Kindernay VII IGH and HYSEQ Onesie shifter

[TPEHAK]

OK, Cycle monkey just responded back. They said they had issues with email rerouting and were not able to see the emails but now figured out the issue. Cycle Monkey has mostly 142mm Kindernay VII kits in stock with onesie shifters, but they also had a 148mm Kindernay VII with twoise shifter. I wanter onesie shifter and it looks like they have spare parts for Kindernay hubs in stock and were able to swap the parts to convert it to 148mm Kindernay VII with onesie shifter. So if you are looking for particular size Kindernay the retailer may be able to swap the parts if the retailer cares the spare parts to convert it to necessary size (TORQUE ARM, MATCH CAP, ACTUATOR HOUSING).

 

[scrambler]

Good to know they are up to speed, and hopefully they carry the oil.

 

[TPEHAK]

The Kindernay VII from Cycle Monkey is arrived. The Onesie shifter cable length is about 1650mm which is probably OK for external cable routing but it is too short for internal cable routing through the swingarm. It needs to be at least 2500mm long. So I have to discard the existing hoses and attach longer hoses.

 

[TPEHAK]

By the way, besides TORQUE ARM, MATCH CAP, ACTUATOR HOUSING parts which configurate the necessary spacing size of Kindernay VII (135X10mm, 142X12mm, 148X12mm) for 148X12mm configuration you also need brake disk spacer and brake disk screws specifically for 148mm

 

[hkckoo]

where do you shop for pare kindernay parts or new oil in europe? shipping costs from kindernay from norway is 70euro for everything, even if I order a single cog, that is just stupid.

 

[TPEHAK]

The cog is standard SHIMANO CS-MX66 sprocket you can buy anywhere. If you have Kindernay VII you do not need special brake disk and you can buy it anywhere. So the only thing you need is the Velvet Oil. I would purchase the Velvet Oil for next 10 years from them so you pay 70 euros just once. Maybe gear hub oil from Rohloff will work just like the Velvet Oil and you have more options where to purchase it.

I am wondering what kind of oil Kindernay and Rohloff use. Can you just replace it with regular motorcycle gearbox oil like Mobil 1 20W-50 ?

 

[ava1ar]

Anyone else using Kindernay with Gates Carbon CDX Belt? Curious if there is another compatible rear sprocket except this one. I am mostly interested in 24/26 tooth version to reduce the gears ratio little bit and make 6th and 7th gears on my Kindernay a bit more usable. Limited sprocket mount area thickness support by Kindernay makes all these options incompatible, even if interface itself is same. Looks like I will need to go smaller front sprocket route...

Answering my own question - from both my research and Kindernay confirmation, CT1122HMN is the only CDX rear sprocket compatible with Kindernay and it has 22 tooth. Kindernay says Gates will release 24t version soon, but so far no alternative present...
I had to replace my front sprocket (55t -> 50t) and use shorter CDX belt to reduce the gears ratio, so 6th and 7th gears are more usable on my setup. This was definitely more expensive and labor intensive exercise than replacing rear sprocket, but I am very pleased with the result. Now I got 20mph@80rpm on 5th and 26mph@80rpm on 6th which works great for me!

 

[TPEHAK]

I do opposite, I purchased Kindernay VII because of it has maximum internal gear ratio about 2 which is higher than Kindernay XIV or Rohloff. And I am going to combine it with 29" wheel (biggest wheel) , 14t cog (smallest cog) and biggest chainring I can find so I can go as fast as possible.

 

[ava1ar]

14t cog (smallest cog) and biggest chainring I can find so I can go as fast as possible.

Which motor do you have? Also keep in mind the Kindernay limitations for the sprocket ratio:

The minimum sprocket ratio of the VII is 1.6. The minimum front chainring is 32T on E-bike and 30T on a non-assisted bike.
! Using a lower sprocket ratio or chainring size will void the hub warranty.

 

[TPEHAK]

The motor is Bafang m620. The cog is going to be I as small as possible and the chainring is going to be as big as possible. The cog is 14t and the chainring is at least 44t so the ratio is going to be well above 1.6.

 

[TPEHAK]

where do you shop for pare kindernay parts or new oil in europe? shipping costs from kindernay from norway is 70euro for everything, even if I order a single cog, that is just stupid.

By the way the Velvet oil Kindernay sells maybe just mix of Dexron III transmission fluid and Calcium Sulfonate Grease. This is what bicyclists use for ratchet rear hub lube and this stuff (Dexron III) has same red color as the Velvet oil Kindernay sells.

 

[hkckoo]

is this a normal behaviour when moving the gearhub backwards? sometimes it feels like the whole hub moves backwards and sometimes it is just the sprocket/cog part, the shifter moves freely and the whole hub moves freely both ways, no resistance.

11.04 MB file on MEGA

mega.nz

 

[TPEHAK]

Looks OK for me. There is some resistance during freewheeling. Just install it on bicycle and ride it and see how it behaves.

 

[hkckoo]

thanks, that is exactly why im asking beforehand. i would rather ask ten stupid questions than void the warranty or damage such an expensive part in any way once I try to ride it as is. after mounting it on a bike, the torque arm moves concurently with the shifter, with the same cadence. on some previous geared hubs this was a standard behaviour, but I am not sure how it should go here with this specific hub. never had a geared hub with a thru-axle design and with a shifter that has an engagement like this. watching some videos of the installation process online I felt like the shifter could move more freely once the torque arm was fixed in place. i need to put the torque arm in a different position than the shifter is right now and if I try to adjust it on a wheel as is, there is some resistance to the process, but I can move them in different directions, it just takes some force. yes, my frame is non-standard and I know that I can adjust the position while the wheel is out of the frame, but I just wanted to again know if this is a standard behaviour before I put my weight on it and try to ride it. thanks. video below.

File on MEGA

mega.nz

 

[TPEHAK]

The shifter and the torque arm can be in any position independently. The torque arm should be fixed on the frame with a pin or something (for standard bike they supply a brake adapter wich has a pin to fix the torque arm so the torque arm will not rotate. The shifter housing if fixed against the frame usually by friction force when you tighten the axle. If the friction force is not enough it can rotate when you shift.

 

[hkckoo]

Might this be my velvet oil leaking from the hub? I have been riding it for a week now. what is the correct procedure now? How do I know how much oil is in there? How do I know when to replace? the leak is also on the non-drive side.

 

[ava1ar]

Oil leaks is the biggest issue this hub has. That is the reason they originally instructed to put 100ml of oil into hub, but later changed it to 25ml - when you put 100ml there it was leaking a lot. My original hub was getting leaks starting first oil change and sometimes it was really bad (like getting oil puddle after 10 hours without moving). Eventually I lost 5th gear in the hub (after about a year or active riding and 2000+ miles) and got a replacement hub from Kindernay. New one currently has 600+ miles and one oil change on it and is working much better - no leaks so far.

For my old hub main leak point was shifter connection interface on right side - its bottom part was almost always covered with oil. Do you see something like this in your setup?

 

[TPEHAK]

Replace oil each year or 5000 km whichever comes first.

 

[scrambler]

Answering my own question - from both my research and Kindernay confirmation, CT1122HMN is the only CDX rear sprocket compatible with Kindernay and it has 22 tooth. Kindernay says Gates will release 24t version soon, but so far no alternative present...
I had to replace my front sprocket (55t -> 50t) and use shorter CDX belt to reduce the gears ratio, so 6th and 7th gears are more usable on my setup. This was definitely more expensive and labor intensive exercise than replacing rear sprocket, but I am very pleased with the result. Now I got 20mph@80rpm on 5th and 26mph@80rpm on 6th which works great for me!

Which bike did you install the gates belt on with the kindernay?

 

[ava1ar]

Which bike did you install the gates belt on with the kindernay?

Gazelle Ultimate C380+. It comes with Gates belt and Enviolo from factory.