Looking For A Full Suspension Skinny Tire Step Through Commuter

[il Munduato]

Juggernaut FS Step-Thru MTB

Unleash the power of the Juggernaut FS Step-Thru, Biktrix’s latest masterpiece in electric mountain biking. Designed with the seasoned rider in mind, this Full Suspension, Low Step eMTB combines power, endurance, and comfort for an unparalleled riding experience. Key Features: Powerful...

biktrix.com

Here's one.

And just ignore the "enthusiasts" as they search out threads to bash throttle use.
Sure you can do without... But they just don't get the benefits. I use it to start in any up hill or rough terrain situation and it saves my knees. Sure I could struggle through without but that initial force on my bad knees is felt even starting down hill in the lowest of gears and my motor starts assistance immediately.
There's tons of features that can be done with or without... But unless their bike has it.. they'll bash it.
They know nothing of being an individual or thinking outside the box to suit ones personal likes or needs. All they know is what the LBS tells them. Take for example that suspension is designed to keep the rubber down on the trail. Sure it is.. but what they don't get is that it's not exclusive and that some level of comort to riding in general is gained. A tuned to pavement fs bike can ride more comfortably than a rigid frame. Funny as it doesn't seem to be that hard a concept to digest to me. Same goes for the throttle.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

And just ignore the "enthusiasts" as they search out threads to bash throttle use.
Sure you can do without... But they just don't get the benefits. I use it to start in any up hill or rough terrain situation and it saves my knees. Sure I could struggle through without but that initial force on my bad knees is felt even starting down hill in the lowest of gears and my motor starts assistance immediately.

For all the reasons you mentioned, my 70 lb torque-sensing step-thru hub-drive is a much better ebike for having a progressive on-demand throttle. And I always pedal with effort — usually at low assist.

A throttle's a valuable riding tool, nothing more — especially for knee preservation and instant bursts of speed in traffic. In fact, torque-sensing assist with that kind of throttle turns out to be a very versatile power delivery system for an ebike. One or two seconds at a time is all it takes for the throttle to earn its keep.

In contrast, my newer 38 lb power-sensing high-step mid-drive has no throttle. And surprisingly, my knees and I generally don't miss it on that bike — except in traffic and up steep driveways.

 

[il Munduato]

— except in traffic and up steep driveways.

And there you have it. More necessary in some instances than others but always a plus to have and there is absolutely no downside to having it even if you don't use it much or at all.
My throttle use is less than 0.01% of any ride in distance and time. But I'll never own a bike without one.
Then there's even practical uses. Say a commuter wants to ride to work exclusively on throttle so they arrive cool and comfortable... but then want to exercise on the way home where they can shower on arrival. Should they be denied by country or the closed minds here?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I could see guys in suits riding traditional road bikes in the City of London

 

[Mr. Coffee]

And there you have it. More necessary in some instances than others but always a plus to have and there is absolutely no downside to having it even if you don't use it much or at all.
My throttle use is less than 0.01% of any ride in distance and time. But I'll never own a bike without one.
Then there's even practical uses. Say a commuter wants to ride to work exclusively on throttle so they arrive cool and comfortable... but then want to exercise on the way home where they can shower on arrival. Should they be denied by country or the closed minds here?

Easy to do by running with a high level of pedal assist on the way to work and a low level on the way home.

Goosing to the very highest levels of pedal assist accomplish everything that people say they need a throttle for.

 

[il Munduato]

Easy to do by running with a high level of pedal assist on the way to work and a low level on the way home.

Say you.
Yes high level of assist can be in some instances close to throttle... But it's not the same.
Again.. many ways to skin a cat but what makes you think your way is the right way or the only way?

Goosing to the very highest levels of pedal assist accomplish everything that people say they need a throttle for.

You just don't know nor want to know what the difference is. This is especially true with torque sensing. In other words you need to input torque.
How that's the same as pushing a button you'll need to explain.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Say you.
Yes high level of assist can be in some instances close to throttle... But it's not the same.
Again.. many ways to skin a cat but what makes you think your way is the right way or the only way?

You just don't know nor want to know what the difference is. This is especially true with torque sensing. In other words you need to input torque.
How that's the same as pushing a button you'll need to explain.

Easy.

First off, I have both a hub drive e-bike with a throttle and a mid-drive e-bike without. And I also have a non-electric bike. All are used extensively and I put a lot of miles on all of them, enough that I think I know what I am talking about.

At the very highest level of pedal assist, the non-throttle mid-drive bike amplifies pedal input by 250 to 300 percent, which is more than enough to get up to a reasonable speed (10-15mph) with minimal pedal effort, often only one or two pedal strokes. That speed can be maintained at (again) minimal effort as long as the batteries last.

About the only very narrow use case for a throttle I can see is when you screw up and are in too high a gear and need to get started enough that pedaling is possible again. The other way you solve that problem is with an IGH. I'd rather have the IGH than the throttle any day. In any event it is better to stay on top of things and remember to downshift before you stop.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

Easy to do by running with a high level of pedal assist on the way to work and a low level on the way home.

Goosing to the very highest levels of pedal assist accomplish everything that people say they need a throttle for.

Very much disagree. I've done it both ways, and it's just not the same. The instant power delivered by throttle with a single thumb motion makes it much more convenient — and in dicey traffic situations, safer because of the quicker response.

Once you come off the throttle after your short burst of speed, you're right back where you were — same gear, same assist level, same cadence, same exertion.

 

[February]

Juggernaut FS Step-Thru MTB

Unleash the power of the Juggernaut FS Step-Thru, Biktrix’s latest masterpiece in electric mountain biking. Designed with the seasoned rider in mind, this Full Suspension, Low Step eMTB combines power, endurance, and comfort for an unparalleled riding experience. Key Features: Powerful...

biktrix.com

View attachment 186967

Here's one.

And just ignore the "enthusiasts" as they search out threads to bash throttle use.
Sure you can do without... But they just don't get the benefits. I use it to start in any up hill or rough terrain situation and it saves my knees. Sure I could struggle through without but that initial force on my bad knees is felt even starting down hill in the lowest of gears and my motor starts assistance immediately.
There's tons of features that can be done with or without... But unless their bike has it.. they'll bash it.
They know nothing of being an individual or thinking outside the box to suit ones personal likes or needs. All they know is what the LBS tells them. Take for example that suspension is designed to keep the rubber down on the trail. Sure it is.. but what they don't get is that it's not exclusive and that some level of comort to riding in general is gained. A tuned to pavement fs bike can ride more comfortably than a rigid frame. Funny as it doesn't seem to be that hard a concept to digest to me. Same goes for the throttle.

I've no tattoos, but plenty of scars. For me, its all about Ergonomics, from the Greek meaning to work according to natural law. That's second nature to me, but it's an entire set of fields devoted to making everything from our living spaces to our kitchen utensils more aesthetically pleasing, more comfortable, better for your health and more useful, not just physically, but mentally as well. Truth be told, I love to walk barefoot in the summer. Not very safe, certainly not as comfortable, but it's useful in that I enjoy the tactile feeling of warm earth and grass underfoot, concrete sidewalks, asphalt roads and my favorite, the singing sands of Lake Michigan. It gives me such joy. So on a certain level I will defend those who would make the argument that they are losing something with suspension, partial or full. If these cyclists are getting as much or more joy out of what they are riding and how they are riding, who am I to judge? I would argue that the best ebike is the one you ride and enjoy the most. I don't enjoy orv's and never really have, its not my thing, but you wouldn't believe how popular it is out here. If they are enjoying themselves as much as some one cruising in an old model T or luxury sports car, it is not unusual to see both antiques and exotics here in the summers, again, who am I to judge?

In any event, Yeah, I'm on team throttle. It's nice to know it's there if I want it or need it. I think it's required on all class 2 ebikes in the USA, but don't quote me on that. I'm not trying to sell anyone on full suspension, I think anyone who experiences a well tuned suspension would never go back to anything less in their price range. That's just my opinion but it is also shared by wiser, more educated and more experienced men than me on this forum. The same is true for throttles.

To each their own my non suspended nor throttled brothers and sisters, you have my support and I hope we have yours as well. Lets get out there and have fun! I have just about the cheapest ebike money can buy and the people I met this past summer on bikes I'll never be able to afford, there was no cliqueyness, no contempt, no rivalry, just mutual interest and appreciation. While I'd like to be able to afford something better, I'm pleased as punch with my little China girl and when people see her they have nothing but positive things to say, mostly about the price, but there is a certain beauty in the fact that my ebike has classical bicycle components (I can't wait to put the new stem and Moth bars on). I envy the the quality of their welds, their name brand components and of course the design and more modern bars and stems of their bikes, but we're all out just enjoying life and having fun. Can't wait to see some self builds and new top of the lines next spring. Whether you are riding Frankenstein's Monster(It's alive!), or an exotic($$$$), I sincerely hope you are having the time of your life.

 

[PCeBiker]

I have a suspension fork and suspension seatpost and like them both so much I want even more of that. If I had a fully suspended bike, I would use my suspension seatpost also.

That's what I did.
I bought a full suspension ebike, and added a downhill air fork with 160 mm of travel, then I added a suspension seat post, with a spring seat and a gel seat cover on top.

I've still got semi-fat tires with 27.5" X 2.8" Schwalbe Super Moto-X but they do come in 2.4" sizing.

I never pedal, and only use my throttle, but I'm not breaking the law if I stay under 32 kph. (I sure get a lot of flack on this forum for using my throttle though.)

It's not a step through frame, and I added a second battery on the top tube to double my range (over 100 km now).
I have to stand on my toes to clear the battery and it's a chore to get on and off the bike but I have tons of fun riding it.
I ride no-hands over 90% of the time and only grab the handlebars when I pass a vehicle, or have to hit the brakes.

I can ride through 2-3" deep potholes no-hands with no problems.
My ebike just floats right through it, and I barely feel a thing.

The 20 mph speed limit is kinda boring so I make it fun, challenging and dangerous by riding no-hands.

The roads are straight and flat around here too, but I can ride for ½ an hour without seeing a vehicle or grabbing the handlebars.

 

[PCeBiker]

Looking For A Full Suspension Skinny Tire Step Through Commuter

PS,..
I've got a 25 year old full suspension step through ebike,..

It's got 24" tires and a full suspension frame, but I put new bigger batteries on the platform so I can't put my feet there anymore.

I don't know why the industry moved away from that design and went with big fat bikes?

It is a heavy pig at around 90 pounds, but that doesn't matter if it has a motor.
A big part of the weight is the SLA batteries but it does have a metal frame.
I've had it for over ten years and the only "maintenance" I've done is putting on new tires and batteries.

It was made for the European market so it only goes 22 kph and the regeneration kicks in if you hit 25 kph to slow you down, but the thing is a tank and just keeps going.


@Mango1234
Maybe you could find a similar used e-bike for dirt cheap, and upgrade it with new suspension forks and lithium batteries?
And of course a suspension seat post, spring seat, and a gel seat cover?

A proper rear shock with damping would help a lot too,..


I'd sell you mine for twenty bucks, but I use it to get groceries now.

 

[il Munduato]

Easy.

First off, I have both a hub drive e-bike with a throttle and a mid-drive e-bike without. And I also have a non-electric bike. All are used extensively and I put a lot of miles on all of them, enough that I think I know what I am talking about.

Not sure how your hub is set up but many hub drives don't have a variable output throttle which allows for very nuanced and controlled output.

At the very highest level of pedal assist, the non-throttle mid-drive bike amplifies pedal input by 250 to 300 percent, which is more than enough to get up to a reasonable speed (10-15mph) with minimal pedal effort, often only one or two pedal strokes. That speed can be maintained at (again) minimal effort as long as the batteries last.

Not how I use my throttle at all. It's not about getting up to speed quickly most of the time... it's about being able to have low PAS to high PAS assistance or any amount in between at a seconds notice and varying it back and forth between levels all very controlled. I guarantee there are hills I climb with boulders, roots and ruts that you couldn't climb with PAS alone. I pedal up most of it, but some spots don't allow with very tight turns over obstacles. A one - two second throttle burst keeps me from stopping. It's a real challenge and a lot of fun.

About the only very narrow use case for a throttle I can see is when you screw up and are in too high a gear and need to get started enough that pedaling is possible again. The other way you solve that problem is with an IGH. I'd rather have the IGH than the throttle any day. In any event it is better to stay on top of things and remember to downshift before you stop.

Well since I'm rolling with a Rohloff I know what you mean.... but you still don't seem to understand what a throttle can add. It's not about starting after a screw up, it's about being stopped and removing all the stress from my knees at start up in a less than ideal condition.
One place I like to stop on the trail to take a break is down hill by a creek and the terrain is filled with ruts. No IGH alone gonna do what I want here. I one second throttle in a low-mid gear and low PAS and I'm off at speed that I enjoy, not spinning like a drowning mouse trying to build momentum or stressing my knee at first crank.
I keep saying this... Sure you might be able to do it differently.. but at times not with the same efficiency, safety or enjoyment.
One other section of paved path I ride is a bit busted and washboard'd and this at the beginning of a long hill and just after a long stretch of smooth -1° grade. So most have built up a nice momentum only to be slowed by the poor roadway approaching the hill. I find it difficult even with full suspension to stay seated at any speed and pedaling over hurts my knees. So I raise off with bent knee and power thru with a few seconds of throttle not losing any momentum. Not because it's the only way or the best way... but just because it's fun.
And that's why I purchased the ebike I did... to have fun. Not so I could pat myself on the back on how pure I ride.
You don't want or need a throttle, that's great... but don't think that's in any way better than what others do. Maybe read Mr. @February last post here one more time.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

A stereotypical American e-biker rides:

• A 20" wheel, 4" fat tyre
• $999 Chinese made e-bike
• 64 lbs weight
• A 1000 W peak power hub-drive motor
• Has no idea what the derailleur is for...

So he/she is simply unable to start riding without the throttle.

If a European were to commute with such a contraption, they would buy an electric scooter instead

 

[PCeBiker]

Not sure how your hub is set up but many hub drives don't have a variable output throttle which allows for very nuanced and controlled output.

I have a throttle lock and I can set my "cruise control/PAS" speed at any speed from 3 kph to my speed limit of 32 kph.

I can always pedal along if I want at any effort level I want, but I've found that no input from me works best.

I pedal up most of it, but some spots don't allow with very tight turns over obstacles. A one - two second throttle burst keeps me from stopping. It's a real challenge and a lot of fun.

It's not just obstacles that prevent pedaling, I will get pedal strikes if I'm leaning into a corner on the road.
Whether your ebike is cadence or torque sensing, the power will cut out if you stop pedaling, and there is always some sort of time delay before the power cuts out.

I can go into a corner and maintain my exact speed and power to float smoothly around a corner.
Having the power cut out mid way through a tight corner can throw you off your bike.

Or I can turn my throttle off before the turn and go through unpowered.
Either way it's my choice and my ebike responses instantly.

I've been on some Really Rough trails where you could only go a few mph.
It's Way easier to get through when you can stand on your pedals and throw your bike around under you without bring required to pedal to keep the power on.

. Not because it's the only way or the best way... but just because it's fun.

And that's why I purchased the ebike I did... to have fun. Not so I could pat myself on the back on how pure I ride.

I give myself a pat on the back for every "pure" ride where my crank hasn't rotated.

I do rotate the crank 180° every once in a while to "stand" on the other leg, but I pedal backwards for that, so it doesn't count.

 

[il Munduato]

I have a throttle lock and I can set my "cruise control/PAS" speed at any speed from 3 kph to my speed limit of 32 kph.

I can always pedal along if I want at any effort level I want, but I've found that no input from me works best.




It's not just obstacles that prevent pedaling, I will get pedal strikes if I'm leaning into a corner on the road.
Whether your ebike is cadence or torque sensing, the power will cut out if you stop pedaling, and there is always some sort of time delay before the power cuts out.

I can go into a corner and maintain my exact speed and power to float smoothly around a corner.
Having the power cut out mid way through a tight corner can throw you off your bike.

Or I can turn my throttle off before the turn and go through unpowered.
Either way it's my choice and my ebike responses instantly.

I've been on some Really Rough trails where you could only go a few mph.
It's Way easier to get through when you can stand on your pedals and throw your bike around under you without bring required to pedal to keep the power on.





I give myself a pat on the back for every "pure" ride where my crank hasn't rotated.

I do rotate the crank 180° every once in a while to "stand" on the other leg, but I pedal backwards for that, so it doesn't count.

I don't know how these guys have any fun with the purest stick so far up their _ _ _
Making the rules is just as fun as breaking them.

 

[PCeBiker]

I don't know how these guys have any fun with the purest stick so far up their _ _ _
Making the rules is just as fun as breaking them.

I Can't Stand those Fricken "10-Speed" Seats!!!
I've always Hated them.
I had a 27" Raleigh 10-speed in the early 80's and I think a stick up my arse would be more comfortable.

I remember doing push-ups on the handlebars to get my ass off the seat.

Making the rules is just as fun as breaking them.

I broke all the geometry rules when I put my downhill forks on my ebike.
When I lean my bike over on the kickstand, the front wheel doesn't just roll to the right side, it rolls right around backwards.

"F" the math.
If it's so wrong, I shouldn't be able to ride my ebike no-hands, let alone plow through pot holes at 20 mph with no hands?


I think I should buy a unicycle seat to give it a try?

I'm just riding a unicycle with a training wheel anyway.

The purist in me wants to remove the whole front end of my bike to do it properly though.

 

[kevinmccune]

I could see guys in suits riding traditional road bikes in the City of London

[ England swings like a pendulum too fathers on bicycles 2x2]

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Where I come from on this throttle issue: I do advocate for access to trails and bike infra for e-bikes and actually talk to non-ebike users about what they think and what they see. What I keep hearing over and over is that pedal assist e-bikes are okay, but throttle equipped e-bikes are basically mopeds and are not okay. I also see that e-bikes are a great opportunity for people who are a bit less athletic to get outside and also a great opportunity to improve mobility in urban areas without adding more cars and more lanes of traffic.

That opportunity cannot happen without widespread acceptance of e-bikes, and I suspect that widespread acceptance of e-bikes is not possible as long as there are so many throttle-equipped e-bikes around. If you can't legally ride them anywhere nobody is going to buy or sell them. For all practical purposes.

You might argue that such a rule would be unenforceable since it is so difficult to identify a throttle-equipped e-bike by eye. Public administrators and other trail users would say, "You're right, I guess we need to ban all e-bikes." and that would be the end of this story.

Bluntly the vast majority of e-bike users I see are using throttle equipped e-bikes as oddly equipped mopeds. And that is what the general public sees as well.

This doesn't even go into the obvious safety issues of cheaply constructed e-bikes operating at unsafe speed and being operated by untrained and unskilled riders. Which just makes the problem worse.

So where I sit throttles are a singular product feature that could destroy e-bikes as a category and make them a rare curiosity out of reach of most normal people.

 

[kevinmccune]

Looking For A Full Suspension Skinny Tire Step Through Commuter

PS,..
I've got a 25 year old full suspension step through ebike,..

View attachment 186985View attachment 186986


It's got 24" tires and a full suspension frame, but I put new bigger batteries on the platform so I can't put my feet there anymore.

I don't know why the industry moved away from that design and went with big fat bikes?

It is a heavy pig at around 90 pounds, but that doesn't matter if it has a motor.
A big part of the weight is the SLA batteries but it does have a metal frame.
I've had it for over ten years and the only "maintenance" I've done is putting on new tires and batteries.

It was made for the European market so it only goes 22 kph and the regeneration kicks in if you hit 25 kph to slow you down, but the thing is a tank and just keeps going.


@Mango1234
Maybe you could find a similar used e-bike for dirt cheap, and upgrade it with new suspension forks and lithium batteries?
And of course a suspension seat post, spring seat, and a gel seat cover?

A proper rear shock with damping would help a lot too,..


I'd sell you mine for twenty bucks, but I use it to get groceries now.

get yourself a 20 ah 36 volt brick lithium battery( better yet convert to 48 volts ol' silver kick up her heels then!

 

[February]

Where I come from on this throttle issue: I do advocate for access to trails and bike infra for e-bikes and actually talk to non-ebike users about what they think and what they see. What I keep hearing over and over is that pedal assist e-bikes are okay, but throttle equipped e-bikes are basically mopeds and are not okay. I also see that e-bikes are a great opportunity for people who are a bit less athletic to get outside and also a great opportunity to improve mobility in urban areas without adding more cars and more lanes of traffic.

That opportunity cannot happen without widespread acceptance of e-bikes, and I suspect that widespread acceptance of e-bikes is not possible as long as there are so many throttle-equipped e-bikes around. If you can't legally ride them anywhere nobody is going to buy or sell them. For all practical purposes.

You might argue that such a rule would be unenforceable since it is so difficult to identify a throttle-equipped e-bike by eye. Public administrators and other trail users would say, "You're right, I guess we need to ban all e-bikes." and that would be the end of this story.

Bluntly the vast majority of e-bike users I see are using throttle equipped e-bikes as oddly equipped mopeds. And that is what the general public sees as well.

This doesn't even go into the obvious safety issues of cheaply constructed e-bikes operating at unsafe speed and being operated by untrained and unskilled riders. Which just makes the problem worse.

So where I sit throttles are a singular product feature that could destroy e-bikes as a category and make them a rare curiosity out of reach of most normal people.

That's a legitimate concern, but ebikes have been throttle equipped in the US since inception. I don't know how the rentals are in major cities like GR that have city wide rental ebikes and e scooters (skate board with handlebars), but a throttle is no threat to the market here. Is anyone advocating for throttle where you live? I know when gassers came back, there was a lot of worry over such engines and bicycles being banned, but it never happened. I did see one guy this past summer on a modified ebike going at least 30mph on the rail trail. I think the local law enforcement just has better things to do than go after cyclists. I've never had a bad experience on two wheels with the law, be it bicycle, motorcycle, Gasser or Ebike. But I understand your concerns-

My biggest concern going forward is the impending Tariff wars. The financial collapse of 2008 set the electric auto industry back decades. Popular to contrary belief, Musk did not bring back the electric car, California Law makers forced GM's hand and When Arnold came to power, those laws were all undone and out of spite GM crushed every electric vehicle they built except for the one at the Smithsonian with no components, it's just a shell. A tariff war could set everyone back, but that's a conversation for a different thread.