Hybrid Trail eBike

[DougG]

I'm looking ahead to an eBike within the next couple of years, but just haven't seen anything locally or from the bigger mfrs that quite fits the bill for what I'm thinking of. What I would like to do is to replace the hybrid/trail bike that I now use for a lot of my riding (I also have a carbon road bike that I'll be sticking to for the rare times that I use it).


This is what I have been riding the last 7 years or so. The photo is from when it was brand new and doesn't show my bottle cages, rack, and various bar accessories, but you get the idea. It has 700x38c multipurpose tires, and I use the bike mainly for the following types of riding:

- Paved and unpaved rail-trails locally and around the state.
- Casual local riding with my wife or to run errands, get an ice cream or coffee, and so on.
- Multi-day non-road tours such as on the GAP-C&O and Katy trails.
- Occasional rides with the local serious gravel grinders group on back roads that are hilly and sometimes pretty rough depending on how recently graded (most are riding MTBs, but I can generally keep up for the first 30 miles!).

Most of the eBikes that I see are either Class 3 full-on MTBs with the Class 1 bikes being more of the cruiser variety, where what I'd really like is a Class 1 eBike equivalent to what I already have. The closest I have seen in person is the 2018 Trek DualSport+, where the DualSport is really the Trek equivalent of my bike. However, for 2019 they seem to have softened it up a bit (and added $800 to the price!). There is one good eBike specialist store in the area that carries a number of specialty brands; I haven't visited them yet, but none of them appear to have what I'm looking for, if it indeed exists.

Any suggestions?

 

[indianajo]

Those are really long trails, Katy & C&O canal.
First you need to decide on motor configuration. This depends on your recovery plan. If, when the electric drive fails, you intend to call for a taxi or friend on your cell phone, then mid-drive bikes seem to have the best reliability reputations these days.
If you intend to pedal your way to the next stop, you need a geared hub drive. These do not incure drag when you pedal the bike unpowered. This also allows you to override the range of your battery. Second choice is the direct drive hub. These drag a little bit, but I am coping with that on mine as I try to build a dual voltage battery charger not made in *****. I think the DD drag costs me about one sprocket at all speeds.
The base website is not providing a review on the trek dualsport +, so I can't tell what you have selected. Price increases are going to be universal on new stock, a tarriff was just introduced. Pedego owners were on the Nightly Business Report last week. They are moving their production to Viet Nam, which is going to cost them at least $300 more per bike they said.

 

[AHicks]

That bike, having disc brakes on it, would be one I would personally consider as a good candidate for a DIY e-bike conversion. This let's you spec out a battery that suits YOUR mission, with little compromise. It also lets you spec a power system of your choice. I'm a big DD rear hub motor advocate, and would recommend something like that, maybe 1500w, IF you think your average speed will be much over about 10mph. If less, a gear drive might make more sense.

Not sure of your budget, but it seems like production bikes that might do a good job on the mission you describe are going to be pretty pricey - and then, you'll very likely have to compromise when it comes to things like battery capacity, the lack of setup flexibility, etc.

Look at kits from Leafbike.com (pretty decent reputation for buck spent vs. bang received), and details regarding the LCD3 display when used with a KT type controller (which Leaf uses in their kits). Some time spent there will make you a more educated buyer I believe.

For a battery, the 20-21ah batteries are starting to come down in price. I would look for something close to that.

Using your bike, a good conversion kit, and a good battery should keep your budget in the 1000. dollar range. Bonus would be you built it, so you could figure out about anything that goes wrong with it (not likely for quite a while), and mods would become second nature using over the counter parts.

 

[rich c]

Looking now, for a purchase a couple years from now, will provide some frustrations. Model year changes can be very dramatic.

 

[MikeDD]

If you have the funds, check out the Specialized Turbo Levo FSR 6Fattie/29. I bought mine from a rental shop, it had been charged only 10 times with 285 miles. I saved enough for me to break loose with the funds. It handles gravel roads great and trails and pavement.

 

[DougG]

Those are really long trails, Katy & C&O canal.
First you need to decide on motor configuration. This depends on your recovery plan. If, when the electric drive fails, you intend to call for a taxi or friend on your cell phone, then mid-drive bikes seem to have the best reliability reputations these days.
If you intend to pedal your way to the next stop, you need a geared hub drive. These do not incure drag when you pedal the bike unpowered. This also allows you to override the range of your battery. Second choice is the direct drive hub. These drag a little bit, but I am coping with that on mine as I try to build a dual voltage battery charger not made in *****. I think the DD drag costs me about one sprocket at all speeds.
The base website is not providing a review on the trek dualsport +, so I can't tell what you have selected. Price increases are going to be universal on new stock, a tarriff was just introduced. Pedego owners were on the Nightly Business Report last week. They are moving their production to Viet Nam, which is going to cost them at least $300 more per bike they said.

I just threw those trails in as an example, but it's not like I'd ride end-to-end in one shot; we're talking about an average of 40 miles a day and probably in "eco" mode for just a light boost, and staying in motels where charging each night is no problem.

 

[DougG]

Looking now, for a purchase a couple years from now, will provide some frustrations. Model year changes can be very dramatic.

Good advice. The market is maturing rapidly and I expect to see a lot more out there by then. My main goal for now is to get my wife on one (she does have one picked out) so that she can more easily do the same distances and conditions that I can currently do on my own. After all, I'm only 72 now and the only guy in our local riding group that has gone over to the dark side is approaching 90! So I'll just lurk around until I'm ready.

 

[rich c]

Good advice. The market is maturing rapidly and I expect to see a lot more out there by then. My main goal for now is to get my wife on one (she does have one picked out) so that she can more easily do the same distances and conditions that I can currently do on my own. After all, I'm only 72 now and the only guy in our local riding group that has gone over to the dark side is approaching 90! So I'll just lurk around until I'm ready.

I'm 66, and don't put off plans for fun any longer than absolutely necessary. My Dad died at 61, his Dad at 49. My Mother is 87, but in hospice care with end stage dementia and failing heart valve. After caring for my Mom, I have a whole new outlook on aging. Those last 3-4 years can be a throw away if the cards aren't in your favor! Buy the bikes!

 

[indianajo]

I just threw those trails in as an example, but it's not like I'd ride end-to-end in one shot; we're talking about an average of 40 miles a day and probably in "eco" mode for just a light boost, and staying in motels where charging each night is no problem.

The point is, when the electric drive fails 20 miles from the motel, can the sag wagon come get you? If not, with the ubiquitous mid-drives, you'll be pushing the bike that distance. With a hub drive you can pedal your way to the motel then order something to be delivered there overnight express.
Great you're still pedaling yourself great distances age 72. Keep it up. I'm age 68, good to pedal a routine 36 miles, but a 15 mph head wind can double my commute to 6 hours with waay too much 156 pulse for comfort. My wife has no room in her car for my bike. I also go places where there is no cell phone service. So I have a hub drive. I don't use the electricity if the wind is not adverse.

 

[AHicks]

I'm 66, and don't put off plans for fun any longer than absolutely necessary. My Dad died at 61, his Dad at 49. My Mother is 87, but in hospice care with end stage dementia and failing heart valve. After caring for my Mom, I have a whole new outlook on aging. Those last 3-4 years can be a throw away if the cards aren't in your favor! Buy the bikes!

Yup, I retired at 60 for the same reason. Sure, I could have used the extra money for working a few more years, but watching your dad and father in law both die prior to receiving one dime of social security had a pretty sobering effect on me. I figured I could get by retiring at 60 so I could enjoy what time I had left starting with good health. So far, at 67, the plan has been working really well. One of the reasons for that I figure, is the lack of the stress I was under while working.

Anyway, sounds like our OP is going strong at 72. My hat's off to you.

 

[DougG]

The point is, when the electric drive fails 20 miles from the motel, can the sag wagon come get you? If not, with the ubiquitous mid-drives, you'll be pushing the bike that distance. With a hub drive you can pedal your way to the motel then order something to be delivered there overnight express.

Pardon my ignorance, but what sort of failure in a mid-drive motor would prevent it from being pedaled? How would it be different from pedaling on the no-assist setting, or with a depleted battery, or with the battery removed?

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Doug ...
Your riding seems quite similar to my own and my 2018 Trek Powerfly 5 (light duty eMTB) has proved satisfactory. I'd suggest testing the DualSport+. It does seem a tad on the expensive side.
... David

 

[AHicks]

Pardon my ignorance, but what sort of failure in a mid-drive motor would prevent it from being pedaled? How would it be different from pedaling on the no-assist setting, or with a depleted battery, or with the battery removed?

How likely it's going to happen open to debate, but a chain failure, or about anything in the drive train would leave you pushing.

 

[DougG]

Doug ...
Your riding seems quite similar to my own and my 2018 Trek Powerfly 5 (light duty eMTB) has proved satisfactory. I'd suggest testing the DualSport+. It does seem a tad on the expensive side.
... David

Thanks, David. That's the type of idea I was hoping to pick up here.

 

[DDBB]

check out some of the Haibike trekking models. Very similar to hybrid acoustic bikes. It's very easy to make a class1 20mph bike into a class 3, 28mph bike.

 

[linklemming]

How likely it's going to happen open to debate, but a chain failure, or about anything in the drive train would leave you pushing.

Couldnt this be easily fixable by carrying a spare master link and even a multi-tool with a chaintool?

I have carried both of these for the last 15 or so years and have never needed them.

What else do you think could fail? About the only thing I can think of is the cassette mechanism

 

[Mr. Coffee]

How likely it's going to happen open to debate, but a chain failure, or about anything in the drive train would leave you pushing.

If you properly maintain and inspect your drivetrain regularly you won't have a chain failure. Worst case scenario on the road is that you'll have a bad crash and bend either the chain or the derailleur hanger. Then what you do is use your chain tool and remove the bent section of chain and convert your bike into a single-speed for the trip home.

 

[paraganek]

Doug ...
Your riding seems quite similar to my own and my 2018 Trek Powerfly 5 (light duty eMTB) has proved satisfactory. I'd suggest testing the DualSport+. It does seem a tad on the expensive side.
... David

+1. Trek Powerfly 5 might be the right choice for you.

 

[AHicks]

If you properly maintain and inspect your drivetrain regularly you won't have a chain failure. Worst case scenario on the road is that you'll have a bad crash and bend either the chain or the derailleur hanger. Then what you do is use your chain tool and remove the bent section of chain and convert your bike into a single-speed for the trip home.

And if you have a direct drive, you don't have to worry about it!

 

[Johnny]

I'm looking ahead to an eBike within the next couple of years, but just haven't seen anything locally or from the bigger mfrs that quite fits the bill for what I'm thinking of. What I would like to do is to replace the hybrid/trail bike that I now use for a lot of my riding (I also have a carbon road bike that I'll be sticking to for the rare times that I use it).

View attachment 26234
This is what I have been riding the last 7 years or so. The photo is from when it was brand new and doesn't show my bottle cages, rack, and various bar accessories, but you get the idea. It has 700x38c multipurpose tires, and I use the bike mainly for the following types of riding:

- Paved and unpaved rail-trails locally and around the state.
- Casual local riding with my wife or to run errands, get an ice cream or coffee, and so on.
- Multi-day non-road tours such as on the GAP-C&O and Katy trails.
- Occasional rides with the local serious gravel grinders group on back roads that are hilly and sometimes pretty rough depending on how recently graded (most are riding MTBs, but I can generally keep up for the first 30 miles!).

Most of the eBikes that I see are either Class 3 full-on MTBs with the Class 1 bikes being more of the cruiser variety, where what I'd really like is a Class 1 eBike equivalent to what I already have. The closest I have seen in person is the 2018 Trek DualSport+, where the DualSport is really the Trek equivalent of my bike. However, for 2019 they seem to have softened it up a bit (and added $800 to the price!). There is one good eBike specialist store in the area that carries a number of specialty brands; I haven't visited them yet, but none of them appear to have what I'm looking for, if it indeed exists.

Any suggestions?

Dear Doug,

Trek dualsport+ is way overpriced for what it is but you have lot's of other options.

If you think you don't need full suspension(from what you wrote I believe you don't) then imo you should look for hardtail mtb as others suggested. Trek powerfly 5 is a nice example.

Don't go for 38, even 45, try to go for 50+ balloon mtb tires and a good front fork suspension. Electric bikes are heavy hence wide tires make much more sense than a hybrid tire. Balloon tires rolls better and the weight penalty is insignificant when your bike is 45+ lbs. On top of this at higher speeds wider tires handle better and by lowering the pressure you can soften up the ride significantly. They will be more durable on trails too.

For the electrical components, go for a mid drive. There are a few well known choices, Bosch, Yamaha, Brose etc. The main difference between them is usually the cadence at which support stops. You should go try them out at a lbs. If your cadence is lower then Yamaha is great else Bosch and Brose should be better choices.

The market is much more mature than you think. You should look into Haibikes. Early this year there were hardtails (29er hardtail mountainbikes) on sale like this https://www.ebikesofne.com/Haibike-Xduro-HardNine-6-0-p/xdurohardnine6.htm (At $2800 it comes with great components better than of powerfly 5 and a Bosch CX system with 500wh ). Probably you can see similar deals starting Early 2019(a rockshox fork, good brakes/shifters etc. good tires).