Internally Geared Belt Drives, Conversions

[PedalUma]

I have been running IGH internally geared hubs for a few years and love them. They are reliable and there is no derailleur to get bumped or dirty.

Here is one Cool Cargo Grade IGH for eBikes.

https://support.enviolo.com/hc/en-u...enviolo-Cargo-internal-gear-hub-specification

100Nm, 500W nominal.

550 pounds of load. Bike + Rider + Cargo + Climb

380% Ratio

Dropout width 135mm – Not Boost.

Works with Veer Split Belt 9-Spline Cog for retrofit. https://www.veercycle.com/products/enviolo-rear-sprocket-replacement?variant=32446008492110

Multiply chain teeth to belt teeth by 1.59 to calculate Veer equivalence. Example a 45-t chainring = a 72-t Veer beltring. A 19-t cog = a 30-t Veer belt cog. At 90Rpm cadence this will give a speed of 10Mph in low gear and 33Mph in high gear.

Last night I put a half-link chain on one of my bikes that is as strong as a belt, but not as easy to keep clean. Zoom to see the wide chain.

 

[indianajo]

Efficiency maybe 80%? Only 8 planetary sets in my sturmey archer S80 added ~10% time to my 30 mile rides, averaged over 18 trips. Compared to shimano 7 speed freewheel. Enviolo has 11 planetary sets, right? They all spin all the time.

 

[PedalUma]

ok so I followed your link...
"Max nominal power input from the drive system: 500W"
so is it max or nominal???

CVP - Heavy Duty specification

Colors Matt black Weight 2450g Max Speed (RPM) 800RPM Nominal ratio range 380% (0.5 - 1.9) Max continous torque from the drive system 100Nm* Max peak torque from the drive system 100Nm* ...

support.enviolo.com

I think that they are saying that the largest nominal power to run into this hub all day long would be 500W.

Efficiency maybe 80%? Only 8 planetary sets in my sturmey archer S80 added ~10% time to my 30 mile rides, averaged over 18 trips. Compared to shimano 7 speed freewheel. Enviolo has 11 planetary sets, right? They all spin all the time.

That is interesting. So if I understand you, your IGH was 10% slower than a freewheel cluster with a derailleur? And are you saying that the more planetary sets, the less efficient?
Is it true that on many IGHs one of the gears is direct drive and not geared?
I am thinking that if a IGH is made for electric cargo bikes, it has got to be robust. And would even make for a good mountain bike or fast and reliable daily commuter. My derailleur bikes got their hangers bashed almost daily on the train. It would be better to get to work reliably than to have a messed up bike - even if not at racing speeds.

 

[PedalUma]

ok so I followed your link...
"Max nominal power input from the drive system: 500W"
so is it max or nominal???

CVP - Heavy Duty specification

Colors Matt black Weight 2450g Max Speed (RPM) 800RPM Nominal ratio range 380% (0.5 - 1.9) Max continous torque from the drive system 100Nm* Max peak torque from the drive system 100Nm* ...

support.enviolo.com

I think that they are saying that the largest nominal power to run into this hub all day long would be 500W.

Efficiency maybe 80%? Only 8 planetary sets in my sturmey archer S80 added ~10% time to my 30 mile rides, averaged over 18 trips. Compared to shimano 7 speed freewheel. Enviolo has 11 planetary sets, right? They all spin all the time.

That is interesting. So if I understand you, your IGH was 10% slower than a freewheel cluster with a derailleur? And are you saying that the more planetary sets, the less efficient?
Is it true that on many IGHs one of the gears is direct drive and not geared?
I am thinking that if a IGH is made for electric cargo bikes, it has got to be robust. And would even make for a good mountain bike or fast and reliable daily commuter. My derailleur bikes got their hangers bashed almost daily on the train. It would be better to get to work reliably than to have a messed up bike - even if not at racing speeds.

 

[indianajo]

Well, yes, Sturmey Archer S80 with 8 speeds was 7 planetary gears. So an 11 speed IGH would be 10 planetary gears. Experience with S80 was unpowered.

 

[PedalUma]

Well, yes, Sturmey Archer S80 with 8 speeds was 7 planetary gears. So an 11 speed IGH would be 10 planetary gears. Experience with S80 was unpowered.

And partially due to the added weight of the IGH? Or mostly from efficiency loss?
For a fleet of electric bikes, or electric delivery bikes, hefty belt driven IGHs could pay off from lower maintenance and greater reliability. What do you think?

 

[indianajo]

And partially due to the added weight of the IGH? Or mostly from efficiency loss?
For a fleet of electric bikes, or electric delivery bikes, hefty belt driven IGHs could pay off from lower maintenance and greater reliability. What do you think?

Not weight. My MTB weighed 72 lb with baskets, without the tools & water. I carry 60-80 lb groceries+ag supplies on the outbound leg, so definitely not the weight. I should have been speeding up towards August as I get stronger, didn't happen with the S80. The shifter pawl failed in late August, started popping loose every 100'.
Belts are quoting 10000 km life. I'm getting 8000 km (5000 mi) out of an 8 speed chain, pedaling myself 3/4 of distance. So what's the benefit? Having a weird expensive frame with a gap?
Worst problem with derailleurs IMHO is shimano 6 speed broke axle (8 mm), 7 speed came unscrewed & dropped balls. Stupid shimano 7 speed design needs a lock nut against bearing race. 8 speed shimano has gone 8000 miles without problems. Frequent adjustment of derailleurs is IMHO caused by cheap stretchy cables. The cables that came with this yuba bike don't need that. Broke a cable on a sun twist shifter @2000 miles, new jaguar lubed SS cable doesn't need adjustment either.

 

[PedalUma]

What is cool about the Veer Split Belt is that it can go on any regular frame. Look at the link in the first post. Hopefully price will go down as more competitors scale up. I use good chains, maintain them and burn them up. I think the idea is to reduce maintenance and increase dependability. I am doing about six chains per set of tires.

 

[indianajo]

Last night I put a half-link chain on one of my bikes that is as strong as a belt, but not as easy to keep clean.

I only clean my chain when I get Johnson grass or string in it. I clean the derailleur takeup wheels of dirt 2 or 4 times a year: with a screwdriver. Oil emulsifies the dirt and moves it to the wheels. I oil biweekly to prevent rust.

 

[danielXchain]

I only clean my chain when I get Johnson grass or string in it. I clean the derailleur takeup wheels of dirt 2 or 4 times a year: with a screwdriver. Oil emulsifies the dirt and moves it to the wheels. I oil biweekly to prevent rust.

what oil do you use? silicone oil or just wd-40? thanks!

 

[PedalUma]

ok?

so what's max max power?

That is a good question. Maybe 1,000W at peak. If I were a math wiz I would think about and consider 500lbs climbing a 10% grade and peaking with spikes at about twice the nominal rating of 500W. Which sounds about right for a torque rating of 100Nm. With that much torque you would enjoy a belt. Recall the new Sondors Rockstar with the Ultra? It had to be detuned to 95Nm because of drivetrain damage. I just installed a new heavy duty KMC Wide half-link chain on a bike with 80Nm because I keep burning through chains on climbs. Yes, I do keep cadence high.

 

[indianajo]

what oil do you use? silicone oil or just wd-40? thanks!

Non-detergent 5W oil. Type A or F ATF. NOT DEXRON compatible ATF. SUS 32 or 46 hydraulic fluid from the farm store, the generic kind that doesn't meet John Deere New Holland Case specs, because those fluids contain detergent.
WD40 evaporates in days. Too thin.