Mahle X20

[Yako]

That is the big failing of the X35 - it is designed to give it’s maximum power at higher speeds; Mahle say between 15-25kmh. For me, I’d say it’s definitely at the higher end of that scale, just when you don’t need it! For slow speed (heavier rider/steeper hills) something with more torque is necessary, like the X20 powered stuff.
But then, if you keep riding it up hills anyway, you’ll get fitter!

 

[Russ82nd]

Hi,

I'm looking at purchasing a road bike with the Mahle X20. Just wondered how reliable the X20 is ? Is anyone else running this motor, how has it been ?

Thanks.

I've been riding a BMC RoadMachine AMP 2 with the Mahle X20 since end of September 2022. I had just over 2500 miles on it when the the X20 system died this last May 11th 2023. No power, no display and wouldn't charge. Just dead!!! After waiting several weeks from Mahle Support, they still hadn't given any actionable support other than to say they hadn't seen that issue before. After a third week of waiting, BMC stepped up and replaced the bike with a New RoadMachine AMP 2. The brand new bike also had a Mahle x20 system component failure, right out of the box. Its appears to have a defective torque sensor. With no sensor output, there's no power applied to the drive hub motor.
My personal experience with with these two separate bikes with the Mahle X20 system is two failures on two bikes. Neither have yet to be resolved and I've lost confidence in Mahle's ability to support the new X20 system.
Regards,
Russ

 

[Aivapower]

I registered just to warn people NOT TO BUY Mahle x20. I have Mondraker Dusty RR. Spend a fortune, motor failed in 40 days. Took 1 month to replace. They said motor defective. Next day it failed again, completely shut down. Labor cost not covered (170$). Basically pay 6k and be without bike 80% of the time and keep paying 170$ a month to keep fixing it is solution. It keeps failing on same road going 8% incline with 400-500watts. I believe motor cannot handle hills. Funny, because that's their main selling point - "climb hills like a pro".

Anyone have experience on invoking EU law of defective electronic device that cannot be fixed? Would love to return it and get refund.

 

[stefke]

Hi all, I own a 3T Boost with the Mahle X20 motor and live in Europe. The bike has a fixed speed limit of 25Km /h. I was wondering if I could update the firmware from Europe to US as in the US the max speed is 20Miles that is +/- 32Km/h. Thanks for your advice,
Stefan

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Hi all, I own a 3T Boost with the Mahle X20 motor and live in Europe. The bike has a fixed speed limit of 25Km /h. I was wondering if I could update the firmware from Europe to US as in the US the max speed is 20Miles that is +/- 32Km/h. Thanks for your advice,
Stefan

Not. No dealer would do that for you under the threat of losing their dealership. (They are even unable to do it because the dealer software is geofenced).

You might look for (illegal) speed derestrictors available in the aftermarket. As I do not own any Mahle X20 e-bike, I cannot give you a concrete advice though.

Stefan

 

[stefke]

thank you @Stefan Mikes for this fast responds.

 

[tinyrick]

这是 X35 的最大失败——它旨在以更高的速度提供最大的功率;马勒说在 15-25 公里/小时之间。对我来说，我会说它绝对处于该规模的高端，就在你不需要它的时候！

Indeed, I believe the motor should provide power support more at low speeds than at high speeds. Going too fast means a riskier riding environment, so staying cautious is key.

 

[jetway72]

Mahle X20 cadence sensor and Garmin 1030 "fluctuates" values.
Hi everyone, I'm asking for help with a little problem I have on my Scott eride 20 with Mahle X20 engine. Basically, if I travel at a constant cadence, for example 85 rpm, on the Garmin and also Smart Bike app, every about 3..4..seconds a value that is displayed is 5 points more or 5 points less (about 80 or 90 randomly)... in short, the value fluctuates a lot... does this happen to you too? I specify that the bike assists the power regularly...just a display problem on the Garmin...thanks in advanced.

 

[tkuehne]

I see the same thing happening on my Mondraker Dusty RR. However it's not like what @jetway72 is describing with just +/- 5 Watts, but it jumps wildly between 0 and maximum and everything in between. This is accompanied by the motor stopping for a fraction of a second at each turn of the crankshaft regardless of my pedaling. This creats a very jerky and noisy ride. I suspect that my torque sensor is defective, probably going to fail soon completely as @Russ82nd is describing. Mahle Support has unfortunately been unhelpful as well. I am in contact with my dealer to get the bike fixed and the sensor replaced.

 

[Aivapower]

I registered just to warn people NOT TO BUY Mahle x20. I have Mondraker Dusty RR. Spend a fortune, motor failed in 40 days. Took 1 month to replace. They said motor defective. Next day it failed again, completely shut down. Labor cost not covered (170$). Basically pay 6k and be without bike 80% of the time and keep paying 170$ a month to keep fixing it is solution. It keeps failing on same road going 8% incline with 400-500watts. I believe motor cannot handle hills. Funny, because that's their main selling point - "climb hills like a pro".

Anyone have experience on invoking EU law of defective electronic device that cannot be fixed? Would love to return it and get refund. View attachment 158615

Just to update. It has been almost 6 months since my last ride and bike is still broken. I could only use it for 4 weeks total after buying. At this rate, I will run out of warranty before it's fixed. Not to mention I will be afraid to cycle far away from home.

After 6 weeks they finally send the bike back with replaced motor (again), battery and bottom bracket. However, rear derailleur is scratched and damaged/bend while rear brakes rubbing a lot. They were working fine when I have send it for repair. How Mondraker managed to damage it is beyond me.

On another note, I told them from day 1 that I feel a lot of vibration in gears, especially bottom bracket during cycling. I was told its fine and Reddit suggested its normal for Rival components. But I am starting to think it could have been reason for motor failures since a lot of wires, and sensors are there?

 

[Aivapower]

I see the same thing happening on my Mondraker Dusty RR. However it's not like what @jetway72 is describing with just +/- 5 Watts, but it jumps wildly between 0 and maximum and everything in between. This is accompanied by the motor stopping for a fraction of a second at each turn of the crankshaft regardless of my pedaling. This creats a very jerky and noisy ride. I suspect that my torque sensor is defective, probably going to fail soon completely as @Russ82nd is describing. Mahle Support has unfortunately been unhelpful as well. I am in contact with my dealer to get the bike fixed and the sensor replaced.

Exactly what I experienced on my second time riding it from new. It broke 2 rides later. Repaired, then broke next ride. Repaired, now broke again. Total rode 6 times from new in 7 months. My watts been jumping randomly up and down as well.

Do you feel vibration in bottom bracket when cycling in higher gears (small cog)? It might be sensors, since replacing motor did not fix it. Better solution might be to replace sensors and bottom bracket. It might be Mondraker incompetence rather than Mahle quality.

 

[tkuehne]

No, I haven't felt any vibration from the drive train. It's just that it is switching off at every turn for a fraction of a second.

 

[mschwett]

since we’re talking about the bottom bracket … has anyone compared the rider power readings to an actual/traditional power meter? my sense is they’re at least 20% off.

 

[mschwett]

@Dancelli @tkuehne @stefke @jetway72 or anyone else with an X20... any idea if there is a way to control lights connected to the light splitter cable OTHER than with an ANT+ bike computer or the e-shifter blips?

i'm working on a custom project to hardwire the battery-less version of the varia and a front light, but it seems like the top tube control button "fast tap followed by slow tap" method from the x35 has been removed.

 

[tkuehne]

I ended up returning the bike on warranty, since the dealer and/or Mahle weren‘t able to provide any timely fix. For now, I will be steering clear of X20 bikes. I like the concept still, so I‘ll look around for alternative light assist bikes with a Hub motor from another vendor.

 

[Bigmal]

I ended up returning the bike on warranty, since the dealer and/or Mahle weren‘t able to provide any timely fix. For now, I will be steering clear of X20 bikes. I like the concept still, so I‘ll look around for alternative light assist bikes with a Hub motor from another vendor.

I bought an addict eride 30 last Feb. It was great for about ten months. Then it started. Riding along and the bike switches down to level 0. Shows error 184. Turn back on and repeats. Went to switch on next morning and won’t light up. Plugged in charger and it started but lights began to rotate from top to bottom and back like a disco. Useless. Took 70 miles to shop and left it. Got it back and told they couldn’t identify the issue and Mahle said I needed to take it away and see what happened? Did that and it started it again after a couple of rides. Took back to shop. After six weeks I was told they had changed the battery and would be ok. Then told it wasn’t working yet and needed a new bb pas sensor unit. Got it back on Tue. Seemed ok till I tried it and was back to switching power off and good old error 184. It’s now on its way back to shop who have said it’s going back to Scott to see what they will do. Almost £5k and I’m the one with now bike etc..

 

[tkuehne]

Really sad. It could be such a great product, but with the failures and no obvious solutions and apparently also no cummunication from Mahle to dealers via a service bulleting and a program to quickly fix the issues for affected customers, I think I will stay away from all X20 bikes, even though they would cover my use case perfectly.

 

[mschwett]

I bought an addict eride 30 last Feb. It was great for about ten months. Then it started. Riding along and the bike switches down to level 0. Shows error 184. Turn back on and repeats. Went to switch on next morning and won’t light up. Plugged in charger and it started but lights began to rotate from top to bottom and back like a disco. Useless. Took 70 miles to shop and left it. Got it back and told they couldn’t identify the issue and Mahle said I needed to take it away and see what happened? Did that and it started it again after a couple of rides. Took back to shop. After six weeks I was told they had changed the battery and would be ok. Then told it wasn’t working yet and needed a new bb pas sensor unit. Got it back on Tue. Seemed ok till I tried it and was back to switching power off and good old error 184. It’s now on its way back to shop who have said it’s going back to Scott to see what they will do. Almost £5k and I’m the one with now bike etc..

that sucks! how many miles on the bike?

 

[Bigmal]

that sucks! how many miles on the bike?

Not sure but used it every week. It’s also been a bit noisy compared to my others.
Still no word back from Scott/shop