Mahle X20

Deacon Blues said:
An ebike with a pinion transmission + belt drive + hub motor would definitely be something I'd be interested in. I think there are some European builders that offer this combo, but I have yet to see anything like this combo offered in N.A.
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yep, hilite and others have classic titanium frames for pinion and rear hub motor, with belt. but they’re not very sophisticated (and too heavy, big batteries etc) on the e-side. i’ve got inquires in to a few of them about x20 integration….
 
Deacon, when has it ever been about ”needing” another bike. It’s about wanting another bike!!!!

What’s the problem with the Mahle app?
 
Captain Slow said:
What’s the problem with the Mahle app?
Click to expand...
electricbikereview.com

Your experiences with the new Mahle MySmartBike app (replacement for Ebikemotion)

I recently decided that I should blow off the cobwebs off my Orbea Gain and had to download a new alternative App on my phone (MySmartBike) to connect to bike as Ebikemotion is no longer working or supported. I must say it seems a backward step and wondered if anyone else has had issues. I like...
electricbikereview.com electricbikereview.com

The deeper you get in the thread the more scary it gets.
 
I really like the bike as well. Having the Creo for two years now, it is a nice bike but I hate the single ring. Maybe for MTB and gravel riding a 1X drivetrain is fine, but for the road I prefer a 2X drivetrain, so I have my eye on a future bike with the Mahle X20 system.
 
On my regular road bike (Giant Defy Pro 0) 90% of my riding is in the big front ring, but that 10% on the smaller ring, when climbing steep hills, is REALLY nice.
 
I probably spend more than 90% of my time in my big ring. The issue I have is that because it's a 1X drivetrain you get a wider range cassette and the gaps in between gears is big. It's the big gaps I don't like.
 
One thing that surprised me about Di2 electric shifting with a large and small front ring was that the shifter will not allow me to shift into the two smallest cassette cogs when the chain is on the small front ring.
If I'm in the 3rd smallest cog and shift to the 2nd smallest cog the front derailleur will automatically shift to the larger front ring.
Weird, but I was told it does that to prevent excess cross chaining.
 
Deacon Blues said:
One thing that surprised me about Di2 electric shifting with a large and small front ring was that the shifter will not allow me to shift into the two smallest cassette cogs when the chain is on the small front ring.
If I'm in the 3rd smallest cog and shift to the 2nd smallest cog the front derailleur will automatically shift to the larger front ring.
Weird, but I was told it does that to prevent excess cross chaining.
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the semi-synchro shifting can be turned off b customized in the e-tube app.

I don’t think you can enable small-small cross-chaining though. my 12 speed di2 is the same.
 
JenniferA said:
There is an article on bikerumor.com about the new x20. Mahle claims that 23 Nm at the hub is equivalent to a 55 Nm mid-drive (which would be plenty for me). Fazua has also announced a new mid-drive motor with 60Nm torque; it’s also very light though I think about a Kg more than the Mahle. The Fazua website says urban bikes with the system will be available this summer. I am looking forward to seeing what comes along as I can always use another bike.
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“Mahle claims that 23 Nm at the hub is equivalent to a 55 Nm mid-drive”

MAHLE makes no similar comparison to its own X35 or of its X35 to a mid-drive, yet many people are expecting the X20 to offer more torque assistance than the X35, which has 40 Nm of torque at the hub. So, if you compare hub motor to hub motor, the X20 will have only 57.5% of the torque the X35 has.
 
CaptainMux said:
“Mahle claims that 23 Nm at the hub is equivalent to a 55 Nm mid-drive”

MAHLE makes no similar comparison to its own X35 or of its X35 to a mid-drive, yet many people are expecting the X20 to offer more torque assistance than the X35, which has 40 Nm of torque at the hub. So, if you compare hub motor to hub motor, the X20 will have only 57.5% of the torque the X35 has.
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Hi I have a Scott addict e ride x20
And had an orbea with 12000 miles on x35
I am struggling to find a a difference in motor performance what is apparent is there is a lot less drag
So that helps
I pushed MAHLE on the claimed 55nM at the hub and asked about x35 vs x20 I have an email saying 55nM
Not convinced
 
Dave the panda said:
Hi I have a Scott addict e ride x20
And had an orbea with 12000 miles on x35
I am struggling to find a a difference in motor performance what is apparent is there is a lot less drag
So that helps
I pushed MAHLE on the claimed 55nM at the hub and asked about x35 vs x20 I have an email saying 55nM
Not convinced
Click to expand...
I have just started riding a Scott addict eride with the x20 after riding a Lappierre esensium with the x35 plus motor The scott is lovely carbon bike and is quite light but i am struggling to get any decent miles out of it on level 1 in city mode I only managed to get 35 miles yesterday with 2000 feet of climbing.I'm reading 70 miles range but I can't get near that I'm 73 years old 12st 7lbs and reasonably fit riding at level 1 do i need to play about with power levels ?
 
Dancelli said:
I have just started riding a Scott addict eride with the x20 after riding a Lappierre esensium with the x35 plus motor The scott is lovely carbon bike and is quite light but i am struggling to get any decent miles out of it on level 1 in city mode I only managed to get 35 miles yesterday with 2000 feet of climbing.I'm reading 70 miles range but I can't get near that I'm 73 years old 12st 7lbs and reasonably fit riding at level 1 do i need to play about with power levels ?
Click to expand...
Hi
I am 61 and ride everyday
So 1300 miles on my scott
In 3 months x20
You should get 50 miles on level one without an issue with x35 and x20 mostly flat riding
The x35 I got 35 miles after 16 months using levels 1,2and 3 on eight hills every day on orbea
Charging every day 358 days a year
Battery will deterate over time
But happy with that
If you go by the app or pulsa one you should see the distance for battery for a ride this is calculated by battery voltage vs miles and is averaged out across various rides and terrain over time if you do mixed ride flats and hills then the value will change not by much
The app had issues now fixed dec 22 that this calculation was way out in the 1200 miles range it’s taken 2 months to average it down to a more realistic value of 65 miles on the Scott but still it’s too high
So will have to wait and for another month should be at the correct miles calculation by then
So at the moment a 25 mile ride each day 8 big hills very few flats I would say 45 miles which is about right
As for power motor map settings
Mine is on custom with all the setting to max
So in conclusion mostly flat riding level one should give you 50 + miles
hills lots riding 40 miles
mix riding 45 to 50 miles
You will never get 70 miles out of the either system
Only with extender
If you do very long steep hills on max assistance then 35 miles is worst case scenario
But some of the hills I do are Streep and over 2 miles long
Hope this info helps
Let me know how you get on
 
Dave the panda said:
Hi I have a Scott addict e ride x20
And had an orbea with 12000 miles on x35
I am struggling to find a a difference in motor performance what is apparent is there is a lot less drag
So that helps
I pushed MAHLE on the claimed 55nM at the hub and asked about x35 vs x20 I have an email saying 55nM
Not convinced
Click to expand...
I'm looking for a new electronic road oder gravel bike and did some research the last couple of days. The X35 offers 18Nm of torque which is comparable to a 40 Nm mid drive motor, whereas the X20 has 23 Nm (that equals a 55 Nm mid drive motor). I found the info here. Furthermore in this German video a Mahle employee says that the X35 has 40 Nm compared to a mid drive motor.
The X35 was invented by eBikemotion, a Spanish startup that is now owned by German automotive parts manufacturer Mahle. Sometimes Germans are a bit over-correct and that is why they also tell you the real torque figures of that motor ;).
 
eddingo said:
The X35 offers 18Nm of torque which is comparable to a 40 Nm mid drive motor, whereas the X20 has 23 Nm (that equals a 55 Nm mid drive motor).
Click to expand...
Bullshit.
It is not the torque that drives the e-bike. It is the power of the motor. Especially the mechanical peak power.
Take an 80 Nm mid-drive motor on an e-MTB with gearing ratio of 0.75 (granny gear). On climbing, such a motor will produce as much as 120 Nm of torque on the rear wheel. A hub-drive motor would need to have 120 Nm of torque, and it will probably fry on a long ascent.
 
Last edited:
eddingo said:
@Stefan Mikes Those are not my words, Mahle says that about their X20.
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I do not mind anyone riding an X35 or X20 e-bike but the Mahle quote is marketing crap.
The same Mahle makes Specialized SL1.1 mid-drive motor. Mid-drive motors gain from bike gearing, hub-drives do not.
 
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