I am in the market for an Ebike. I was set on the Juiced CCX but have to look for a different brand (customer service non responsive). So as Im looking at other Ebikes I notice some have 250 w motors some go all the way up to 750w. I even read a thread where some 750 motors are really 500w motors (as in the case of RadPower bikes). But I am seeing a lot of name brand bikes from $2000 up with motors as low as 250 w. And yet they all say they can get to 20 mph and they can go at least 50 miles approx. The strange thing is that I see some bikes that sell for over $2000 with 250w motors compared to some below $20000 that have 750W. So can someone break down how the wattage affects the motor and thus the speed or distance thanks
Motor wattage differences question
- Thread starter Cassidy
- Start date
Timpo thanks again, so I should not equate higher wattage to more power, if its a mid drive motor. If it's a mid drive motor that is 250 watt that would say for example be approx the same as far as speed and time as a 750 watt rear hub motor? Im just trying to get an idea if I decide to go to a mid drive and pay more if it will have the same power/speed concerns.
rich c
Well-Known Member
If both mid drive or hub motor are limited to 28 mph, they both go 28mph no matter what the motor rating is. Now if you want an eBike to get there faster, get higher voltage batteries and a higher capacity controller. For me, ride characteristics between mid drives and hub drives differs in rider feel. Torque sensors in mid drives are very smooth. Instant assist as you move the pedal. Fantastic on mountain bikes that are actually used on trails. Wonderful for climbing. Cadence sensors on hub drives are more like on and off switches. Cadence sensors have a delay in starting and also power continues after you stop pedaling unless there is a motor interruptor in the brake.
Timpo thanks again. yes I too am trying to keep costs low. $2500 I think would be the max. The CCX is the closest I found to what I wanted but they are not available now I heard not until August (but not sure, it's like pulling teeth to get answers). I also read about the way you feel from a rear hub motor, like you are being pushed. If you have any ideas for another Brand let me know (close to same specs as CCX) Thanks again for taking the time to respond 
Very good advice.
Very good advice.
rich c
Well-Known Member
It’s my experience that the evil mid drive chain snapping is a folk tale. I’m sure others have different experiences, but not me. I have two Haibikes with Bosch performance motors with 28mph limits. I changed the chains at 2,500 miles on each. The cassettes were in great shape since the chain gauge just barely dropped in. In the same vein, you’ll see suggestions that you always buy a throttle so you can get home when a chain breaks. I haven’t broken a chain with a cumulative total of 8,000 miles. So neither of these “concerns” are a certainty.
Thanks Rich the Haibikes look good but are over my budget
but it's good to know about the chain and mid drive
rich c
Well-Known Member
I paid $2800 for my XDURO Full Seven S RX mtb with 150 demo miles, and $2600 for my XDURO Trekking S RX in the winter as a previous model year. A lot of folks can afford a Haibike, as long as you don't buy it in prime riding season. Right now is a tough time to find a deal!Thanks Rich the Haibikes look good but are over my budget
This looks great Ill check out the videos are they a well known brand?
Captain Slow
Well-Known Member
and I have a Juiced CCS and I had to replace the rear cassette and chain at 5,000 km's or roughly 3,100 miles. So I didn't have much more mileage on my hub drive and had to replace the drivetrain as I was getting poor shifting performance. I probably should have changed the chain at around 1,000 miles and 2,000 miles and my cassette likely would have lasted longer.
ilanarama
Member
There are also a few mid-drives with belts rather than chain, for longer life and lower maintenance. I have the Priority Embark ($3000 from Costco, a little out of your budget) which has the Gates carbon drive, and I just read a review for the Budnitz Model E which also does (about the same price right now, and remarkably lightweight). But in general having a belt rather than a chain drive will add to the price of the bike.
AHicks
Well-Known Member
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Cassidy, I mentioned earlier, someplace, that the type power you buy is the toughest decision you're going to make (next to the amount of your budget anyway). Hopefully you have time to educate yourself. Keep reading and asking questions.
Watt ratings are about a motors ability to shed heat under a constant load. The better they are able to shed heat, the higher they are rated. The big direct drives dissipate heat easily. The gear drives not so much.
A 250w mid drive, with a competent rider, has 7 or more gear ratios available to keep it in it's power band, no matter it's speed or load. Because of that, they can get away with that smaller motor.
Geared hubs are a fixed 5:1 gear ratio (affordable ones anyway). So they generally have/need higher wattage motors than the mid drive. Compared to a direct drive, they are generally more peppy, even though they are usually running a smaller motor. IMHO, unless speed is an objective/high on your list of "must haves", the geared hub might be the best compromise of the 3 types working on a bucks spent for bang received basis.
And last, the direct drives, which are all over the place as far as wattage. From a performance perspective, they need to be fed more amperage in order to accelerate than a gear drive at lower speeds (say<15mph). Once rolling though, at speeds over maybe 15mph, they start becoming more efficient than a gear drive. Other than the fact they allow more speed, they are popular because they are simple and quiet - and inexpensive.
Watt ratings are about a motors ability to shed heat under a constant load. The better they are able to shed heat, the higher they are rated. The big direct drives dissipate heat easily. The gear drives not so much.
A 250w mid drive, with a competent rider, has 7 or more gear ratios available to keep it in it's power band, no matter it's speed or load. Because of that, they can get away with that smaller motor.
Geared hubs are a fixed 5:1 gear ratio (affordable ones anyway). So they generally have/need higher wattage motors than the mid drive. Compared to a direct drive, they are generally more peppy, even though they are usually running a smaller motor. IMHO, unless speed is an objective/high on your list of "must haves", the geared hub might be the best compromise of the 3 types working on a bucks spent for bang received basis.
And last, the direct drives, which are all over the place as far as wattage. From a performance perspective, they need to be fed more amperage in order to accelerate than a gear drive at lower speeds (say<15mph). Once rolling though, at speeds over maybe 15mph, they start becoming more efficient than a gear drive. Other than the fact they allow more speed, they are popular because they are simple and quiet - and inexpensive.
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Thanks I appreciate that ... One can go crazy trying to get everything they want. Im leaning towards the Juiced bikes now which have a rear geared hub motor.
The Rover is their mountain bike the radcity is the one with direct drive but I bought the new Juiced ccs today https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/crosscurrent-s2
https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/crosscurrent-s2I find the "watt" question confusing and to sort it all out I have bookmarked this article so when I find myself lost in the jargon I know where to turn. https://www.electricitybikes.com/blog/nerdystuff
ilanarama
Member
"If you are confused, that is a sign you are starting to understand how it all actually works in more detail."
Hee! (And thanks for the link, that's a useful article. Now we can all learn...watt's up!)
The Rover is their mountain bike the radcity is the one with direct drive but I bought the new Juiced ccs today
I'm very interested in how you like your CCS! Juiced are on my list but they seem very hard to reach. Let us know what you think and congrats! Enjoy your bike
Paul I too mentioned they were hard to reach. They did get back to me and said that it's one person handling the sales questions but they have a staff that deals with issues after you purchased the bike. On their web page it showed the ccs was no longer available. But in this forum I was alerted to a new ccs 2 model which was $700 less than the ccx and included free fenders and rack (in the link above), in fact im not sure it was listed on their usa website ...So I contacted them and had a few questions and they said basically the differences in ccx are tires and maybe distance (they are offering free fenders and rack on this first run). So once I saw that I ordered. It only comes in Matte Black thoughI'm very interested in how you like your CCS! Juiced are on my list but they seem very hard to reach. Let us know what you think and congrats! Enjoy your bike
AHicks
Well-Known Member
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- USA
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- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Sounds like they may be downplaying the difference between a 20ah battery on the CCX vs. the 13ah battery on the CCS you purchased. That's a big deal though, only on trips of 20 miles or more, where you are using a lot of battery power. Examples might be riding into a healthy wind, riding a soft surfaces a lot, lots of hills, at speeds toward the top of the bikes capabilities, etc. I think most of us can get along well with the 13ah.
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