Mahle X20

Captain Slow · Apr 27, 2022

I did see there were some threads about something else that referenced the Mahle X20 but no threads on it.

X20 System - MAHLE Smartbike Systems

X20 System The System Components Video The new revolution has arrived X20 System: The lightest and smartest eBike rear hub system on the market Watch the Video X20, the new milestone in the smartbike industry Ultracompact, light and smart system that creates a full range of new riding...

mahle-smartbike.com

I'm quite excited about this system. I suppose most of this forum tend to like higher power motors and bigger batteries, but I prefer lightweight systems that provide a bit of assistance as that's all I need when I want some.

What I really like about this hub motor system is that it uses a thru axle and this makes it easy to change a flat while you're out on the road. Really no different than a non-motorized bike. To me that's a huge plus. I previously was biased towards mid-drive primarily because of this issue. I don't want to be 40-50 km's from home with a flat tire and not be able to easily change it. So for me this new system is a game changer and wow is it ever light.

Scott has already released a bike, albeit quite an expensive one, with this system and Dura Ace. They claim that bike weighs 23.6 lbs. So I can see a more affordable version with 105 or Tiagra weighing around 27 to 28 lbs, which I think is pretty light for an ebike. I think my Creo weighs around 33-34 lbs, so this would be quite a bit lighter! I'm looking forward to some bikes with the Mahle X20 system over the next few years.

Stefan Mikes · Apr 28, 2022

Captain Slow said:
Scott has already released a bike

What model? Could you show a link? Because I don't think it is available yet?
Still a hub-drive? 23 Nm? Seriously?

Captain: The most lightweight bike (your Aethos) has no motor or battery whatsoever

mschwett · Apr 28, 2022

Captain Slow said:
I did see there were some threads about something else that referenced the Mahle X20 but no threads on it.

X20 System - MAHLE Smartbike Systems

X20 System The System Components Video The new revolution has arrived X20 System: The lightest and smartest eBike rear hub system on the market Watch the Video X20, the new milestone in the smartbike industry Ultracompact, light and smart system that creates a full range of new riding...

mahle-smartbike.com

I'm quite excited about this system. I suppose most of this forum tend to like higher power motors and bigger batteries, but I prefer lightweight systems that provide a bit of assistance as that's all I need when I want some.

What I really like about this hub motor system is that it uses a thru axle and this makes it easy to change a flat while you're out on the road. Really no different than a non-motorized bike. To me that's a huge plus. I previously was biased towards mid-drive primarily because of this issue. I don't want to be 40-50 km's from home with a flat tire and not be able to easily change it. So for me this new system is a game changer and wow is it ever light.

Scott has already released a bike, albeit quite an expensive one, with this system and Dura Ace. They claim that bike weighs 23.6 lbs. So I can see a more affordable version with 105 or Tiagra weighing around 27 to 28 lbs, which I think is pretty light for an ebike. I think my Creo weighs around 33-34 lbs, so this would be quite a bit lighter! I'm looking forward to some bikes with the Mahle X20 system over the next few years.

i think it’s really interesting too. if it turns out that it can be solely powered from the removable extra battery, i’m actually thinking about a custom commuter/family bike build with it using a titanium frame and ONLY the extender battery. should be possible to keep the weight in the 25lb range and still have a bike sturdy enough for child seats etc!

Captain Slow · Apr 28, 2022

https://www.scott-sports.com/ca/en/product/scott-addict-eride-ultimate-bike?article=286538058

Captain Slow · Apr 28, 2022

My Aethos actually has 4 batteries, but no motor. Each derailleur has a battery and each shifter has a tiny battery.

JenniferA · Apr 28, 2022

There is an article on bikerumor.com about the new x20. Mahle claims that 23 Nm at the hub is equivalent to a 55 Nm mid-drive (which would be plenty for me). Fazua has also announced a new mid-drive motor with 60Nm torque; it’s also very light though I think about a Kg more than the Mahle. The Fazua website says urban bikes with the system will be available this summer. I am looking forward to seeing what comes along as I can always use another bike.

Deacon Blues · Apr 28, 2022

Captain Slow, the link to the Addict eride doesn't specifically say it has the x20 motor. Last year Scott offered three (I think) e-road bikes. The really expensive one you linked to and a less expensive model, which came with electric shifting (which I really like).
Hopefully, Scott will offer the upgraded x20 motor in all of their e-road bikes.

I really like the fact that the x20 now comes with torque sensing.

mschwett · Apr 28, 2022

Deacon Blues said:
I really like the fact that the x20 now comes with torque sensing.

yes! torque sensing, through axle, light weight…. fewer and fewer compromises.

my current dream city bike build is a custom Ti frame with a pinion gearbox, belt drive, 25mm carbon rims and 42mm tubeless tires, carbon fork and bars, the x20 hub motor and a 160wh bottle battery. i’m thinking without the bottle battery it could be as little as 22lb, maybe 25lb with the battery, but still sturdy enough for a significant amount of cargo (or a 4 year old!) and some spirited off road use.

Stefan Mikes · Apr 28, 2022

Oh, really?

mschwett · Apr 28, 2022

Stefan Mikes said:
View attachment 121655
Oh, really?

not a surprising choice for a small rear hub intended to be used on bike infrastructure in europe and north america! i have a class 3 and a class 1 bike, and truly it makes almost no difference when riding in the city.

Stefan Mikes · Apr 28, 2022

mschwett said:
not a surprising choice for a small rear hub intended to be used on bike infrastructure in europe and north america! i have a class 3 and a class 1 bike, and truly it makes almost no difference when riding in the city.

A 20 mph road e-bike for the United States?! Yes I understand the 32 km/h for Canada and 25 km/h for Europe (that is, I do not understand 25 km/h for Europe on a road e-bike but let us leave that aside...) A Class 1 road e-bike for the U.S.?!

JenniferA said:
Mahle claims that 23 Nm at the hub is equivalent to a 55 Nm mid-drive (which would be plenty for me).

Unless you start climbing.

mschwett · Apr 28, 2022

Stefan Mikes said:
A 20 mph road e-bike for the United States?! Yes I understand the 32 km/h for Canada and 25 km/h for Europe (that is, I do not understand 25 km/h for Europe on a road e-bike but let us leave that aside...) A Class 1 road e-bike for the U.S.?!

Unless you start climbing.

i’m not talking about a roadie e-bike, i’m talking about a city e-bike. lightweight, flexible, comfortable. class 1 is fine and allows the use of all bike infrastructure. unlike class 3.

a true roadie goes >20 without a motor anyway

Stefan Mikes · Apr 28, 2022

mschwett said:
i’m not talking about a roadie e-bike, i’m talking about a city e-bike. lightweight, flexible, comfortable. class 1 is fine and allows the use of all bike infrastructure. unlike class 3.

Pinch me. Isn't Scott Addict eRide a road e-bike?

mschwett said:
a true roadie goes >20 without a motor anyway

Unless he's rather old, his knees are creaking, his cardio cannot go up etc.
Mark: "You are too young to be King Herod" as a Polish saying goes

mschwett · Apr 28, 2022

Stefan Mikes said:
Pinch me. Isn't Scott Addict eRide a road e-bike?

true! i was referring to the motor in general, per the thread title. didn’t realize your snip was from a specific bike. personally, i’m not sure i’d care much on a 250w motor like this, although many will. practically speaking the difference is a few MPH over a ride given that the motor isn’t powerful enough to be going 28 anyway.

Deacon Blues · Apr 29, 2022

I must keep repeating to myself.....I don't need another bike, I don't need another bike,I don't need another bike, I don't need another bike...........

Stefan Mikes · Apr 29, 2022

Deacon Blues said:
I must keep repeating to myself.....I don't need another bike, I don't need another bike,I don't need another bike, I don't need another bike...........

That reminds me the late 2000s. I was active in a guitar Forum, and showed a picture of my beloved electric guitar and and amp. The photo included the TV set that was dusty a little bit. Someone commented: "Why should he need the TV if he already owns a guitar?"

Let me help you Deacon: "Why should you need anything else if you already own a Creo?"

A hub-drive motor will remain a hub-drive motor even with the torque sensor! And... did you read the bitching of Mahle X users about the Mahle e-bike app?

Deacon Blues · Apr 30, 2022

I own a Lefty 3, not a Creo, but I hear what you're saying about problems with the Mahle setup.

mschwett · Apr 30, 2022

Deacon Blues said:
I own a Lefty 3, not a Creo, but I hear what you're saying about problems with the Mahle setup.

for the use case i have in mind, a crappy app is of no concern! nor is hub drive a problem, it’s actually an advantage because i can use a pinion, which i’ve been dying to try out.

Deacon Blues · Apr 30, 2022

An ebike with a pinion transmission + belt drive + hub motor would definitely be something I'd be interested in. I think there are some European builders that offer this combo, but I have yet to see anything like this combo offered in N.A.

Stefan Mikes · Apr 30, 2022

mschwett said:
for the use case i have in mind, a crappy app is of no concern! nor is hub drive a problem, it’s actually an advantage because i can use a pinion, which i’ve been dying to try out.

No
You ride an Aethos and need no assistance whatsoever

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