I'm Too Poor To Afford Carbon Fibre E-Bike And/Or CF Components

[Stefan Mikes]

Yes, I could afford a Carbon Fibre e-bike. I could not afford it if a fork or frame or any other expensive component cracked. There are so many fans of CF bikes! "CF is stronger than steel or aluminium alloy!" -- they say -- "Aluminium could crack too!" -- they are comforting themselves.

To which my answer is: There is so-called "lifetime warranty" on aluminium alloy frames (whatever it is worth). In the worst case, a new e-bike or a component are not that expensive.

A broken fork on a gravel bike of a person I know. It happened during a gravel ultra marathon this year.

 

[Alaskan]

You have to be incredibly wary with carbon fiber frames and components like forks and handlebars. They can be expensive which tempts riders to buy lower priced carbon stuff from makers in China without known reputations or long term reviews on their products.
The domestic products or those sold by a large LBS network offer serious warranties which should give a bit of reassurance. Bottom line though, is do not buy carbon frames or components from anyone other than a reputable maker and distributor or you may get injured if not physically then financially, by sub par specifications and strength.

On another note, carbon fiber is easier to repair than aluminum...no fancy welding gear to buy or learn how to use. Getting the right fabrics and resin and knowing how to effect repairs is relatively easy to learn.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

They can be expensive which tempts riders to buy lower priced carbon stuff from makers in China without known reputations or long term reviews on their products.

The gospel truth, Richard! The broken fork I have shown was indeed a no-name Chinese make!

 

[ChezCheese:)]

Perhaps, Stefan, you are too smart to afford it.

 

[mschwett]

just about everyone i know out here rides carbon fiber full suspension mtb, hardtail mtb, rigid gravel bikes, or road bikes, and i've yet to hear of or see any of these infamous carbon failures! specialized, trek, cannondale, yeti, scott, giant, santa cruz, etc, there may be something to the recommendation to not buy cheap no name chinese carbon stuff!

i will admit that i bought a chinese knockoff carbon fiber bottle cage, and so far none of my bottles have gone flying and died due to cage failure.

 

[rich c]

Our son says "CF is fine until it ain't and it turns to dust". I bought a BMC City Ltd in early 2021. It seems to just about leap off the pavement when I ride. Total weight under 40 pounds really makes a big difference. It's my urban bike with no trips over 20 miles. I suspect much easier on the components than a gravel bike.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

i will admit that i bought a chinese knockoff carbon fiber bottle cage, and so far none of my bottles have gone flying and died due to cage failure.

A Specialized one died.

 

[m@Robertson]

I learned the hard way long ago not to trust c/f for most components. Most people recite the old saw that "steel bends, but alloy breaks" forgetting the last part of it: "and carbon fiber shatters".

I had a c/f seatpost do that on me. Thankfully it did so in a benign way and I was still at home. Did a little research on long-term c/f survivability and all my carbon fiber handlebars, stems and seatposts got replaced with alloy.

I do still have a couple sets of deep dish c/f rims. Those are quality stuff and able to handle higher loads than anything I can get in any other material, which was what I was after. But thats it.

 

[PDoz]

The only frames I've had fail were metal, most of the failures were at welds although one was a fatigue crack in a steel chainstay !! Admittedly I was doing silly things to that poor bike, and frame design has improved a lot since then! I've NEVER had a composite component fail, although I did witness some early (1980's) composite bmx wheels explode so it took a very long time for me to reconsider carbon! I have friends who mtb ride at elite level and can destroy new big brand frames in a day - they claim carbon is stronger and less prone to failure.

I truly believe we have reached the stage where our understanding of composites allows for the production of exceptionally strong yet relatively light products. We are developing the technology to anaylse and design more than just strength in the pursuit of a perfect " feel" . Even I can feel to difference between a carbon and alloy frame bike. This is possibly placebo, but all my alloy mountain bikes that are more than 4/5 years old seem to have lost their ? Spring? - they don't feel as precise or lively. I've tried swapping over fresh suspension components , but something is lacking. Carbon is the future, and my last 2 bike purchases had carbon frames.

BUT , I fear marketing has more influence than engineering at the moment. Consider the logic of a " raw" carbon finish being more expensive that painted ( specialized s works frames....) . Carbon suffers UV degradation. Some of the complex shapes they are coming out with look like an industrial design student messed up their drug doses ...you can't blame the raw materials for that.

So lets take a critical look at the forks in that image before clicking on " buy" - the sharp corners should be a warning that whoever " designed" them was more interested in selling a cheap product than building a quality one. Would you buy a cheap alloy fork from a random internet site then set off on an overloaded bike?

 

[mschwett]

...

BUT , I fear marketing has more influence than engineering at the moment. Consider the logic of a " raw" carbon finish being more expensive that painted ( specialized s works frames....) . Carbon suffers UV degradation. Some of the complex shapes they are coming out with look like an industrial design student messed up their drug doses ...you can't blame the raw materials for that.

....

i agree with most of what you've said - but this actually isn't true. setting aside special editions, all specialized carbon frames, s-works or not, are the same cost within a model for each of the finish choices. e.g. all of the s-works aethos frames are $5,500, whether raw carbon or red, etc.

i wonder if all the anti-carbon people refuse to fly on modern jetliners

 

[PDoz]

i agree with most of what you've said - but this actually isn't true. setting aside special editions, all specialized carbon frames, s-works or not, are the same cost within a model for each of the finish choices. e.g. all of the s-works aethos frames are $5,500, whether raw carbon or red, etc.

i wonder if all the anti-carbon people refuse to fly on modern jetliners

Thanks for clarifying that . I'd noticed that raw carbon was only available at s works priced frame level but hadn't ever noticed a painted s works bike. I drew the wrong conclusion about s works marketing

 

[Djangodog]

A bigger danger than cheap no name Carbon is counterfeit frames and parts. These are most often copies of high end bikes. There are also factory seconds that are sold as first quality online. A “great” deal can get you hurt or killed.

Not all frames are created equal. A look deep inside the carbon in counterfeit bikes

What's the harm in buying that knockoff carbon frame from the Internet? A lot more than you might think

www.velonews.com

Important advisory regarding fake frames

wilier.com

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Your Carbon Fiber Bike May Be a Ticking Time Bomb

The high-tech material has been used to build frames and components for decades, but as bikes age, catastrophic failures are leading to lawsuits

www.outsideonline.com

 

[rayray]

The only frames I've had fail were metal, most of the failures were at welds although one was a fatigue crack in a steel chainstay !! Admittedly I was doing silly things to that poor bike, and frame design has improved a lot since then! I've NEVER had a composite component fail, although I did witness some early (1980's) composite bmx wheels explode so it took a very long time for me to reconsider carbon! I have friends who mtb ride at elite level and can destroy new big brand frames in a day - they claim carbon is stronger and less prone to failure.

I truly believe we have reached the stage where our understanding of composites allows for the production of exceptionally strong yet relatively light products. We are developing the technology to anaylse and design more than just strength in the pursuit of a perfect " feel" . Even I can feel to difference between a carbon and alloy frame bike. This is possibly placebo, but all my alloy mountain bikes that are more than 4/5 years old seem to have lost their ? Spring? - they don't feel as precise or lively. I've tried swapping over fresh suspension components , but something is lacking. Carbon is the future, and my last 2 bike purchases had carbon frames.

BUT , I fear marketing has more influence than engineering at the moment. Consider the logic of a " raw" carbon finish being more expensive that painted ( specialized s works frames....) . Carbon suffers UV degradation. Some of the complex shapes they are coming out with look like an industrial design student messed up their drug doses ...you can't blame the raw materials for that.

So lets take a critical look at the forks in that image before clicking on " buy" - the sharp corners should be a warning that whoever " designed" them was more interested in selling a cheap product than building a quality one. Would you buy a cheap alloy fork from a random internet site then set off on an overloaded bike?

My S-Works Creo has the “unpainted” top bar. I’m not crazy about the look, but I believe it is clear coated, not raw carbon fiber (hmmm…I could be wrong though.) Seems that would technically be “painted”. Also, as to UV damaging carbon fiber, wouldn’t paint, even clear coat, block UV?

Personally, I’m not worried about it; It’ll be a hell of a lawsuit payoff for my wife if I die from my top bar shattering.

 

[PDoz]

My S-Works Creo has the “unpainted” top bar. I’m not crazy about the look, but I believe it is clear coated, not raw carbon fiber (hmmm…I could be wrong though.) Seems that would technically be “painted”. Also, as to UV damaging carbon fiber, wouldn’t paint, even clear coat, block UV?

Personally, I’m not worried about it; It’ll be a hell of a lawsuit payoff for my wife if I die from my top bar shattering.

Clear coat provides less uv protection than paint. It's more of an issue for products permanently exposed to the sun ( eg carbon masts on yachts....or hulls! ) , and I guess there is an argument that you might see micro damage earlier? Either way, I was wrong that s works charge a premium price to market clear coat so I'll go back into my corner now

 

[Stefan Mikes]

i wonder if all the anti-carbon people refuse to fly on modern jetliners

Modern jet airliners are not made of carbon fibre

 

[mschwett]

My S-Works Creo has the “unpainted” top bar. I’m not crazy about the look, but I believe it is clear coated, not raw carbon fiber (hmmm…I could be wrong though.) Seems that would technically be “painted”. Also, as to UV damaging carbon fiber, wouldn’t paint, even clear coat, block UV?

Personally, I’m not worried about it; It’ll be a hell of a lawsuit payoff for my wife if I die from my top bar shattering.

my non-s-works creo is almost entirely the "raw" finish - it's actually only the top of the top tube that's painted lol.

my s-works aethos has some kind of subtle spray on most parts, with a tinge of one of those chameleon-ish colors in a few random spots. but it's mostly unpainted. there are some spots where the carbon layup is really obvious - definitely not to everyone's taste. i didn't even notice the greenish bits until i'd had the bike a few weeks.

on my creo, the carbon layup effect is much more subtle, but it still has a raw/unfinished look.

 

[mschwett]

Modern jet airliners are not made of carbon fibre

The Boeing 787 makes greater use of composite materials in its airframe and primary structure than any previous Boeing commercial airplane. Undertaking the design process without preconceived ideas enabled Boeing engineers to specify the optimum material for specific applications throughout the airframe.

The result is an airframe comprising nearly half carbon fiber reinforced plastic and other composites. This approach offers weight savings on average of 20 percent compared to more conventional aluminum designs.

AERO - Boeing 787 from the Ground Up

 

[Stefan Mikes]

AERO - Boeing 787 from the Ground Up

Was not the fleet of Dreamliners grounded up because of their Li-Ion battery fires?

 

[mschwett]

Was not the fleet of Dreamliners grounded up because of their Li-Ion battery fires?

just about every new aircraft has had issues. those problems were solved and they are now flying very, very successfully. over 1,000 in service, 1,500 orders, and not a single fatality or hull loss.

there are other recent designs, like the airbus a380, which have been total commercial failures.