MAHLE X35 vs X20 motor, scott addict e-ride 20, and orbea m20

[Deleted member 46571]

Hi all
so Wanted to pass on my obeservation and experiance on 3 bike and x35 and x20 motors
and welcome some feedback
Orbea D50 x35 medium frame, 16kg, marthon + tyres (not light but no puntures at all), did 5200 miles in a year no issues, then Orbea m20 small frame 13.5 kg 7200 miles again M+ tyres no punctures, no issues, never had a motor issue or app issue, with either, did around 25 miles a day about 345 days a year all weathers, brilliant system a joy to ride
just got scott addict e-ride 20 12.3 kg with mudgards lights Swab pro ones, ride 4 times now on 125 miles
so there is the premise
preformance from D50 to M20, what a difference basically down to the weight saving different ride much quicker on the flat
so the scott medium frame, lighter bike a big difference from M20 NO
scott is a different bike different gearing, bigger frame, lighter tyres, if i took the M+ and the slime inner tubes off the M20 i would loose 1 to 1.5 kg
so comparable weight against the scott, also the x35 motor has a lot of drag they say it transparent its not the reduction gogs give it about 1 kg drag
what noticable with the x20 motor is there is a lot less drag, nice, is it drag less not sure but a big difference
so to the question
is the x20 motor more powerfull have more pull than the x35, MAHlE say its 55nm, but comapre it to a mid drive motor and quote loses across the drive train for mid drive motors that true but , smoke and mirrors
why not give values x35 vs x20 i have seen infomation on the web that x20 torque is less than x35, 23nm X20 vs 40nm x35, so where is the truth
well x20 is lighter by 200 - 300 grams and has less drag so with more torque there should be significantly have more pulling power and my scott is lighter
but because my orbea has M+ tyres on it difficult to asses one against another, my view is that there is not much difference and thats strange as
i have a lighter bike, mainly due to tyre difference lighter motor and battery i have SRAM rival digital gears which is heavier than M20 ulterga mech i think
Scott does feel a bit quicker, as it should, but its early days yet still assesing, but its marginal, but the scott is a nice ride
i complete the same route with 8 big hills to try to comapare one on one systems
as a electronic and mechanical engineer i know how this system works, to produce a smaller motor with more torque is difficult, but possible
but i am suspicious when a munfacture does not comapre its own motors against each other, but defelect and compare to a mid drive instead
so in conclusion preformance wise is the x20 better than the x35 note (on D50 and M20) it was the x35 version, not the x35+which is better agian
jury is still out it is noticable, i was expecting a big difference, but its not, also the peddle torque and AI is it required, NO, i had no complaint with the x35 worked perfectly for me
i will let you all know after a couple of months my thoughts on the Scott and x20 motor
one thing more the apps "ebike motion" and "mybike" worked perfectly for me on x35, on the x20 its a nightmare, MAHLE relaeasing an unfinished product to early

 

[Deacon Blues]

When you say Scott eadict, do you mean Addict?

 

[Deleted member 46571]

When you say Scott eadict, do you mean Addict?

yes a few typo's, ok to use it correct name scott addict e ride

 

[Joi]

@Dave the panda interested to hear your thoughts after a few months. X20 bikes are still almost non-existent here, but there are some other similar Taiwanese branded setups (hub motor + torque sensor) being sold by Trek and such. Would you go back to the cadence sensor X35 setup having owned the X20?

 

[Deleted member 46571]

@Dave the panda interested to hear your thoughts after a few months. X20 bikes are still almost non-existent here, but there are some other similar Taiwanese branded setups (hub motor + torque sensor) being sold by Trek and such. Would you go back to the cadence sensor X35 setup having owned the X20?

Hi
Here are my thoughts
My Scott has had 2 faults in just over 2 months I am so dissatisfied
This is not a cheap bike
I had a rear hub had issues where a spring had broken on freewheeling hub it was turning the pedals
issues now fixed
The torque sensor has failed on New Year’s Day causing no motor drive at all due to new year and holidays still not fixed waiting for MAHLE to send part to dealer
So a bike only 800 miles just over 2 months old and is not working
Not including the the firmware and app issues they have had
So as to you question
I had no issues on x35 for 12000 miles
for me the torques sensor on the x20 and pedal sensor too now is not required the x35 worked perfectly the torque sensor was driven by customer demand and critics but it in my opinion is not required it is something else to go wrong and it my case has and adds no value to the system and adds weight too
The x20 has been brought to the market too early and has lots of issues
So the advantages are
rear wheel removal easier yes but I had no issues with the x35
a bit more torque but hardly noticeable
Much less drag on the rear wheel
So I would wait don’t be in a rush to upgrade very little difference
For me the x20 is over complicated
And over engineered
The x35 was great wait for them to iron out the bugs in the x20
But the drag on the x35 rear wheel drive was an issue
So for me the MAHLE system is the one for me due to weight vs power output and I like rear wheel drive and the x20 is the way forward
But as you say there are other systems out there
Would I go back to x35 vs x20
Hmm tricky
No because of the rear wheel drag
But there are pros and cons to stick to x35 vs upgrade to x 20

 

[Moss]

Hi all
so Wanted to pass on my obeservation and experiance on 3 bike and x35 and x20 motors
and welcome some feedback
Orbea D50 x35 medium frame, 16kg, marthon + tyres (not light but no puntures at all), did 5200 miles in a year no issues, then Orbea m20 small frame 13.5 kg 7200 miles again M+ tyres no punctures, no issues, never had a motor issue or app issue, with either, did around 25 miles a day about 345 days a year all weathers, brilliant system a joy to ride
just got scott addict e-ride 20 12.3 kg with mudgards lights Swab pro ones, ride 4 times now on 125 miles
so there is the premise
preformance from D50 to M20, what a difference basically down to the weight saving different ride much quicker on the flat
so the scott medium frame, lighter bike a big difference from M20 NO
scott is a different bike different gearing, bigger frame, lighter tyres, if i took the M+ and the slime inner tubes off the M20 i would loose 1 to 1.5 kg
so comparable weight against the scott, also the x35 motor has a lot of drag they say it transparent its not the reduction gogs give it about 1 kg drag
what noticable with the x20 motor is there is a lot less drag, nice, is it drag less not sure but a big difference
so to the question
is the x20 motor more powerfull have more pull than the x35, MAHlE say its 55nm, but comapre it to a mid drive motor and quote loses across the drive train for mid drive motors that true but , smoke and mirrors
why not give values x35 vs x20 i have seen infomation on the web that x20 torque is less than x35, 23nm X20 vs 40nm x35, so where is the truth
well x20 is lighter by 200 - 300 grams and has less drag so with more torque there should be significantly have more pulling power and my scott is lighter
but because my orbea has M+ tyres on it difficult to asses one against another, my view is that there is not much difference and thats strange as
i have a lighter bike, mainly due to tyre difference lighter motor and battery i have SRAM rival digital gears which is heavier than M20 ulterga mech i think
Scott does feel a bit quicker, as it should, but its early days yet still assesing, but its marginal, but the scott is a nice ride
i complete the same route with 8 big hills to try to comapare one on one systems
as a electronic and mechanical engineer i know how this system works, to produce a smaller motor with more torque is difficult, but possible
but i am suspicious when a munfacture does not comapre its own motors against each other, but defelect and compare to a mid drive instead
so in conclusion preformance wise is the x20 better than the x35 note (on D50 and M20) it was the x35 version, not the x35+which is better agian
jury is still out it is noticable, i was expecting a big difference, but its not, also the peddle torque and AI is it required, NO, i had no complaint with the x35 worked perfectly for me
i will let you all know after a couple of months my thoughts on the Scott and x20 motor
one thing more the apps "ebike motion" and "mybike" worked perfectly for me on x35, on the x20 its a nightmare, MAHLE relaeasing an unfinished product to early

Hi Dave, I'm a new member!! Loved reading your article on the comparison of the X20 and X35 hub motors, can you tell me when the X35 + came out on the Orbea? and how would you know if you were buying ? Thanks

 

[Deleted member 46571]

Hi Dave, I'm a new member!! Loved reading your article on the comparison of the X20 and X35 hub motors, can you tell me when the X35 + came out on the Orbea? and how would you know if you were buying ? Thanks

Hi moss
I had the x35 not the x35+
The x35 I think came out in 2019
The x35+ a year later so late 2020 I think
You will know as on the body of the of the motor it is metal stamped as to what it is also it shows on the app and web site it also tells you
As far as I know only 3 bikes have the x20
Scott, BMC, willer and only certain model range from each manufacturer
I would upgrade to the x20 you will have to eventually as x35 will be fazed out
although
but advantages are more torque, easy wheel removal, lighter and most important a lot less motor drag

 

[Moss]

Hi moss
I had the x35 not the x35+
The x35 I think came out in 2019
The x35+ a year later so late 2020 I think
You will know as on the body of the of the motor it is metal stamped as to what it is also it shows on the app and web site it also tells you
As far as I know only 3 bikes have the x20
Scott, BMC, willer and only certain model range from each manufacturer
I would upgrade to the x20 you will have to eventually as x35 will be fazed out
although
but advantages are more torque, easy wheel removal, lighter and most important a lot less motor drag

Thanks for replying .. Appreciated.

 

[salzo]

Hi moss
I had the x35 not the x35+
The x35 I think came out in 2019
The x35+ a year later so late 2020 I think
You will know as on the body of the of the motor it is metal stamped as to what it is also it shows on the app and web site it also tells you
As far as I know only 3 bikes have the x20
Scott, BMC, willer and only certain model range from each manufacturer
I would upgrade to the x20 you will have to eventually as x35 will be fazed out
although
but advantages are more torque, easy wheel removal, lighter and most important a lot less motor drag

Hello Dave and thanks for the reviews! These are very interesting! The one thing I'm curious about is the drag. I have the X35+ and while I notice obvious drag if I have the bike in a stand and watch the rear wheel slow down, I don't notice drag while coasting. I even went out with a friend of similar weight who rides a rather quick Cannondale. On our descents, I didn't fall back from him. Not too scientific but a practical test for me. All that to say, how do you notice the drag? And could it be that it was improved with the 'plus' model.

The best thing about your reviews - they leave me feeling content for a few more years on my M30 with X35+. Thanks!

 

[Deleted member 46571]

Hello Dave and thanks for the reviews! These are very interesting! The one thing I'm curious about is the drag. I have the X35+ and while I notice obvious drag if I have the bike in a stand and watch the rear wheel slow down, I don't notice drag while coasting. I even went out with a friend of similar weight who rides a rather quick Cannondale. On our descents, I didn't fall back from him. Not too scientific but a practical test for me. All that to say, how do you notice the drag? And could it be that it was improved with the 'plus' model.

The best thing about your reviews - they leave me feeling content for a few more years on my M30 with X35+. Thanks!

Hi salvo
Both my bikes where x35
I never had the x35+ but I think it the same as X35
Yes you will notice the rear wheel slow much quicker on the bike stand vs a normal non motor wheel
The drag is caused by 3 reduction nylon cogs
You won’t notice it while riding by the simple fact it is always there
You cannot get rid of the drag it mechanical with no motor on
If you don’t have motor on you just think it the bike weight
And if you have the motor on you still won’t know it has drag because the motor is running spinning the cogs for you
The bike stand test is the the one
That’s shows the drag
I advise always keep motor on every ride to minimise drag level one
So the only way you will notice the drag difference between x35+ vs x20
is on the x20
Spin the back wheel on x20 on a bike stand and it is now comparable with a non motor wheel and spins more freely and for much longer
And you will definitely notice the lack of drag on x20 vs x35 when riding
As for the m20 it’s a loverly bike
Compared to my Scott much more reliable
But the Scott is faster due to reduction in weight and no drag
Not a massive difference but noticeable
Keep the m20 for a while or wait for orbea to go to x20
Hope this helps