Heres some real world ebike motor data.

RichieFromBoston

RichieFromBoston

Member
Region
USA
in the last 4 weeks Ive ridden extensivley 100 miles os so ,the 2021 Bulls Estream (brose) 2021 Bulls ecore evo am4(shimano steps8000) and the 2021 Bulls Copperhead ecore am4 (Bosch PL gen 4)
The shimano motor sucked, no power comparatively The brose motor was real good and the Bosch motor RULES.
Now bear in mind I paid for these swapped the ecore for Copperhead. and i weigh 250lb and carry a 15-20lb backpack
 

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Your 'data' is vague opinion without useful info of ANY kind. We're always up for discussion and knowledge sharing, but I would suggest that we need either some quantitative 'data' (times, performance stats, logged history), or at least a detailed qualitative 'opinion' with enough background to discuss the testing environment and your personal experiences. What was similar or different between each bike, why you thought one motor was better than the other, what about the testing environment seemed to help or hinder each bike's performance, etc.

And many wouldn't consider 100 miles extensive at all, so perhaps some description of why you felt that was adequate riding and enough environmental variability to make such strong statements. :)
 
This is data. It's just not quantitative in the sense that some folks would like. It's also more relevant to most of us - real world experience and opinion, subjective though it may be, is more valuable to most of us than published torque data, to use an example, especially when you consider how much the controller might affect things.
 
Wondering what OP did not like about the STEPS system. Mine is the E5000, and very underpowered for an EMTB (I knew that when I bought the bike, was one of the compromises I was willing to make) but I find that it's worst deficit is moderate uphill grades -- it feels like it surges in a way that's not welcome. I don't have that problem on gentle hills or on steep ones-- it gets the job done on 15%, just a little slow and a bit of a workout, which I would expect for 40 Nm. I have no problem on gravel or slippery, sandy dirt covering hardpack-- again, a little slow, a bit of a workout, not unexpected.

Just curious as to whether the power deficit is more pronounced on moderate grades with the more powerful steps 8000, or if he's just finding it weak across the board.
 
I have the E8000, and it’s far from underpowered, lol.
.......and yes, I’ve ridden Brose and Bosch for comparison.

Edit: I’m wondering if the E8000 the OP tried was de-tuned using the STEPS E-Tube app....

bike.shimano.com

PROJECT Cyclist | E-TUBE PROJECT | E-TUBE | E-TUBE PROJECT-US

Maximize your bicycle performance with E-TUBE PROJECT Cyclist. Using E-TUBE PROJECT allows you to easily configure various assist power settings, update the Di2 unit firmware, or customize electronic shifting for your E-BIKE.
bike.shimano.com bike.shimano.com
 
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I'd be happy with any of those bikes! But my next ebike will have a Bosch gen 4 motor, so I'm glad you've had a positive experience with it. I hear it can be a bit loud, compared to other motors. Is that your experience, RichieFromBoston, or not really? Why did you prefer that motor over the Brose?
 
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Oh my Goodness, I knew some would have to "shelter in place" forgot the world we are in now. Yes Ive lived on this earth a long time I have built many machines that go where others cannot and Ive seen places 99% never have or will. So to me DATA is whats real, so my mistake for daring to use the word data, when opinion is clearly the only choice. That being said curious how many here that ARENT sponsored,dog in the fight types have had the chance to own 3 off the above mentioned bikes/motors? not many is the answer, so I figured I tell you exactly what I discovered. I loved everything about the the 2021 ecore and if it had a borse or bosch motor Id still have it. I was totally loving the e stream with brose motor until I got the copperhead with bosch motor its just got power to spare. And for the LOLer who has the ep800 and has "ridden the brose,bosch: well Ive ridden the 2021 version off all three over a 100 miles a piece on exact MTB trails in Lynn Ma. and the shimano was returned.
 
What data is and isn't and what information is and isn't, is an interesting topic. You might be surprised once you investigate, if you hold your own ideation to be sacred.
Does information necessarily have to have already informed another entity in order to be information?
 
My neighbor has the Shimano E5000on his comfort/hybrid bike. He told me that it take a full rotation and 1/2 of the pedals before the motor kicks in. He says it's nearly impossible to start on a hill. Does this sound right or does his need some adjustment or maintenance? I have the E7000 and have instant power.
 
JackNCA said:
My neighbor has the Shimano E5000on his comfort/hybrid bike. He told me that it take a full rotation and 1/2 of the pedals before the motor kicks in. He says it's nearly impossible to start on a hill. Does this sound right or does his need some adjustment or maintenance? I have the E7000 and have instant power.
Click to expand...
No, that does not sound right at all! Can he confirm that by looking at the power assist level-- the little black bar that indicates how much power the motor is supplying at any given moment? If it really doesn't move for that long, that sounds like a problem.

I believe I have instant power as well. I gear down a lot before climbing hills, I don't have a lot of stoplights at the bottom of hills where I ride, so I will test this, but I'm pretty sure I've never experienced this. 1.5 rotations?! I think I would notice that.

Also, I often go from having the power off completely descending a hill to ECO, then NORM, then a brief spot of HIGH if it's a steep hill until I get to the next flat spot, and I don't feel any noticeable lag. On the E5000, I do find myself shifting modes a LOT due to the low power/torque, but I haven't felt any delay.

I don't have as much basis for comparison as the OP, and I'm sure I don't ride trails that are nearly as aggressive. But I'm 63, and a 7-to-12 mile ride in my neighborhood always covers 900 to 1,500 feet of vertical. My 49-pound EMTB with the E5000 has a hair over 40 miles of range including 4,000 feet of vertical. I'm getting a workout for sure, but I don't feel like I'm killing myself.
 
Not exactly data when you use the word "sucked". I recently bought a BMC Ampenchallenge City One. I first tried the E5000 for 25 miles. It did a fine job on paved multi use trails, but was in the high assist mode quite a bit. I didn't want to be up against the max as much, so swapped it up for a City LTD with the E8000. With the Eco set on high, Trail on medium and Max on high, I find myself almost never using the Max. I find it has more power than the Bosch MY 2016 Haibikes I have, including the Full Seven mtb. So for my "data", none of them suck and the Shimano has the most power. The transition above 20mph is really nice, and often reach 22mph under my own power.
 
UPDATE.. I showed my neighbor how to use the E-Tube Project app to update the firmware on his E5000 and his solved his issues. Now its like a brand new bike to him.
 
evolvable said:
I'd be happy with any of those bikes! But my next ebike will have a Bosch gen 4 motor, so I'm glad you've had a positive experience with it. I hear it can be a bit loud, compared to other motors. Is that your experience, RichieFromBoston, or not really? Why did you prefer that motor over the Brose?
Click to expand...
Motor noise is a very common complaint from those that value a quiet ride. I rode 5 R&M bikes, all gen 4 bosh, and now several more bikes, both Bosch and brose. Brose is both quieter and it is smooth, so I am going with brose.
 
Here's some fresh data.
I have no experience with Shimano.
I've had 4 Bosch bikes, Haibike, Raleigh, and 2 Bulls.
The Bosch motor is great, still have a bike with a Gen 4 Cx.
But my new Bulls E stream Evo AM4 with the Brose S Mag motor rules.
It's quieter, smoother and more powerful.
 
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