5mm inboard and the teeth are longer. I have only a couple bikes the Eclipse will fit on - right now its on my Surly BFD and the offset is so extreme it limits ideal chain line to the upper range of my 11s cluster - which is the way I want it (I can still use the higher gears thanks to the extreme chainstay length). My former chainring was a 130 BCD Wolf Tooth with very little offset. The Eclipse helped re-gear it from a street cargo bike to one better suited to bikepacking and trails.

Dunno if you have seen this but more than you ever wanted to know about the HD and chainring choices:

The BBSHD: Musical Chainrings

It seems inevitable. When I build a bike, I go through front chainrings trying to get the gearing just to my liking. My Mongoose Envoy build has pretty much set the world record for tweaks in thi…

talesontwowheels.com

 

[linklemming]

Troll BBSHD update:

Here are a few more pics

California-ebike bracket mounted on bike

The Luna Wolf magnetic battery mount

The bike with battery mounted (I need to paint over the luna logo)

This luna tool I bought from californa ebike had to be hand filed to get it to work. I had to file down the three pins

 

[mclewis1]

Wait a minute ... a Troll with 700c wheels? I didn't think that was "possible" (as a frame designed around 26" wheels). Did you throw them on for the pics or are you going to ride it like that? I always thought a Troll with 700c wheels was basically an Ogre but while they look similar their geometries are different, the Ogre is more upright and has longer legs (quite a bit longer chainstays and fork to be able to run much larger tires).

After looking it up It's interesting (and surprising) to see how close the BC is with the Troll geometry wise, the BC is just a bit more stretched out, it has slightly longer chainstays but the same fork. It will be really interesting to hear about the ride characteristics from side by side comparisons.

 

[linklemming]

Wait a minute ... a Troll with 700c wheels? I didn't think that was "possible" (as a frame designed around 26" wheels). Did you throw them on for the pics or are you going to ride it like that? I always thought a Troll with 700c wheels was basically an Ogre but while they look similar their geometries are different, the Ogre is more upright and has longer legs (quite a bit longer chainstays and fork to be able to run much larger tires).

After looking it up It's interesting (and surprising) to see how close the BC is with the Troll geometry wise, the BC is just a bit more stretched out, it has slightly longer chainstays but the same fork. It will be really interesting to hear about the ride characteristics from side by side comparisons.

Good observation!

Surly bikes are very versatile and have lots of room for different tires

The Troll can run a max tire of 26x3.0 which is a tire diameter of 711mm.

For a 700c/29er tire, that would be around 44mm or 1.75inch. Those tires are are 41mm.

The Troll has a BB drop of 40mm, the BC has a BB drop of 60mm and the Ogre is 68mm

The only limiting factor within reason for the Troll is how high you want the BB.

The Troll is a seriously stiff frame, I doubt I would enjoy running those 700cx41 tires at 60psi. With 26x2.4 tires at 30psi, I hated the ride.

I will be building up the 27.5 wheels with 27.5x2.6 tires on friday.

 

[linklemming]

Surly Troll BBSHD update:

Got the motor mounted and all bolted down.

DId all wiring, alot is still rough but this will be a project for awhile and I will probably use a velcro sleeve like can be seen on the GMAC build.

Also need to shorten the brake hydraulic hoses eventually, they are way too long.

 

[linklemming]

Surly Troll BBSHD Update:

Apparently two wrongs can make a right.

Ordered the spokes for my wheels early this week from wheelbuilder.com. The DT Swiss 350 Hybrid 36h Rear Hub had larger than usual spoke holes at 2.8mm so instead of using straight gauge 13g spoke, I opted for Sapim E-Strong 12g/13g single butted spokes for the rear in 272mm and Sapim E-Leader 13g 268mm in the front.

First problem was the J bend of the E-Strong spokes dont fit into the spoke holes in the ST swiss hub. Second problem was that I used 32hole for the spoke length calculator so the rear spokes were too long.

By a stroke of luck, the front spoke length I ordered actually works for the rear so I started building the rear wheelset.

I usually watch youtube vidoes on wheelbuilding and have watched this video many times as i have built wheels

Due to stiffness, these 13g spokes were hard to get in position on the second side using his methods so I thought I knew better and took a different path and modified his technique slightly. It took over an hour to lace the wheel.

Without going onto details, this was totally incorrect. After an 2 hours of trying to lace the wheel and true, I gave up. Many spokes were way to long and many were two short.

So I followed this video instead

10 times easier, I laced the wheel in 15 minutes and had it true within an hour and no spoke length discrepancies

Just need to reorder another set of front wheel spokes (by chance, all the spokes are the same length.