Ideal display for Watt Wagons (future feature)

[pushkar]

OK.. so I poured over my research and this is a good time as any to start discussion on a custom display for the Watt Wagons bikes

Here is what I have gathered so far (converted to tablular format)

Display features
1. Nicer display (colors, contrast)
2. Larger display - 3 or 4 inch
3. Some form of power output for phone charging
4. Turn by turn navigation when paired with a phone
5. Display of other analytics from the motor / controller
6. Easier way to switch between ride profiles
7. Reach goals - ability to pair with controller - disables the motor if removed from the bike.
8. Reach goals - electronic shifting display (if we are ever able to do it)
Added
9. Visible through polarized glasses

	Feature	Importance (High /Med / Low)	Available today (in our prototype)
1	Nicer Display (Colors / Contrast)	High	Yes
2	Larger Display (3+inch)	High	Yes
3	Power output for phone	High	Yes
4	Navigation when paired with phone	Med	Yes - with app
5	Motor Analytics / status	Low	No
6	Switch between ride profiles	Low	Yes
7	Reach goal - motor disabled if removed	Med	No
8	Reach goals - electronic shifting display (if we are ever able to do it)	Low	No
9	Visible through polarized lenses	Med	Not sure. Need to test
10

Technical requirements
A. Low power Bluetooth support
B. UART (current Ultra systems) and CAN (future Ultra system) compatible


I will collate your feedback and see what works.

thoughts?

Edit: Added point #9 for display features, plus current known capabilities.

 

[Ayl]

I'm good with almost all of the display features except for these two: 3 and 4.

 

[opimax]

7 more important than a reach to me, 6 is nothing to me

temperature and time interest me. Accurate percentage of battery very important, linear!

 

[BashCram]

- Visible through polarized lenses

 

[Deacon Blues]

My personal preference ranking:
1. not important to me
2. nice, but not a deal killer
3. very important to me

Display features. Ranking importance in brackets.

1. Nicer display (colors, contrast) (3)
2. Larger display - 3 or 4 inch (3)
3. Some form of power output for phone charging (3)
4. Turn by turn navigation when paired with a phone (1)
5. Display of other analytics from the motor / controller (1)
6. Easier way to switch between ride profiles (1)
7. Reach goals - ability to pair with controller - disables the motor if removed from the bike. (3)
8. Reach goals - electronic shifting display (if we are ever able to do it) (2)

 

[onlineaddy]

My preferences:

	Feature	Importance (High / Med / Low)
1	Nicer Display (Colors / Contrast)	High
2	Larger Dedicated Display (3+inch)	High, if displays navigation; Med, otherwise
3	Power output for phone	Med
4	Navigation when paired with phone	High, if displayed on dedicated display; Low, if using phone for display—why bother with pairing?
5	Motor Analytics / status	Low
6	Switch between ride profiles	High
7	Reach goal - motor disabled if removed	?please explain?
8	Reach goals - electronic shifting display (if we are ever able to do it)	Med
9	Visible through polarized lenses	Low

Regarding #7, do you mean motor decoupling when assistance is turned off?

 

[Ebiker33]

I like # 1-6, to me if you can do all that, most people will be happy, the nice thing about it too is that you start to sell accessories to people that already own Ebikes as well.

#7-9 could be for 2021/22

This is great Watt Wagons is dealing with prosumers to build a better product

 

[pushkar]

I like # 1-6, to me if you can do all that, most people will be happy, the nice thing about it too is that you start to sell accessories to people that already own Ebikes as well.

#7-9 could be for 2021/22

This is great Watt Wagons is dealing with prosumers to build a better product

We can do 1,2,3,4,6 with our prototype today. #6 is harder but can enable with a future firmware version.

I don’t know about the exact pricing, but will be ballpark in the $150-$250 range.

of course we have to test out all the features thoroughly. However this is doable.

 

[byunbee]

Couple of things, I’d like to ask for clarification.

1. I’m not sure I’d consider 3” a larger display without knowing the dimensions. For example 3”X1” = 3”, while 3”x3” = 9”. My guess is that the total display area needs to be closer to the latter to meet the larger display requirement.
2. For the motor cutoff when display is removed, are you planning on something modular like the Bosch where it slip locks in or disconnecting cables and removing the whole the display mechanism from the handlebar?

Suggestion for motor cutoff is to tie the display to the motor’s or controller’s serial number, so if a thief steals the bike without the display, only the actual person that purchased the bike can buy a new display from WW.

 

[dblhelix]

Couple of things, I’d like to ask for clarification.

1. I’m not sure I’d consider 3” a larger display without knowing the dimensions. For example 3”X1” = 3”, while 3”x3” = 9”. My guess is that the total display area needs to be closer to the latter to meet the larger display requirement.
2. For the motor cutoff when display is removed, are you planning on something modular like the Bosch where it slip locks in or disconnecting cables and removing the whole the display mechanism from the handlebar?

Suggestion for motor cutoff is to tie the display to the motor’s or controller’s serial number, so if a thief steals the bike without the display, only the actual person that purchased the bike can buy a new display from WW.

Isn’t the 3” diagonal? Perhaps I assumed too much.

 

[pushkar]

Couple of things, I’d like to ask for clarification.

1. I’m not sure I’d consider 3” a larger display without knowing the dimensions. For example 3”X1” = 3”, while 3”x3” = 9”. My guess is that the total display area needs to be closer to the latter to meet the larger display requirement.
2. For the motor cutoff when display is removed, are you planning on something modular like the Bosch where it slip locks in or disconnecting cables and removing the whole the display mechanism from the handlebar?

Suggestion for motor cutoff is to tie the display to the motor’s or controller’s serial number, so if a thief steals the bike without the display, only the actual person that purchased the bike can buy a new display from WW.

1. I’m assuming Display dimension broadly speaking will be the diagonal measurement.
2. the display will be fixed to the bike (like they have Right now). Every display has a serial. We can configure the controller to check for display serial at boot time. If someone manually disconnects and uninstalls the display, then that disabled the motor. I’mnotnsure if this is a super useful use case at the moment. However can be technically done.

 

[byunbee]

If the prototype display is 3" or 4" diagonal, then can we assume it is not the Eggrider? Eggrider diagonal is 1.13".

What display are you referencing, if you're willing to share at this stage?

 

[Cyklefanatic]

I would go for minimal information on-board . Speed, battery state of charge, assist level. Everything else Bluetooth to my cellphone which would be charged off of the display. Phone would allow more info, bigger brighter screen, customization, gps, mapping apps...

 

[pushkar]

If the prototype display is 3" or 4" diagonal, then can we assume it is not the Eggrider? Eggrider diagonal is 1.13".

What display are you referencing, if you're willing to share at this stage?

That’s correct. This is not the SW 102 that eggrider uses.
Can’t share much yet. I’ve already messed up once with announcing the city commuter Prematurely.
The display is in testing. we have a couple of options at the moment. Not ready to release yet but definitely by December 2020.

 

[pushkar]

I would go for minimal information on-board . Speed, battery state of charge, assist level. Everything else Bluetooth to my cellphone which would be charged off of the display. Phone would allow more info, bigger brighter screen, customization, gps, mapping apps...

SW102 (eggrider style) is perfect for you.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

@pushkar,

That is actually a pretty good list.

Just a couple of thoughts:

1. A trip meter (odometer that you can reset) is often very helpful. Bonus points if you can have two independent trip meters.
2. Battery level (by percentage, not by four or five bars) and a range estimator (based on power consumption in your last x kilometers of riding) are good things.
3. Navigation is really not relevant unless you do it *really* well. Google maps, ridewithgps, Garmin, and (I think) Strava all have turn-by-turn navigation with well-known advantages and disadvantages. Unless you have some kind of breakthrough that makes your implementation much better I do not really see the point. You are also unlikely to have the ecosystem that ridewithgps, Strava, and Garmin have that makes setting up routes straightforward (I especially like ridewithgps).

 

[byunbee]

@pushkar,

That is actually a pretty good list.

Just a couple of thoughts:

1. A trip meter (odometer that you can reset) is often very helpful. Bonus points if you can have two independent trip meters.
2. Battery level (by percentage, not by four or five bars) and a range estimator (based on power consumption in your last x kilometers of riding) are good things.
3. Navigation is really not relevant unless you do it *really* well. Google maps, ridewithgps, Garmin, and (I think) Strava all have turn-by-turn navigation with well-known advantages and disadvantages. Unless you have some kind of breakthrough that makes your implementation much better I do not really see the point. You are also unlikely to have the ecosystem that ridewithgps, Strava, and Garmin have that makes setting up routes straightforward (I especially like ridewithgps).

Trip meter is pretty much standard for any display and should not be a stretch goal in my opinion.

I think for the long long term, the ideal implementation would be following the same concept as Apple Car Play and Android Auto where the display is just the conduit that presents the data that the phone is providing. You should be able to keep the phone in your bag or pocket and still be able to get most of the utility from it.

But this is in a perfect world and I don’t expect something like this anytime soon.

@pushkar, give Tim Cook and Sundar Pichai a call Monday and make the deal!

 

[TomD]

Visible through polarized lenses would be HIGH for me.

 

[RAB63]

Battery percentage and range estimator (as accurate as possible) in addition to your other listed features would be ideal.

Also, not sure if people care but Garmin makes something called Varia which notifies you of cars approaching behind. The reviews are excellent. It works using a protocol called Ant+ so if your display is Ant+ compatible, it could notify of cars from behind if paired with a Varia.

 

[coldriderwi]

Visible through polarized lenses would be HIGH for me.

YES! I hate having to lower my sunglasses to view a display.

@pushkar what about the water resistance?