Do I need an eMTB?

[Stefan Mikes]

Then burn your house with a cheap battery.

 

[DaveMatthews]

Thanks - I think this is what I imagined when I first started thinking about an ebike.

What about the Talon E+ 3 for a beginner? (And then someone mentioned upgrading the fork later?) $2300 might be in the ballpark of what I could look at.

My son runs the Talon E+2. It has been flawless.
It does have the older battery type though, which cannot be upgraded. Not sure if that matters.

 

[rob feature]

I'd start with an analog hardtail first - especially if the goal is to shed some pounds while exploring. You can get a nice starter bike for a grand, where good eMTBs are gonna be tough on that budget. You'll also need a few basic tools and some way to carry them, helmet, gloves, possibly some apparel. If you hate it, you're not knee-deep. You can also build some basic skills before getting on something fast & heavy & complex.

 

[TrevorB]

I'd start with an analog hardtail first - especially if the goal is to shed some pounds while exploring. You can get a nice starter bike for a grand, where good eMTBs are gonna be tough on that budget. You'll also need a few basic tools and some way to carry them, helmet, gloves, possibly some apparel. If you hate it, you're not knee-deep. You can also build some basic skills before getting on something fast & heavy & complex.

Cheaper option and can always add middrive kit later if they need assistance.

Buy something with 11 or 12spd as they have low granny gears, in case of 11spd 11-46t cassette, there are aftermarket 11-50t cassettes. As rule any bike with these drivetrains will be higher spec with better components ie brakes, suspension, wheel.

Maybe hire MTB first and see if this is right path to go down.

When budgeting on bike also allow for basic puncture repair kit, multitool, helment and gloves. This is just start you will most likely buy other gear.

 

[Catalyzt]

Or, you can do what I did: Hold your breath, pray, roll the dice, and buy a Motobecane eMTB from Bikes Direct sight unseen, without even sitting on it-- without ever having ridden any MTB, even a hard tail, before.

Usually? They're fine. Every now and then, someone gets a lemon, and I've heard BD can be a pig to deal with. My bike was 2 grand (no longer available), though I'm sure I've put another $600 into it, started at 49 pounds, now down to 46. (It's the bike in my avatar.) I have to disagree with almost everyone here (that I usually agree with) that all bikes under 3 grand are junk. Most are junk, not all. My wheels are WTB, not junk, the motor is Shimano, not junk, the tires were Riddlers, not junk, the fork is Suntour and air, not spring, and not junk. The frame is definitely not junk. It is underpowered.

I bought it when I knew nothing about e-Bikes or eMTB in my early 60s and did plenty of stupid sh*t. Wound up in places where I wasn't even on a trail and had to turn the bike around while balancing on the edge of a 50 foot drop, rode angry and went up a hill that was too steep, couldn't bail out, fell backwards and had the bike fall on top of me. (I suggest body armor, which helped a LOT, but I'm on blood thinners.)

I agree with a lot of the great points made above. As Robertson noted, sometimes paying for experience is something you won't regret because you have so much fun along the way. Keith is right to research trails in your area (and how to get to them. Can you ride there, or do you need to put the bike in your car? Can your car accommodate a bike rack? Mine can't.)

Rob is right about the tools. Pedaluma is also right about the proprietary battery-- and this is worth considering, because a lot of the Motobecane bikes on BD's website are older designs, and the specs are a bit older. Will Shimano keep making batteries for them? I hope so, but who knows?

Also note that the bikes on BD's website right now are either 28MPH or they are 29ers-- and Chargeride is right about 29ers, I just got one, and while for a 29er it is rated as a fantastic climber, it does not climb as well as a 27.5. So a lot depends on where you live. Do they know or care if your bike goes 28 MPH? The BD bikes also have less power-- though not as little as mine, which is about 2 hamster power-- and read reviews of the motors before you take the plunge, some Shimanos are more reliable or efficient than others.

Trevor makes a good point, too: You could get an acoustic MTB and upgrade later, BUT spec that out thoroughly before pulling the trigger: This will be easier on some bikes than others. If you get a full suspension eMTB, where are you gonna put the battery? You may not have room on the downtube. Hardtails will be easier, but check the bottom bracket size-- on my Marin, (my new bike) it's wide but it worked, I have plenty of mods coming up, which I knew! On a carbon fiber frame, you may not be able to do the conversion, the bracket may be even wider, and drilling holes for cables is more problematic.

Here is BD's website, just for giggles:

Hot New eBikes! Save Up to 63% Off Electric Bicycles +FREE SHIP 48

Keep watching this page Hot New eBikes! Save Up to 63% Off Electric Bicycles +FREE SHIP 48

www.bikesdirect.com

 

[SleepyBob]

Thanks, everyone. I found a Giant dealer for ebikes that I can visit next week, and I also stopped briefly at a used bike shop to see what an acoustic bike would be like. Finally, it just occurred to me that my son left his old bike here and it has full suspension. It's probably a super cheap one, but I think I'll try that for now to get a taste and then decide what I want to pull the trigger on in the spring.

 

[m@Robertson]

Just remember that when deciding whether or not you like the experience of cycling, there is an exhilaration factor that is largely absent on an old-school analog bike. For those of us who have been cycling most of our lives, we know that cycling is first and foremost about controlled suffering (and usually, being arrogant about being able to take that suffering with stoicism when surrounded by mere mortals).

Electric biking on the other hand rounds off all those rough edges and turns cycling into something else: just exercise. When the suffering kicks in, you can dial up the assist and continue to have fun. Studies show that electric bike riders tend to stay in the saddle longer and ride further. Because they are not suffering.

So, as a cyclist I want you to suffer. To earn your chops. But what YOU want is to experience the fun of cycling with electric assist. Then you can dial down the motor and suffer just a little. If you want to. Or suffer a lot and turn the motor off. But the choice will be yours.

The OG riders - or the ones who just talk a good game and only style themselves as OG's - hate that.

 

[PedalUma]

For the folks who say, 'I want to get exercise; eBikes are cheating.' I tell them to go fill their tires with water then, so they can suffer more, while getting more exercise. Of course they would just ride a lot less. The bikes I prefer make you work for the payoff. When you sweat a little, that is when the bike gives its all. They are a thrill. And you ride a lot more while gaining fitness. If I were on a budget and wanted an everything, everywhere bike, that I could later convert, I would buy this from bikes online. It can even work for bikepacking. Weight is a huge factor. Less is so much more. Sometime later you could install a dropper and an air fork, but chromo is nice. This is a real bike at a big box BSO, bike shaped object, price. After conversion a bike like this will come in with a 50/50 weight distribution and be about 40 pounds.

 

[Taylor57]

For the folks who say, 'I want to get exercise; eBikes are cheating.' I tell them to go fill their tires with water then, so they can suffer more, while getting more exercise. Of course they would just ride a lot less. The bikes I prefer make you work for the payoff. When you sweat a little, that is when the bike gives its all. They are a thrill. And you ride a lot more while gaining fitness. If I were on a budget and wanted an everything, everywhere bike, that I could later convert, I would buy this from bikes online. It can even work for bikepacking. Weight is a huge factor. Less is so much more. Sometime later you could install a dropper and an air fork, but chromo is nice. This is a real bike at a big box BSO, bike shaped object, price. After conversion a bike like this will come in with a 50/50 weight distribution and be about 40 pounds.

View attachment 163160
View attachment 163163

Is the battery the Nike swoosh water bottle?

 

[jabberwocky]

FWIW, a good non-electric MTB that will hold up to trail use starts pretty close to 1k these days, and thats likely a hardtail (suspension fork but rigid rear). You can get into a low end full suspension in the low 1k range. Adding ebike stuff obviously adds cost.

A lot really depends on what you're looking at ultimately doing; if you want to ride fire roads and doubletrack you can definitely look at a wider variety of bikes. But you said Utah mountain singletrack; I've ridden in Utah and know the trails can get gnarly. For that you want an actual MTB. For the electric stuff, ignore anything hub motor and ignore anything not torque sensing. Utah singletrack can get ridiculously steep and a hub motor just won't cut it, and pedal control is very important on MTB trails for obstacles and such so you want a system with very good fine control. For wheel size, not sure where 20" came from. For years 26" was the standard on mountainbikes, but 29" became niche-popular 15-20 years ago and then everyone moved to the in-between 27.5" wheels. These days its hard to find 26" stuff, most MTBs will be 27.5 with some 29 thrown in. All that said, I wouldn't worry too much about wheel size, its not as important as people make it out to be.

You may check local shops and see if they rent (ebike or just a normal MTB) to give it a try.

 

[m@Robertson]

For the electric stuff, ignore anything hub motor and ignore anything not torque sensing.

This will give him a much better ebike but his avowed budget isn't in this league, although he did say maybe he can step up to that Giant linked earlier, which looks like a good buy.

Hub motors border on worthless on any serious hills, but hub motor'd ebikes are a fixture of the bottom end of the ebike marketplace. But if its that or nothing, Go with that and get the experience under your belt. Upgrade to another bike when you're ready but use the hub bike as a gateway drug. I'd say torque sensing is a requirement only for people who can't/won't change the settings on a Bafang motor, which becomes a fantastic singletrack tool if you dig into it and change its behavior (so its nothing like how it came from the factory). Easily do-able but not for someone who just wants to write a check and be done with it. My MTB settings are in here and the BBSHD is de-tuned to about 400w of pedal assist on max, among other things.

BBSHD Programming For The Pedaling Cyclist (2023 Update)

Explore enhanced BBSHD programming for pedal assist settings that don't let the bike run away from you, and throttle settings gentle on the drivetrain.

talesontwowheels.com

For wheel size, not sure where 20" came from.

I think he's looking at budget ebikes and, as an inexperienced shopper, is probably seeing a lot of fat 20" wheels in that class of bike. And since those cheap bikes have hub motors, the 20" wheel does have limited benefits for light use.

All that said, I wouldn't worry too much about wheel size, its not as important as people make it out to be.

^^^ this! So much about component choice is rooted in bicycle marketing. This 3-minute educational video will explain the industry and its improvement treadmill:

I have a badass 29er enduro and its a great bike that can do anything a bicycle is capable of doing. But I recently built a 26" bike based on a 1999 Intense Tracer frame (with a 2000 Marzocchi Bomber fork) and its a damn fine bike by any standard. I honestly wish I had never gone down the 29er route as the 26'er does everything I need unless I need to shoot straight down a mountainside.

 

[PedalUma]

Is the battery the Nike swoosh water bottle?

@Slaphappygamer can cut anyone stickers. That was a temporary joke that I got a kick out of. I also used silicone gasket maker to attach a bottle top to the battery. Can you believe the price on that Marin XC adventure bike?

 

[Taylor57]

@Slaphappygamer can cut anyone stickers. That was a temporary joke that I got a kick out of. I also used silicone gasket maker to attach a bottle top to the battery. Can you believe the price on that Marin XC adventure bike?

600 seems like a good deal no?

 

[Ang1sgt]

Sleepy Bob,

Learn what works for you! That is the best I can tell you. I have a younger brother that lives in Utah and he sends me pictures and videos all the time
of the trails he is on. About 90% of them I could do with a basic lower end e-bike like I have which is a folding 20x4 inch tire bike. I ride mostly
converted rail trails in my area with some single track rides that I used to do back 20 years ago. I am recovering from a brain tumor operation so I am highly
cautious of how and why I ride. Age is a factor too with me being almost 70.

As stated, my bike is a folding, 20 inch tire bike with a 500 watt hub motor, pedal assist and throttle, so it’s a class 2 bike. It does everything I need it to do and most of my exercise rides are in the 20-25 mile range and this bikes does that with no problem. My heart rate gets the needed exercise, my legs are getting
toned back up and I am outside doing what I used to love doing. Most times I am in pedal assist 1 or 2 between 12-16 mph.

I talk to everyone on the trails when I ride. If they want to stop and talk about their bikes or MY bike I do it. I may learn something and so might they. I carry enough tools with me to help others as well as a selection of tubes and spares just to help others. I met a new friend last week and he was riding a $5000+
bike, Class 2. While it was full suspension, and a heck of a nice bike, on this trail could it do anything more than my lowly inexpensive e-bike? The ONLY benefit to his bike over mine was the battery capacity and extra add-on battery support, which adds weight and complexity to any bike. We road the same trail, and road the same length of time, we had about the same amount of battery left. He had to put his on an expensive external bike rack on his Jeep, and mine folded up and went into my Jeep in the back area out of the elements and safe and secure.

Now I am sure I have upset some of the folks here by my statements. But….I have done what I can to get into e-bikes on my own terms, with the understanding that I am a “fixed” income retiree that has not really ridden in a number of years. I now have the capability to ride and ENJOY riding again
and for me that means more than anything.

 

[jabberwocky]

I have a younger brother that lives in Utah and he sends me pictures and videos all the time
of the trails he is on. About 90% of them I could do with a basic lower end e-bike like I have which is a folding 20x4 inch tire bike.

It really depends on what you mean by "trails". Utah obviously has plenty of doubletrack, paved paths and easy singletrack where pretty much any form of bike will be ok. Utah also has some of the gnarliest trail in the world (the Whole Enchilada and the Portal Trail are both in the state) and the words best rider would struggle to ride that stuff on a 20" folding bike, and no hub motor in the world is going to go up some of the grades you'll find on Slickrock. I'm not trying to be combative here or talk down your bike, but thats just the reality. I've ridden most of the Whole Enchilada and Slickrock (as well as several other Utah trails) on my non-electric. They are not suited to folding 20" bikes, and its not just "hub motor and 20" wheels", the geometry is all wrong. If you want to ride real mountainbike trail, you want a real mountainbike. So the question is mainly whether you want to ride real mountainbike trail.

I'll also note that some of the big MTB destinations in Utah (mainly Moab area and St George area) are some of the most hostile to ebikes in the country. Look up your local regs because this stuff is highly local and changes frequently but if you want to purchase an ebike for mtb trails you almost certainly want a class 1 to be legal, and you want to be legal because those are places where you're unlikely to skate by because nobody cares. They care. A lot.

I met a new friend last week and he was riding a $5000+
bike, Class 2. While it was full suspension, and a heck of a nice bike, on this trail could it do anything more than my lowly inexpensive e-bike? The ONLY benefit to his bike over mine was the battery capacity and extra add-on battery support, which adds weight and complexity to any bike.

Again, not talking down your bike, but I really doubt thats the only benefit.

 

[kevinmccune]

you can get a 26" 800 $aostrimotor full suspension 500 watt 15 ah battery surely not the best but a good gateway drug,i kept one a good while, long enough to wearoot the rear tire,it would probably make you want something better or satisfy your craving,it would do 17 miles in mixed terrain easily and even though the motor peaked at 625 watts it pullled really well( the power depened largely on how much torque you were willing to supply,good hunting.

 

[kevinmccune]

Sleepy Bob,

Learn what works for you! That is the best I can tell you. I have a younger brother that lives in Utah and he sends me pictures and videos all the time
of the trails he is on. About 90% of them I could do with a basic lower end e-bike like I have which is a folding 20x4 inch tire bike. I ride mostly
converted rail trails in my area with some single track rides that I used to do back 20 years ago. I am recovering from a brain tumor operation so I am highly
cautious of how and why I ride. Age is a factor too with me being almost 70.

As stated, my bike is a folding, 20 inch tire bike with a 500 watt hub motor, pedal assist and throttle, so it’s a class 2 bike. It does everything I need it to do and most of my exercise rides are in the 20-25 mile range and this bikes does that with no problem. My heart rate gets the needed exercise, my legs are getting
toned back up and I am outside doing what I used to love doing. Most times I am in pedal assist 1 or 2 between 12-16 mph.

I talk to everyone on the trails when I ride. If they want to stop and talk about their bikes or MY bike I do it. I may learn something and so might they. I carry enough tools with me to help others as well as a selection of tubes and spares just to help others. I met a new friend last week and he was riding a $5000+
bike, Class 2. While it was full suspension, and a heck of a nice bike, on this trail could it do anything more than my lowly inexpensive e-bike? The ONLY benefit to his bike over mine was the battery capacity and extra add-on battery support, which adds weight and complexity to any bike. We road the same trail, and road the same length of time, we had about the same amount of battery left. He had to put his on an expensive external bike rack on his Jeep, and mine folded up and went into my Jeep in the back area out of the elements and safe and secure.

Now I am sure I have upset some of the folks here by my statements. But….I have done what I can to get into e-bikes on my own terms, with the understanding that I am a “fixed” income retiree that has not really ridden in a number of years. I now have the capability to ride and ENJOY riding again
and for me that means more than anything.

amen.

 

[El_Binco]

amen.

If you're willing to forego the full suspension this may work. https://www.aventon.com/products/ra...tent=1140194275810787&utm_term=71262236997096

 

[6zfshdb]

It would be interesting to find out if the OP of this nearly 9 month old post made his choice, and if so, how it's working out.

 

[El_Binco]

It would be interesting to find out if the OP of this nearly 9 month old post made his choice, and if so, how it's working out.

Agreed i like when people update it shows an appreciation for the help, but I'm sure the conversation is still useful for others