Looking For A Full Suspension Skinny Tire Step Through Commuter

[February]

My old e-bike,..

View attachment 186999

,.. was apparently built for the European market, and I thought throttles were illegal in Europe?

Interestingly, when they shipped the e-bike to Canada, they swapped the handlebar controls left to right to get the throttle on the right side, so now the gear shifter is on the left side and the numbers are upside-down .

The throttle does rotate in the normal direction, so they did install a North American throttle.
I don't know where the throttle is or which way it twists on that e-bike for sale in England?

So your Bike, is a "Jimmy" or a "Hendrix"? Just kidding. We do what we can.....

 

[PCeBiker]

So your Bike, is a "Jimmy" or a "Hendrix"? Just kidding. We do what we can.....

The bike is old piece of junk that I bought used for $400 over 10 years ago.
The front shocks were completely shot and wobble front to back more than they move in and out.
I broke the mirrors off within a week after I dropped it a few times.
But, it came with new batteries that were worth $200.

The thing is a Blast to ride though, cuz it's all over the fricken road.

When I load it up with 70 pounds of groceries on the rear rack, I wobble all over the place and need the entire 4 foot wide sidewalk to weave back and forth like a staggering drunk .

 

[February]

The bike is old piece of junk that I bought used for $400 over 10 years ago.
The front shocks were completely shot and wobble front to back more than they move in and out.
I broke the mirrors off within a week after I dropped it a few times.
But, it came with new batteries that were worth $200.

The thing is a Blast to ride though, cuz it's all over the fricken road.

When I load it up with 70 pounds of groceries on the rear rack, I wobble all over the place and need the entire 4 foot wide sidewalk to weave back and forth like a staggering drunk .

I was referring to Hendrix playing an upside down six string because he was left handed. But I digress, sounds like fun-

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My biggest concern going forward is the impending Tariff wars.

Probably something that could save the American e-cycling.
Come on! A $999 e-bike? That's a junk!

 

[PCeBiker]

I was referring to Hendrix playing an upside down six string because he was left handed. But I digress, sounds like fun-

Ohh, I didn't know that.
On a related upside-down and backwards note,..

PAS has never worked on that e-bike, but I never pedaled anyway and just used the throttle.
About 3 months ago (after owning the thing for over ten years), I rotated the crank backwards and it powered up !!??

So it does have cadence sensing PAS, but you have to pedal backwards to make it go forwards.

I'm really liking the way that works.
It suits me and my riding style.

 

[il Munduato]

Where I come from on this throttle issue: I do advocate for access to trails and bike infra for e-bikes and actually talk to non-ebike users about what they think and what they see. What I keep hearing over and over is that pedal assist e-bikes are okay, but throttle equipped e-bikes are basically mopeds and are not okay. I also see that e-bikes are a great opportunity for people who are a bit less athletic to get outside and also a great opportunity to improve mobility in urban areas without adding more cars and more lanes of traffic.

That opportunity cannot happen without widespread acceptance of e-bikes, and I suspect that widespread acceptance of e-bikes is not possible as long as there are so many throttle-equipped e-bikes around. If you can't legally ride them anywhere nobody is going to buy or sell them. For all practical purposes.

You might argue that such a rule would be unenforceable since it is so difficult to identify a throttle-equipped e-bike by eye. Public administrators and other trail users would say, "You're right, I guess we need to ban all e-bikes." and that would be the end of this story.

Bluntly the vast majority of e-bike users I see are using throttle equipped e-bikes as oddly equipped mopeds. And that is what the general public sees as well.

This doesn't even go into the obvious safety issues of cheaply constructed e-bikes operating at unsafe speed and being operated by untrained and unskilled riders. Which just makes the problem worse.

So where I sit throttles are a singular product feature that could destroy e-bikes as a category and make them a rare curiosity out of reach of most normal people.

I can agree with some points in that argument... but as stated by others, it's never going to happen. Especially since I believe that argument will be in the minority.
I mean the majority want to see some sort of ban on assault rifles, but you know where we are with that.
But back to a reasonable argument... what do you think about the points made?
There's plenty of reasonable needs and even more just acceptable wants for a throttle that just can't be accomplished with PAS alone. An ebike is a relatively new invention.. at least popularity wise, and this cycling purest notion that you know how it should be used I find ridiculous and intrusive.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Im looking for a full suspension, step through commuter ebike. Commuter means a throttle, class 3, and NOT fat tires. Hub drive and cadence PAS are preferred.

So Mango, what have you found so far that you would consider?

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I think a lot of you would benefit going to public meetings where trail access is discussed. What I see at those meetings can be summarized easily:

E-bikes, especially throttle-equipped e-bikes, are universally loathed.

I wouldn't underestimate that. Different trail user groups (e.g. hikers, cyclists, mountain bikers, and horse people) have historically not really cooperated or agreed with each other on very much. But their nearly universal antipathy for e-bikes is something new. This even when most road cyclists and mountain bikers have used an e-bike and often own one -- even they aren't very happy with the situation. E-bike enthusiasts are nearly completely absent from such meetings as well -- which might be just as well because most e-bike enthusiasts are very poor advocates for their activity.

There isn't a noisy and well-funded lobby and advocacy groups working to ensure access for e-bikes. There was for mountain bikes in the last few decades. And mountain bikers are still considered unruly juvenile deliquents by most other trail users. Again the fact that other trail user groups are willing to make common cause with mountain bikers to keep another user group off of the trails should be setting off alarm bells.

The fact that e-bikers can't even be bothered to show up to public meetings about trail access isn't good. The fact that in the rare cases where they do show up they usually make obnoxious asses of themselves is worse.

This won't be a top-down action. It will be bottom up and will happen one trail, one town, and one state at a time. But eventually I suspect the only place you'll be able to ride an e-bike is on a street. And most people who ride any kind of bikes prefer being off the street and away from motor vehicles when they can.

 

[February]

Probably something that could save the American e-cycling.
Come on! A $999 e-bike? That's a junk!

Got my VIVI delivered to my front door for $500. And I'm over the moon happy with it. Was planning on buying another bike from them, but If that price doubles, forget about it.

 

[PCeBiker]

E-bikes, especially throttle-equipped e-bikes, are universally loathed.

Around here they legalized gas powered quads on the roads but you still need a license and insurance and an off-road license plate. (All very similar to snowmobiling.)

So now the few off road trails are all torn up with ruts that are a foot deep with water and mud.

I'd rather just ride on the gravel roads.

There's LOTS of money being spent on quads now with clubs promoting the sport, so I wonder how things will pan out?

I do see quite a few quads on the gravel roads I ride, but the only way to have fun on a quad on straight, flat gravel roads, is go like HELL, and most of them do.
They aren't supposed to go over 50 kph (30 kph in town) but that's no fun on a racing quad that goes over 140 kph.

I did see one couple out for a ride.
It was a farmer with his wife on the back. They looked to be in their eighties and were riding a yellow quad from the 60's.
They were going about 10 kph.

And there's lots of people out with their kids, either on their side by side quad (like a golf cart) or on their own kiddy quads diving safely with big smiles on their faces.

So I'm not the only one riding slowly and aimlessly along gravel roads just enjoying the ride.

 

[February]

I think a lot of you would benefit going to public meetings where trail access is discussed. What I see at those meetings can be summarized easily:

E-bikes, especially throttle-equipped e-bikes, are universally loathed.

I wouldn't underestimate that. Different trail user groups (e.g. hikers, cyclists, mountain bikers, and horse people) have historically not really cooperated or agreed with each other on very much. But their nearly universal antipathy for e-bikes is something new. This even when most road cyclists and mountain bikers have used an e-bike and often own one -- even they aren't very happy with the situation. E-bike enthusiasts are nearly completely absent from such meetings as well -- which might be just as well because most e-bike enthusiasts are very poor advocates for their activity.

There isn't a noisy and well-funded lobby and advocacy groups working to ensure access for e-bikes. There was for mountain bikes in the last few decades. And mountain bikers are still considered unruly juvenile deliquents by most other trail users. Again the fact that other trail user groups are willing to make common cause with mountain bikers to keep another user group off of the trails should be setting off alarm bells.

The fact that e-bikers can't even be bothered to show up to public meetings about trail access isn't good. The fact that in the rare cases where they do show up they usually make obnoxious asses of themselves is worse.

This won't be a top-down action. It will be bottom up and will happen one trail, one town, and one state at a time. But eventually I suspect the only place you'll be able to ride an e-bike is on a street. And most people who ride any kind of bikes prefer being off the street and away from motor vehicles when they can.

Sorry to hear it Mr. Coffee. As you will never find me on the types of trails you enjoy, I wish you the best of luck on what seems like an uphill battle, pun intended. Whatever the opinion of mountain trail cyclists here in Michigan, Class 2 ebikes with throttle are protected under ADA, you can take them anywhere you can take a non motorized bicycle. What gives on the majority opinion where you are? Is it just a personal preference thing, or did something happen?

 

[February]

Around here they legalized gas powered quads on the roads but you still need a license and insurance and an off-road license plate. (All very similar to snowmobiling.)

So now the few off road trails are all torn up with ruts that are a foot deep with water and mud.


View attachment 187004View attachment 187005


I'd rather just ride on the gravel roads.

There's LOTS of money being spent on quads now with clubs promoting the sport, so I wonder how things will pan out?

I actually felt myself get sad looking at those bogged out trails....

 

[il Munduato]

The ban fear might be legitimate but it's not happening anytime soon around here. And I'm old enough to not give a fa'shizzle. The day a law enforcement officer around here gives an ol' guy like me a hard time when riding the trail respectfully... I'll probably be lost in the woods anyway. Besides... the youngin's with their unruly ways are causing the problem so let them fight the battle.
As for me... I'm gonna get myself a doctors note

 

[PCeBiker]

I actually felt myself get sad looking at those bogged out trails....

The trails never dried out this year, but they did last year.
It was Fun and Really challenging to ride in the dry ruts.

I Had to use the throttle and stand on the pedals so I could throw the ebike around underneath me to keep the wheels in the rut without falling over.
You can't ride fast or too slow either.

My tires (and I think Any tires) aren't able to climb out of the 6" deep ruts with vertical walls?

It was like riding along the wooden planks suspended 2' in the air on my mountain bike 25 years ago in the mountain bike park.

It takes lots of practice and you can't learn without falling.
(I'd rather fall over in a rut than fall off a plank in the air though. )

 

[February]

I live in a rural area and my road used to look a lot like that first photo after even a few hours of rain. My road used to be primarily clay. Oh how the redneck kids love to go mud bogging out here. I finally got a hold of our township and the road commission. They ditched our road on both sides and crushed about two feet of gravel into the road. It can still get bad, but you no longer require a lift kit and 4 wheel drive to get to your house. Not trying to hate on mud bogging(yes, I really am) but there is a time and place for everything.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Got my VIVI delivered to my front door for $500.

$500 does not buy you even a good pedal bike. I deeply regret you wouldn't have a chance to experience what a good e-bike really is

 

[PCeBiker]

I live in a rural area and my road used to look a lot like that first photo after even a few hours of rain. My road used to be primarily clay. Oh how the redneck kids love to go mud bogging out here. I finally got a hold of our township and the road commission. They ditched our road on both sides and crushed about two feet of gravel into the road. It can still get bad, but you no longer require a lift kit and 4 wheel drive to get to your house.

We've got similar problems around here, but they have to barricade the roads instead, then fix the roads after the floods.

Not trying to hate on mud bogging(yes, I really am) but there is a time and place for everything.

I used to love shooting 30 foot rooster tails of mud 40 years ago.
My friends and I used to cover each other in mud if we stalled our bikes in the muck.

Can't do that that on an e-bike though.
500 Watts just doesn't cut it.

I rode my old e-bike to the grocery store a couple of years ago when there was 2" of slush on the sidewalk.
The ebike bogged down and stalled. Not even enough power to push through slush.

It is only a 250 Watt direct drive hub motor and I was going slow (so very little torque) but still ??!!

I had to walk beside the bike and use the throttle.
At least it had enough power to get itself through so I didn't have to push it.

 

[February]

$500 does not buy you even a good pedal bike. I deeply regret you wouldn't have a chance to experience what a good e-bike really is

I rode one of the first commercially available ebikes with assist and throttle back in the mid aughts. It was my brother's. So I haven't missed out completely. But yeah, I'm in a different world than some of you when it comes to what is available. Still, love my cheap VIVI! I don't regret the purchase and I would buy it again in a heart beat. At my price point, this is what a new ebike looks like. I see some used one's showing up on Craigslist already that must have initially cost over $1,000. My day may yet come. For a lot of us Americans, surviving the next four years means a lot of ugliness, hurt and hunger. Such is life.

 

[February]

We've got similar problems around here, but they have to barricade the roads instead, then fix the roads after the floods.

View attachment 187013View attachment 187014




I used to love shooting 30 foot rooster tails of mud 40 years ago.
My friends and I used to cover each other in mud if we stalled our bikes in the muck.

Can't do that that on an e-bike though.
500 Watts just doesn't cut it.

I rode my old e-bike to the grocery store a couple of years ago when there was 2" of slush on the sidewalk.
The ebike bogged down and stalled. Not even enough power to push through slush.

It is only a 250 Watt direct drive hub motor and I was going slow (so very little torque) but still ??!!

I had to walk beside the bike and use the throttle.
At least it had enough power to get itself through so I didn't have to push it.

Ah, no hate for the mudboggers, let the kids be kids I say, just wish people wouldn't do it where they know they are creating real problems for others. Everyone has acreage where I live. A neighbor a few miles away excavated a motocross course on their property for their son. Any one of my neighbors could make a safe fun mudbogging course, but I think most of the kids are taking their mudboggers to the Dunes At Silver Lake, Michigan now:

 

[PCeBiker]

I wanted a full suspension ebike as my first ebike but didn't want to spend the extra $500-$1000, so I bought a hard tail.
(my old e-bike for groceries doesn't count. It was just a toy and didn't cost much more than my skateboard)

The next year the full suspension ebike I wanted was on sale for $2,200 so I bought that.
Then, three months later, it was available in the color I wanted and the Huge 25 ah battery was available for only $150 more than the 19 ah that I got.

Ohh well.
I still love my full suspension e-bike, but I haven't riden the hard tail since I got the full suspension e-bike.