Is it possible to lower the PAS level?

[DragNLady]

Just got my Rad City Step Thru. I really like it except for 2 things. The battery is quite difficult to remove, I have hurt my fingers and broken a couple of nails trying to remove it. I hated the first e-bike I bought but it had a handle on the battery which made it SO easy to remove! Why don't all manufacturers add a handle to the battery to make it easy to remove? The second thing is that when I have it in PAS 1, gear 7, it is too easy to pedal (15mph with no effort) and I get no exercise at all. (I ride on level ground, no hills). PAS 0 is too difficult as I have added 10 pounds in accessories and it is a very heavy bike. I don't understand why level one is such a high assist. I would like a .5 assist. My bike tech in Canada told me he could hook it up to his computer and lower the strength of PAS. But when I asked that on the RAD FB forum, one person said that is not possible. Who is right? Is it possible or not? Thank you for your help!

 

[vincent]

I don't know but will be very interested if your tech can adjust that

this is a huge pet peeve of mine also, especially on cadence bikes - they so often have way too fast pas on the lower levels
I don't know what the point of that is when the bikes top out at 20mph
for example another bike just test rode has pas 1 running at 12 mph, totally annoying and just lazy controller programming



hope you can get it resolved

 

[AHicks]

I doubt seriously you'll be able to adjust the PAS level, but you can adjust the bike's gearing to make it more difficult to pedal - because you'll be going faster. There have been so many complaints about the bike being topped out at 15mph that they changed the gear ratios for 2019. I went with the freewheel mod, and now only rarely do I find myself in 7th gear.

See
https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/new-bike-announcements.25983/

and
https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/anyone-put-a-bigger-chainring-on-their-rover.12760/

 

[DragNLady]

Yes, I was just told on the RAD FB site that I can get a gear with 58 teeth instead of the 40 the RAD comes with. But I don't want to go faster. I just want to get some exercise when I peddle, and when it is in PAS 1, I get no exercise at all, on flat land. There is no resistance when I peddle, therefore no exercise. Pedaling in PAS0 is too hard with a 70 pound bike. I need something between 0 and 1. Not possible I guess, so I will not be loving my bike.

 

[AHicks]

Put another way, if you could install an "8th" gear that would generate more "resistance", would you do it? From a practicality standpoint, that's what regearing will do for you. You will have a new top gear resistance level, at the cost of a bottom gear you likely aren't using anyway.

If it's resistance you're after, prior to "not loving" your bike, try changing the gears as suggested.

 

[DragNLady]

If I change the gears, it makes it easier to peddle. 7th gear is the most resistance, so I leave it in 7th. Any other gear makes it much easier to peddle, which is not what I want.

 

[AHicks]

If you change the freewheel unit that's on the bike now, to a freewheel that uses an 11 tooth gear, you're 7th gear will be good for 20+mph (instead of the current 15mph). The extra drag at that speed will make the bike much more difficult to peddle. If it's resistance/more exercise your after, that's how it's done. Your complaint is not unusual. This is a very popular mod, so popular that Rad has made it standard on the '19 bikes....

 

[vincent]

You are not understanding what she is not happy about

Bottom line is the bike- and several others like it- are putting out too much power in pas 1/2

The assist should be lower, so she can cruise at any mph she wants in level 1 or 2 for that matter but have a little assist

This is the very reason I refuse to buy the new 2019 rad mini step thru until I can ride it in person

No one needs to be doing 15-20mph on a bike path for example but she will have a hard time not doing that in level 1 gear 7

I personally ride no faster than 16-17 mph and do not want to, my preferred speed on the bike paths is 9-13 mph but if you have a bike putting out too much power and in too big of steps in the lower pas levels this is hard to do

It is ridiculous that the programming is still that way on some of these bikes

I don’t know about the return policy but maybe you can return it and get another bike

The surface 604 step thru is a little better controlled in the lower pas levels

 

[Alaskan]

You are not understanding what she is not happy about

Bottom line is the bike- and several others like it- are putting out too much power in pas 1/2

The assist should be lower, so she can cruise at any mph she wants in level 1 or 2 for that matter but have a little assist

This is the very reason I refuse to buy the new 2019 rad mini step thru until I can ride it in person

No one needs to be doing 15-20mph on a bike path for example but she will have a hard time not doing that in level 1 gear 7

I personally ride no faster than 16-17 mph and do not want to, my preferred speed on the bike paths is 9-13 mph but if you have a bike putting out too much power and in too big of steps in the lower pas levels this is hard to do

It is ridiculous that the programming is still that way on some of these bikes

I don’t know about the return policy but maybe you can return it and get another bike

The surface 604 step thru is a little better controlled in the lower pas levels

This is the main reason I opted for a mid drive without throttle. I wanted exercise and fitness with some controllable help for hills and head winds, not an electric moped with pedals.

The recommendations many make here are in too many cases more about justifying their own choices rather then being good advice based on the questioner's needs.

Hub drive bikes tend to cost considerably less as most are made in China. This may be the right choice for some. Unfortunately many focus on price point first, putting functionality second. It is important to match you choice of ebike with your own capabilities and objectives.

As John Ruskin so wisely observed, "It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When
you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better."

 

[Feliz]

I hope you get it sorted out, I don't have any knowledge of Radbikes so I'm unable to help you. It's terribly dissapointing when a new bike doesn't meet your expectations. Your complaint is a common one with some brands, it's talked about on this forum often. With some brands you can adjust the different assistance levels by getting into settings using the display but you obviously can't with Radbikes. Good luck sorting things out.

 

[vincent]

A lot of people want a hub drive bike with a throttle- they CAN be programmed well and have smooth, controlled pas
It is NOT all about cost

I have a Yamaha mid drive that I like a lot but in a lot ways prefer a hub drive with throttle

I test rode some bikes last month simply to see how the controllers were set up

Just disappointed that a few years later I am still having to test ride every bike just to see if the controller is programmed well

This is a problem that needs to be resolved in the industry

None of this helps the original poster though, I hope she can return the bike and get a different brand

 

[AHicks]

PO's issue that I am addressing - "The second thing is that when I have it in PAS 1, gear 7, it is too easy to pedal (15mph with no effort) and I get no exercise at all. "

The "too easy to pedal" part. This is just not that difficult to fix. If the bike were going faster than 15mph in gear 7 (let's say 20 mph), it would be harder to pedal than the current effort it takes to go 15mph, no?

I agree that if it were possible to adjust the PAS level on her bike, she could do it that way. The issue is that's not possible.

And I'd be the first to agree that a better display/controller would be nice, but not likely going to happen on her bike.

 

[Alaskan]

This thread clearly sheds light on the value of:
1 - Being clear on one's own objectives/priorities
2 - Being able to test ride before purchase
3 - Having local, expert, adjustment/repair service

 

[vincent]

It is hard for people if this is their first E bike or don’t have many options for where to buy/ test ride the bikes to know what their objectives/priorities are

That’s good in theory but I drove 500 miles one way to test drive bikes in Los Angeles plus drive all over Los Angeles in lousy traffic to test drive different bikes

And I own 7 ebikes and know what I’m looking for

Right now if I had an extra 5000 cash to spend I could not purchase the hub motor/throttle bikes that I would like to buy because they are not on the market

Biktrix might come close with some but the bikes are very heavy and again I cannot test ride them because they are in Canada

Sorry to take this Thread off topic

Dragnlady if return is not an option I would definitely contact Rad power they may have an older controller that is different that might work better for you

 

[indianajo]

Why I bought a $320 hub kit, that I didn't like. PAS1 was too fast for bad pavement, 11 mph. But it did have a throttle for going slow. Don't use it, $320 down, no big deal.
People with the moped obsession about throttles confuse me. I only use the assist when the wind is badly unfavorable (10 mph or higher in my face) or I'm going further than 26 miles. The throttle lets me drive 1 mph on my rutted driveway.
So I bought a $180 hub kit for another bike. It has no PAS, but goes as slow as I want with the throttle. I'm building a rotary throttle this winter out of garolite stock so my thumb doesn't wear out on fast trips of 60 miles.
Buying a $2500 bike that I have to ride back 300 miles from where I tried it out (Chicago has at least 3 shops) is a non-starter. No, I don't have a car. A bike won't fit in the wife's car either. I'm not spending that kind of money over the internet on some bike that probably wouldn't fit me anyway, besides program/feature problems.

 

[vincent]

Indianajo totally get why you did the hub kit, i consider that sometimes but am not a bike mechanic etc




Dragnlady sorry i took this thread off topic

There are some solutions to this but would require some changes to your bike and void the warranty

The easiest is if your bike tech can reprogram

I dont know if this solution would work on a 20mph bike but sometimes people have changed some things in the display and it slows pas down or speeds it up, none of mine have those options so not sure, rad power should be able to answer that

You could have someone add a different controller/display that can be programmed
The cycle analyst may be able to do it even without a controller swap, but would have to be wired in by someone that knows what they are doing

Please complain to rad power about this so maybe they will change this in the future- it is also possible the 2019 controllers could be programmed different and maybe swap out with your bike....

Please keep us up to date

 

[mrgold35]

Just got my Rad City Step Thru. I really like it except for 2 things. The battery is quite difficult to remove, I have hurt my fingers and broken a couple of nails trying to remove it. I hated the first e-bike I bought but it had a handle on the battery which made it SO easy to remove! Why don't all manufacturers add a handle to the battery to make it easy to remove? The second thing is that when I have it in PAS 1, gear 7, it is too easy to pedal (15mph with no effort) and I get no exercise at all. (I ride on level ground, no hills). PAS 0 is too difficult as I have added 10 pounds in accessories and it is a very heavy bike. I don't understand why level one is such a high assist. I would like a .5 assist. My bike tech in Canada told me he could hook it up to his computer and lower the strength of PAS. But when I asked that on the RAD FB forum, one person said that is not possible. Who is right? Is it possible or not? Thank you for your help!

I have the Radrover and Radcity Step-Thru. Both ebikes weigh in about he same and my rover has 2X the torque with the gear hub motor compared to the Radcity direct drive. I really think the Radcity motor is under rated on paper or the direct drive set-up is really efficient at putting down power. My wife can haul some butt in PAS 1 or 2 compared to me having to use PAS 3 or 4 riding behind her. I come in at 270lbs while she is 130 lbs also has a lot to do with it. The Radcity is definitely not under powered compared to other Rad fat tire gear hub ebikes.

There is always a chance there is an issue with the controller or the settings? Are you set for 26" wheel in the LCD set-up screen? How many watts are shown in PAS 1 when you pedal? It should show about 75 watts until the motor cut-off of 32 km/h or 20 mph. Another quick fix would to adjust the motor cut-off to a lower speed like 12-15 mph in the LCD set-up screen if you never have a need to reach 20 mph?

12 mph = 19 km/h
13 mph = 20 km/h
14 mph = 22 km/h
15 mph = 24 km/h
16 mph = 25 km/h

Another option is to test out and lower the PSI for the tires in the 30-45 PSI range to add more resistance in PAS 1. The lower PSI will also give you a little softer ride at lower speeds and better traction on almost any type of surface. It will cost you some battery range and you will lose some high speed +20 mph efficiency you would get at +55 PSI.

 

[MarkF]

Dragnlady

I bought a Raleigh Retroglide step through. In PAS 1 it goes 5/6 mph. In PAS 2 it goes 10/11 mph and so on for 4 PAS modes up to 20mph. Something to consider if you want to return your bike for another brand.

 

[Alaskan]

The point I was clumsily trying to make was that, if making sure you get a good workout when riding an ebiike, having a bike that can do good speed without you having to put out effort may interfere with meeting your exercise goals, at least for those of us who are more prone to give in to temptation. For me having a bike that makes me do some work provides some external discipline/limitations that made a mid drive a better choice.

 

[AHicks]

Re-programing the the bike for less assist in PAS 1 is not an option. If the factory display is even capable, Rad has it locked out, and there are no other display/controllers that are compatible - yet. I went with a hub kit as well, to get a display and controller I could configure MY way as well. I was very unhappy with the stock display - on a few different levels.

Depending on the current psi, lowering the air pressure in the tires might do the trick! That would be worth a try for sure! Down to maybe 30 psi or so?