Is This Battery Pack for Real ($106) ??

[tomjasz]

i built a 60v 16Ah out of 10 12v 8Ah lead acid UPS cells 5s2p. Put them in a sheet metal "coffin" with a 1/4" insulating foam pad on top of plastic coated terminal connectors. 450w 60v hub motor on a 100 kg bike (battery weighs 25 kg) with a 70kg rider. 61v cruising and i got 100 minutes out of it on an open road at 31km/hr before it went under 52v cutoff. Nice thing is i get these new batteries for 'free' and can replace the pack in about 20 minutes. Not sure of longevity but i can replace for free. Not too bad if you have a rack on the back for this box. Put a pad on top and make it a little buddy seat. these batteries are about $15 a piece online. old school for sure!.

All that weight for 31kph(19mph)? I get free but 450w at 61v?

 

[harryS]

25Kg is 55 pounds. I think that's OK for a converted moped, but not for any of my converted bikes.

Congrats on the free and safe power source! I don't get either with lithium.

 

[pishta]

All that weight for 31kph(19mph)? I get free but 450w at 61v?

yup.legit e-bike in US regulated to 20mph/31km but 36 mile range. not terrible.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Thanks for the review. Do you have a battery weight yet? I have two 48v "cheap" Amazon sourced batteries - one 15ah lithium ion and one 10ah LiFePO4. My "testing" consists of riding and occasionally checking the voltage before and after a ride they both perform well. The 10ah will provide good assist for at least 46 miles with 3400ft elevation gain (two loops of a ride I often do) while the 15ah has done three of the same 23 mile loops without stranding me. I try to fully charge my batteries but often don't because I charge right before a ride and don't have time reach a full charge. Similar excellent performance from two Amazon sourced 36v Li ion batteries (15ah and 10 ah).
The LiFePO4 battery is heavy at over 9 pounds so I'm looking for an inexpensive, lighter weight and smaller battery like the one you got.

Edit: I see your spec list indicates 2kg. I need to order one.

Edit: I checked the resting voltage on my <$160 36v 10ah battery at 35v after close to 50 miles of riding with ~3500ft elevation gain per google maps. So ~40% capacity left or maybe 20% that could be accessed without over discharging the battery.

I thought I should update as my LiitoKala Battery is officially a terd!

My needs kept me charging to 51v and riding to usually around 47v...but on occasion down to 45v where the battery seem to be as advertised.
Getting close to the end of time where I could open a dispute I decided to test both limits and it seems I was using it very close to that.
Getting just below 45v if I would hit a big hill and get a sag in the 43v range it would shutdown. Subsequently trying to do a full charge it shuts down at 53v. I even tried to inch it higher by charging at 0.5a..but only gained an additional 0.3v.
That said I was able to dispute it and Aliexpress granted a 50% refund of $49. I now have a dispute opened with my credit card for defective item received.
In all for $49 (if I don't win my CC dispute) was worth the price of admission to see if relocating my battery to the triangle was worth paying for a custom build... which I feel it is.
Also in its narrow working range of 45v - 53v it performs rather well and it gets me more than my typical 20mi ride and as long as 35mi+ on the days I'm feeling froggy.
I'm assuming it's way out of balance and/or with possibly a defective cell or group so I have some large heatshrink on order and will cut her open and try to balance the cell groups individually with a bench top power supply at low current.
I'll update when applicable

 

[EMGX]

I thought I should update as my LiitoKala Battery is officially a terd!

My needs kept me charging to 51v and riding to usually around 47v...but on occasion down to 45v where the battery seem to be as advertised.
Getting close to the end of time where I could open a dispute I decided to test both limits and it seems I was using it very close to that.
Getting just below 45v if I would hit a big hill and get a sag in the 43v range it would shutdown. Subsequently trying to do a full charge it shuts down at 53v. I even tried to inch it higher by charging at 0.5a..but only gained an additional 0.3v.
That said I was able to dispute it and Aliexpress granted a 50% refund of $49. I now have a dispute opened with my credit card for defective item received.
In all for $49 (if I don't win my CC dispute) was worth the price of admission to see if relocating my battery to the triangle was worth paying for a custom build... which I feel it is.
Also in its narrow working range of 45v - 53v it performs rather well and it gets me more than my typical 20mi ride and as long as 35mi+ on the days I'm feeling froggy.
I'm assuming it's way out of balance and/or with possibly a defective cell or group so I have some large heatshrink on order and will cut her open and try to balance the cell groups individually with a bench top power supply at low current.
I'll update when applicable

Good to know.
The most recent prior charge on my btrpower 48v 10ah battery took me to 71 miles. Current charge has 32.5 miles with a resting voltage of 49.5v per display (48.8v per digital multimeter). It definitely slumps a volt or more on long steep climbs, I think I saw as low as 47.x per display on the current charge during some brutal climbs that I couldn't even do without assist. If it doesn't get too hot today I'll take it for a 22 mile ride with 1700ft total elevation gain to see if it can make it.

Question: both of the btrpower batteries that I use regularly came with instructions stating that it takes a few full charge to discharge cycles for best battery performance. Is that generally true for lithium batteries? I thought I had read that lithium batteries didn't need that kind of conditioning for best performance.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Good to know.
The most recent prior charge on my btrpower 48v 10ah battery took me to 71 miles. Current charge has 32.5 miles with a resting voltage of 49.5v per display (48.8v per digital multimeter). It definitely slumps a volt or more on long steep climbs, I think I saw as low as 47.x per display on the current charge during some brutal climbs that I couldn't even do without assist. If it doesn't get too hot today I'll take it for a 22 mile ride with 1700ft total elevation gain to see if it can make it.

Question: both of the btrpower batteries that I use regularly came with instructions stating that it takes a few full charge to discharge cycles for best battery performance. Is that generally true for lithium batteries? I thought I had read that lithium batteries didn't need that kind of conditioning for best performance.

As far as I understand it... It shouldn't need that.
I don't know if sellers just carry that over from other types.
If you get a chance, post a link to your battery

 

[tomjasz]

If you get a chance, post a link to your battery

You might want to poke around some reviews. BTR Battery.

 

[Gionnirocket]

You might want to poke around some reviews. BTR Battery.

Yeah I think my next battery will be a custom build... I was just curious about dimensions as the LIITOKALA was the only that I found that would fit.

 

[tomjasz]

Yeah I think my next battery will be a custom build... I was just curious about dimensions as the LIITOKALA was the only that I found that would fit.

I’m going with Jenny Mao and their shrink wrap battery packs. Great pricing and quality cells. EM3EV has bottle necked shipments. I’m very frustrated. Jenny can also do Reention poly cases. I’m waiting for build photos.

 

[EMGX]

As far as I understand it... It shouldn't need that.
I don't know if sellers just carry that over from other types.
If you get a chance, post a link to your battery

Here is where it is so far after today's ride.
Odometer is accurate. Lowest I saw on display was 45.x volts. Excellent assist that didn't seem to drop off.

Here is the highest point on the ride today. See the river below through the smoke? EDIT - I posted this from my phone, the river is at the far left just to the right of the small fir trees, you can just barely see it even though it is a huge river. elevation of the river is near sea level as it is tidal at this point, elevation at my bike is a little over 1,000 feet, included in todays 22 mile ride are roads over the hills in the distance above the fence post.

That was my lowest point with lots of steep long hills in between.
Here is down at the river.

I am aware that the tsdz2 is efficient but what more do you expect from a battery, let alone a $159 battery?
Sorry, I'm calling BS on Tom. Btrpower batteries I bought have excellent reviews. Certainly better than the couple reviews of batteries he sold to a couple members on this site per their posts.

 

[tomjasz]

Sorry, I'm calling BS on Tom. Btrpower batteries I bought have excellent reviews.

I just read reviews. I have no skin in the game. Knowing your well rounded opinions I was surprised. Endless_sphere reviews did not confirm good results. I will admit that reviews can be often filled with bs.
I simply suggested a closer look.

Endless Sphere - Search

 

[tomjasz]

Certainly better than the couple reviews of batteries he sold to a couple members on this site per their posts.

I do not sell batteries and have sold none here. I do help a BBSxx series reseller with customer support. That and nothing more. If you look closer at my posts you’ll see I never pint posters to the reseller I help. I’m here as Tom, not a reseller.

 

[EMGX]

As far as I understand it... It shouldn't need that.
I don't know if sellers just carry that over from other types.
If you get a chance, post a link to your battery

https://www.amazon.com/BtrPower-Battery-Lithium-Electric-Motorcycle/dp/B08FX8SQ52/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

I do not sell batteries and have sold none here. I do help a BBSxx series reseller with customer support. That and nothing more. If you look closer at my posts you’ll see I never pint posters to the reseller I help. I’m here as Tom, not a reseller.

the two members that implied that you sold them expensive unsatisfactory batteries must have been mistaken then.

 

[tomjasz]

Where are these posts. You’re very wrong.

 

[EMGX]

Where are these posts. You’re very wrong.

Those posts must have been edited or deleted by George S and linklemming. I don't see your post anymore where you indicated that you "shared" rather than sold the batteries. Do you know what the story is behind that?

 

[tomjasz]

Those posts must have been edited or deleted by George S and linklemming. I don't see your post anymore where you indicated that you "shared" rather than sold the batteries. Do you know what the story is behind that?

You are misreading. The lemming ordered a battery from a EM3EV reseller. Whom I help with BBSxx support issues. I saw he had an issue with delivery. The owner is a friend and I knew there were delivery issues with the builder. I decided to intervene and help. Sadly that was a mistake. The lemming charged ahead and did like so many n00bs here and turned a supply issue into a negative review. I sold him nothing. I attempted to help him and my friend sort a problem.

when Vruzend introduced their kits I had recently met George in forums. He was interested and I had purchased more Vruzend kits than I needed. So, I offered to share, sell discounted from my cost and I think I covered shipping. At the time I was impressed by the solderless battery pack idea. I was familiar and friendly with the owner of Vruzend and Micah Toll. I wanted them to succeed. I’m still interested in a good modular build system. I’ve purchased and sold various PERSONAL solderless kits. All as a hobbiest never as a business or for a business. I used the word shared because there were out of pocket expenses for me to send a discounted kit with postage.

please in the future try not to post unfounded accusations based on misread posts.

George in 2018

Getting back to compression packs. Vruzend seems to work, and they have had a couple of revisions. It is quite easy to check the connections on any pack with a thermal imaging camera. The hot spots are weak connections. The original Vruzend seemed to stress at 4 amps, the latest version is maybe triple that (they say). Jehu Garcia has a compression system, but it looks like the basic cell holders from China with a clean board. He had a video showing stress at 5 amps or so. Remember, you parallel cells in packs, or build voltage, so 5 amps is enough with 5 parallel sets. It’s 25 amps and at 50 volts that is 1200 watts.

AND George S. after receiving his Vruzend kit.

• May 29, 2017

Scrounging like this can work out. Here are three suggestions:

1) This might be the wave of the future. It's the Vruzend system to build packs with a mechanical connection. Micah Toll has a decent video on how it works. Toll has an ebike book and an ebike battery book, both good. I have a kit and I've studied the parts. I have some other battery projects and I like to test them, so i can't handle another pack right now. They are selling some nice looking cells for around $4.50.

2) I made a video about using Titan Flight packs for an ebike battery. I made it so I could send the link to Trent, at Titan. They are kind of working on packs for ebikes, but they are swamped with order for the RC stuff.

3) There is a YouTube page with a lot of information about some hoverboard packs, sold on Ebay. There are a lot of questions, but I have some of the packs and made a 36v ebike pack, with BMS, from two of these packs.

There is a lot of information to process. It pays to learn how to charge cells, how the layout should go, stuff like that. It's better to understand packs and know how to monitor them, as opposed to paying a lot for a sealed system with no user serviceable stuff. It's understandable, but be safe.

It's always great to help someone who wants to make something.

View attachment 16732

 

[harryS]

I'm assuming it's way out of balance and/or with possibly a defective cell or group so I have some large heatshrink on order and will cut her open and try to balance the cell groups individually with a bench top power supply at low current.
I'll update when applicable

Since you only were charging to 51V, even if it had a balance BMS, it wouldn't balance. I take it, after a full charge to 54.6V, it only got to 53V? I bet you will find two cell groups sitting at 3.5V, and the rest at 4.2V. That would account for the missing 1.4V, Paypal was good to you though.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Since you only were charging to 51V, even if it had a balance BMS, it wouldn't balance. I take it, after a full charge to 54.6V, it only got to 53V? I bet you will find two cell groups sitting at 3.5V, and the rest at 4.2V. That would account for the missing 1.4V, Paypal was good to you though.

Yeah kinda what I'm thinking... and correct, no balance BMS.. just over/under V protection with short circuit and high current protection.
And yes the battery stopped accepting a charge at 53V and the current flow dropped to 0. This happened with a charger and a bench top power supply.
I guess there's a chance it's just out of balance which I should be able to fix. As I said it does put out current quite well. But my money is on low voltage due to faulty cells and even if I do get it to balance it'll fall out again.
Aliexpress issued the 50% refund itself for "not as described" but wouldn't concede defective. I can't imagine that my credit card won't issue a refund as by aliexpress's own admission, it's not as described. It's a long process so 60 - 90 days for a resolution.

 

[EMGX]

You are misreading. The lemming ordered a battery from a EM3EV reseller. Whom I help with BBSxx support issues. I saw he had an issue with delivery. The owner is a friend and I knew there were delivery issues with the builder. I decided to intervene and help. Sadly that was a mistake. The lemming charged ahead and did like so many n00bs here and turned a supply issue into a negative review. I sold him nothing. I attempted to help him and my friend sort a problem.

when Vruzend introduced their kits I had recently met George in forums. He was interested and I had purchased more Vruzend kits than I needed. So, I offered to share, sell discounted from my cost and I think I covered shipping. At the time I was impressed by the solderless battery pack idea. I was familiar and friendly with the owner of Vruzend and Micah Toll. I wanted them to succeed. I’m still interested in a good modular build system. I’ve purchased and sold various PERSONAL solderless kits. All as a hobbiest never as a business or for a business. I used the word shared because there were out of pocket expenses for me to send a discounted kit with postage.

please in the future try not to post unfounded accusations based on misread posts.

George in 2018


AND George S. after receiving his Vruzend kit.

• May 29, 2017

Scrounging like this can work out. Here are three suggestions:

1) This might be the wave of the future. It's the Vruzend system to build packs with a mechanical connection. Micah Toll has a decent video on how it works. Toll has an ebike book and an ebike battery book, both good. I have a kit and I've studied the parts. I have some other battery projects and I like to test them, so i can't handle another pack right now. They are selling some nice looking cells for around $4.50.

2) I made a video about using Titan Flight packs for an ebike battery. I made it so I could send the link to Trent, at Titan. They are kind of working on packs for ebikes, but they are swamped with order for the RC stuff.

3) There is a YouTube page with a lot of information about some hoverboard packs, sold on Ebay. There are a lot of questions, but I have some of the packs and made a 36v ebike pack, with BMS, from two of these packs.

There is a lot of information to process. It pays to learn how to charge cells, how the layout should go, stuff like that. It's better to understand packs and know how to monitor them, as opposed to paying a lot for a sealed system with no user serviceable stuff. It's understandable, but be safe.

It's always great to help someone who wants to make something.

View attachment 16732

It is good though that you make it clear that you don't make or sell batteries but they are just a hobby. That gives more context to your claims which came across as coming from an expert in the field.

 

[tomjasz]

Yeah kinda what I'm thinking... and correct, no balance BMS.. just over/under V protection with short circuit and high current protection.
And yes the battery stopped accepting a charge at 53V and the current flow dropped to 0. This happened with a charger and a bench top power supply.
I guess there's a chance it's just out of balance which I should be able to fix. As I said it does put out current quite well. But my money is on low voltage due to faulty cells and even if I do get it to balance it'll fall out again.
Aliexpress issued the 50% refund itself for "not as described" but wouldn't concede defective. I can't imagine that my credit card won't issue a refund as by aliexpress's own admission, it's not as described. It's a long process so 60 - 90 days for a resolution.

I have a bunch of BMS. Available for the price of shipping. Left overs from several years of UPP battery buyers support parts. BMS are easily toasted by beginner builders. Which is why very few resellers offer them for sale. It’s also an adventure sorting the Chinese script labels. Not for the meek.