Heres some real world ebike motor data.

[Ken M]

The 3 class laws are nonsense. On our bike path the speed limit is 15 mph. All of the plastic pants crowd on 13 lb carbon bikes are exceeding that limit continuously and dangerously, yet there is no enforcement. Why would it matter if a class 3 ebike is riding 10 mph on the bike path? Yet that is illegal. The law should be that you must be riding safely. If you're not, then you should be put in the stockade and then remedial training until you can learn to ride safely. There is some kind of belief in magic numbers. Look at a school zone for instance. The speed limit is 25 mph. If toddlers are wandering around, is it safe to even be driving 25? Probably not. 25 is the limit but 3 mph is more likely the safe speed. There once were prima facie speed limit laws, which meant that you could drive any speed that was safe, provided that you could prove that it was safe, if questioned. That reliance on rational thinking and evidence was removed because the justice system could not be bothered with weighing evidence. There was an appeals court case in Ohio: "1967, State v. Bratten, 14 Ohio App. 2d 93. Bratten, charged with traveling at a speed greater than was reasonably safe and proper (80 in 70 mph zone), provided evidence that the car was traveling in a manner which was reasonable and proper under the circumstances. Lower court ruling reversed and charge dismissed." That was the last of that. Enter the age of magic numbers aka "maximum limits." Now it's applied to ebikes with a nonsensical 3 class system. Sad but true.

You will get some backlash from some on this forum that will make false claims on how the only reason they have trail access is because of 3-class and that a 20mph assist limit makes sense to keep us all safe even though any bike going down just a 5% slope will 30mph without the rider pedaling (the supporters ignore science and facts you will find because they rely on emotions to voice their opinions). If you can find the "preemption petition" I wrote to the CPSC you might find it an interested read - I tried to kill 3-class legislation because it violates the preemptive clause in HR727 and is an interstate commerce violation but the CPSC stated that until there is a court case a "low speed electric bicycle" per HR727 and any 3-class ebike are different products which in reality means that any HR727 compliant LSEB can be ridden as a bike but it will still take a precedent case to lock that down (I'm working on that).

 

[Ken M]

On the bold, and your agenda in mind, please explain the relevance? Why in the world would throttle vs. PAS make any difference? Is this ANOTHER agenda?

I have always said there should be no legal difference between a throttle assist and a pedal assist because it would so easy to create a throttle assist ebike that required a pedal rotation every say 10 seconds to keep the throttle working and that could easily be defined as pedal assist system because it required pedaling. They didn't think about tech at People for Bikes when they accepted the lobby money to push 3-class legislation.

 

[Handlebars]

You will get some backlash from some on this forum that will make false claims on how the only reason they have trail access is because of 3-class and that a 20mph assist limit makes sense to keep us all safe even though any bike going down just a 5% slope will 30mph without the rider pedaling (the supporters ignore science and facts you will find because they rely on emotions to voice their opinions). If you can find the "preemption petition" I wrote to the CPSC you might find it an interested read - I tried to kill 3-class legislation because it violates the preemptive clause in HR727 and is an interstate commerce violation but the CPSC stated that until there is a court case a "low speed electric bicycle" per HR727 and any 3-class ebike are different products which in reality means that any HR727 compliant LSEB can be ridden as a bike but it will still take a precedent case to lock that down (I'm working on that).

What do you think about bike lanes in cities? It would be insane to ride even the 20mph limit here, between parked vehicles and the sidewalk on streets lined with small stores and cafes, complete with knocked-over lane markers and the occasional concrete parking block pushed sideways across the lane.

 

[d3drturner]

You're new, but this has been hashed over for years in this forum.

So?

 

[d3drturner]

What do you think about bike lanes in cities? It would be insane to ride even the 20mph limit here, between parked vehicles and the sidewalk on streets lined with small stores and cafes, complete with knocked-over lane markers and the occasional concrete parking block pushed sideways across the lane.

That was my point. Can a safe speed be determined by a magic number, whether it be a speed limit or an ebike class? People should ride at a safe speed for the environment.

 

[BEC111]

That was my point. Can a safe speed be determined by a magic number, whether it be a speed limit or an ebike class? People should ride at a safe speed for the environment.

The challenge of a speed limit on a bike trail reminds me of when I lived in Jerome, Arizona in the late 1960’s. To get to town, motorists need to climb a steep twisty road with a speed limit of 15 mph. Many of the cars of the day couldn’t reach the top of the hill if they started at 15 mph. The local cop would be waiting near the bottom and stop cars that passed at above 20 mph. He’d ticket them and follow them up to town where they were immediately brought before the judge where they were assessed a $15 fine. The best part is that the speed limit leaving town, going down the steep hill, was 5 mph.

Yup! The cop was waiting. Another ticket. Another ride up the hill to the judge. Another $15.

A town on the right bike trail could balance its budget with a 15 mph speed limit.

 

[kmccune]

The challenge of a speed limit on a bike trail reminds me of when I lived in Jerome, Arizona in the late 1960’s. To get to town, motorists need to climb a steep twisty road with a speed limit of 15 mph. Many of the cars of the day couldn’t reach the top of the hill if they started at 15 mph. The local cop would be waiting near the bottom and stop cars that passed at above 20 mph. He’d ticket them and follow them up to town where they were immediately brought before the judge where they were assessed a $15 fine. The best part is that the speed limit leaving town, going down the steep hill, was 5 mph.

Yup! The cop was waiting. Another ticket. Another ride up the hill to the judge. Another $15.

A town on the right bike trail could balance its budget with a 15 mph speed limit.

Theres a grade near here where the "Cops" wait for the people coming and going, they come down too fast and try to hit it with a 'sling".
The "Karma " thing that happened a few weeks ago was a "Smokies" cruiser setting up at a jaunty angle when He forgot there was a large culvert end in front of Him ,I suppose He forget during the thrill of the shortly aborted chase that never happened( Wish I would have taken a picture)