Help finding balanced commuter / errand bike < ~$2k

[ianschum]

Hey all I'm yet another hapless ebike novice, who has been swimming in the information vortex for the past few weeks.
Could use some help! Thanks in advance.

First, a bit of background
For the past 10 years I've been occasionally riding an old 1995 Gary Fisher Marlin (same as this one). It has served my needs well enough: the bike is strong and light-enough; I have a basic rear-rack that has allowed for sometimes-commuting; I'm comfortable with the more athletic / aggressive stance; and my added Schwalbe Marathons have literally never had a flat.

But the main problem I have is the one that (I assume) drives a lot of people to ebikes: I would love to use my bike a lot more, except that in Austin, most times of the year, riding more than 1-2 miles will leave my sweaty.
This means I've only ever used it to commute to jobs that offer a locker / shower situation (which is pretty uncommon). If riding didn't require my changing into / out of athletic clothes, I would probably only drive my car 1-2 times a week.

Right now I have a new job that is only 3.5 miles away ... but still ... if I wear nice clothes on my bike, I will sweat through them.

Then, checking my assumptions
Now you know where I'm coming from. So my first question: is getting an ebike a reasonable way to solve this problem?

I'm assuming I have this figured correctly. This recent piece from Outside Magazine about ebikes made me think I was onto something. E.g. that people with ebikes end up using them more than a regular bike, and replacing a good chunk of car usage with them. That's the dream right there -- that's what I'm after.

I'd love to get some confirmation on this. Or, maybe ebikes come with their own hidden pains that I have to be wary of? More complex maintenance, etc.? My Gary Fisher has allowed me to be pretty dang lazy about maintenance, so I've been spoiled there.

Finally, choosing a bike

In my head, here are the must-have boxes I want to check with my new ebike:

1. Provides enough power that I can ride say 4-6 miles, with only very shallow hills, at 75° temps, without breaking a sweat
2. Rear or front basket, or at least bosses for rear rack attachment -- for laptop bag, occasional groceries, etc.
3. Style & wheels suitable for long straightaways where I will happily go over 20mph*

* because I've heard that mini-sized bikes like the M Class can feel 'squirrelly' (unstable?) once you get them going fast

Then there are some nice-to-haves, question marks added where I'm unsure:

• mid-drive for a more intuitive / responsive riding feel (?)
• internally geared hub for lower maintenance needs (?)
• chain guard(s) to protect pants
• buy from local shop to get dedicated maintenance help (?)
• somewhat lightweight, e.g. < 50lbs
• fenders
• good-looking! (subjective, of course)

Finally, I'd really like to stay below $2,000. If someone can point out a specimen that is e.g. over $2000 but totally worth it for XYZ reasons, then I am open to convincing.

Some candidates so far

I've been through a bunch of reviews and pulled together a few that I think could work. Happy to get suggestions on what I'm missing, or what should be stricken from the list. Prices are listed with the configuration I'd choose, plus shipping, minus any discounts.

1. Propella 7-speed v3.2 ($1350 shipped) - Looks gorgeous, is cheap and lightweight. Range might be an issue (not to mention power), but a second battery looks very portable / affordable. Unclear on whether this bike is serious enough to take over car duty on a regular basis.
2. Wing Freedom ($1350 w/coupon) - Fatter frame than Propella, otherwise similar concerns as Propella.
3. Ariel Rider M Class ($1720 w/front basket) - Checks boxes for mid drive and IGH at a really good price . Not necessarily as attractive, but reviews suggest it's really well-designed and customer service from Ariel is good. Major concern is that I've never ridden a mini(ish) style bike and I'm unsure what I'm giving up compared to the 26" tires I'm used to.
4. Then there's a series of bikes around $2000-and-up that are more fully-loaded, and could be nearly compromise-free. I believe several of these could be either sourced locally (in the case of MOD) or at least ordered through a local bike shop due to the name brands: Batch E-Commuter ($1999), FLX Roadster ($2150 touring package), Trek Verve+ (1 or 2), MOD Berlin ($2600).

Obviously the higher up the list we go, the more we see standard racks, fenders, mid drives, IGHs, chain guards, and so on. I like all these things but I'm a little unclear how much I will really need them.

I also have a big question mark on the value of buying local. I don't know a ton about bike maintenance yet, but I'm a problem-solver and don't mind learning; on the other hand, I don't want to acquire bike maintenance as a part-time job, if you get my meaning. I was spoiled by only riding my Gary Fisher occasionally and basically ignoring its maintenance until something broke. I don't want to be so negligent with a machine that costs as much as these ebikes might! As I understand it, local bike shops will generally service their own bikes, right? Not necessarily for free ... but at all, if I understand correctly. How much should I value this perk? Or in other words, what's the value of the maintenance cost that's missing from the lower-priced bikes on this list?

#####

Thanks for reading a long-ass post I really appreciate all comments and guidance.

 

[ianschum]

Should mention ... I've also briefly considered fat-tire, moped-ish options like the D Class or (of course) the RadRunner. My impression with these bikes is that they are heavy and don't really work well for peddling -- they're made to rely more heavily on the throttle.

^ I'm not sure if these are good reasons to pass them over. Coming from the non-ebike world I have a fear of a battery connection failing or a motor dying, and needing to peddle a 75-lb beast home from wherever I am. This scene becomes a lot less scary if I'm using a 37 lb Propella, of course.

If these perceptions seem misguided, though ... please correct me

 

[indianajo]

Uh, I like 26" or bigger, 2" or bigger, tires to smooth out the roads. Important if you are going over 10 mph. I'll let you wade through your choices to see if they meet that. With potholes around, you do not want a 20" wheel bike. At least I don't. Suspensions are out of your budget limit. Suspension is nice over 15 mph.
Disk brakes are important to ride in the rain. I hit a car a 3 mph after stopping at a stop sign & she didn't, no more rim brakes for me. I have 160 mm tektro cable pull disk brakes, which are fine. About 4000 miles on the pads used the most, pad position adjustment every 2000 miles.
Bafang rear hub motor is reliable. If it is a geared hub, it is not hard to pedal home, it has a slip clutch so you don't drag the motor with your feet. Mid drives do not except the Yamaha, maybe one model of Shimano.
In carrying groceries, baskets on the back unbalance the bike and lead to the front wheel skidding sideways. You see I've bought a stretch frame cargo bike left, which puts my weight on the front wheel and solves that problem. Radrover cargo bike is in your budget limit, but has a DD motor which drags unpowered like 2 gears higher than you are in. Also a direct sale bike, you are the repair dept. Other cargo bikes xtracycle, yubabikes, pedego stretch (expensive). reiss & Muller (more expensive). Kona Ute is a stretch frame w/o motor, shows up used sometimes on craigslist etc. My geared power wheel plus controller display brake handles throttle PAS sensor from ebikeling was $230, the DD power wheel w/o display w/o PAS was $189. 17 ah luna 48 v battery was $630, $40 more for 3 level charger. Don't go cheap on a battery, luna ebikeling or california e-bike only. You don't need 17 ah for a 10 mile RT commute. I do for 30 very hilly miles gross weight 320 lb.
Fully bumpy off road tires get me about 2000 miles before they start picking up trash & go flat. I use Kenda. Yes, the bumps make a noise. Not as loud as my epithets if I do get a flat. I change out when bumps about 1/16" high.
I broke a brake cable at 2 years, had to change out the street tires at 700 miles to my Kendas. Other than that no maintenance except lubrication and tightening screws/nuts occasionally. Lube every 2 weeks since the bike stays out in the rain a lot.
Mid drives require a new chain every 1000 miles or so if above 7 speeds, 2-3000 miles for 7 speed. I've got 5000 miles on my chain & haven't measured it yet, since a hub drive doesn't stretch it unduly.
Integrated "pretty" batteries sometimes have connection problems & rain on the connectors problems. See the brand forums. My home-installed Dorman bullett connectors on a Luna battery are absolutely maintenance and glitch free. XT90/60 is pretty good too, if factory installed. Spade lugs under screws as my kit controller are fine too. Use Klein or Ideal tool to crimp Dorman, 3m Ideal T&B or Panduit terminals, pull test after crimping for quality. NO ****ese trash terminals, they melt out at 26 amps.
Displays get foggy in the rain, see if a bike will run without it before you buy it. My 2nd kit has none. The up & down buttons for PAS level seem to be rain resistant, as is the throttle on my $189 from amazon power wheel kit. My controller is hung under the seat with wires down to prevent water from getting in the controller, make sure anything you buy has the rain resistance thought out as well. Like ask the shop "where is the controller?" Wires up is stupid, IMHO.
There should be enough shops in Austin you should not have to buy off the internet. Try magnum for dealer location, it has hub motors.
I ride nearly every day and use my wife's car only for vacations. I buy my own groceries & home store supplies. I can carry up to 80 lb on my cargo bike. Important since I have a diet soda habit, and a summer camp where all the supplies have to be carried out from the city. A standard frame bike you should stay under 40 lb unless half the weight is on the front.
there is a steep hill in Austin by the Capitol, you probably need 32:32 sprockets to get up that unpowered. Other ones 42:28 is probably okay. You can check what sprockets you need on an unpowered bike you get from a charity resale shop or flea market. Or a shop should let you test ride. My yuba has 32:32 to 52:11, one reason I bought it. SRAM shifters too, more precise than 7 speed shimano which is kiddie grade.
Think about security in Austin. Taking the battery into work is best, check how long to unhook. My self built housing has a lot of "WTF" factor, nobody has stolen my battery yet parked on the street or at the grocery or HD store. I use 12 mm x 7 ' cable with a master grade 11 lock to light poles, gas meters, live electrical conduits. Maybe upgrade to a 1/2" SS cable in Austin, you might have pro bike thieves. Or one of those 50 lb chains. U locks won't reach anything fixed in my town.
Best of luck shopping.

 

[ianschum]

Not as loud as my epithets if I do get a flat.

Nice

I appreciate all the thoughts! It sounds like you have a different set of riding patterns than me and you're a lot more comfortable with DIY work. I'm not there yet, so ... I'm not sure I can pull out any useful insights from what you've said. Really good data though. Thank you!

 

[harryS]

The market has grown a bit and we're seeing a lot more bikes in the entry level range with some support. Your commute is not very daunting. I've a couple of beater e-bikes that can do a 10 mile commute. There's no excitement in them. They don't spring to life under your seat. like an 18 pound road bike but they push you along at 15 mph w/o any effort. I can use the throttle if I don't want to pedal. It probably takes about 60-90 minutes to recharge after a 10 mile ride.

I'd suggest a low cost no frills ebike for the drudge ride to work. You still have your pedal bike to satisfy your biking whims on your own time. Treat it like a heavy slow bike, and you can get by fine with rim brakes or the inexpensive Tektro mechanical disks they use on these bikes. Who cares if it's a Shimano Tourney level shifter, as long as it's adjusted.

 

[Browneye]

Expand the budget a bit and get the Trek Verve+
You'll thank us later.
Otherwise the Aventon Pace models would be another option depending on what your local bike shop has.
Lots of specialty shops popping up.

 

[harryS]

Hi Browneye, would you consider your wife's newly converted Raleigh reliable enough for a commute like this?

 

[ianschum]

Expand the budget a bit and get the Trek Verve+

Thanks for the tip. Any clarification on why this is the one that stands out from the rest?

 

[Browneye]

Thanks for the tip. Any clarification on why this is the one that stands out from the rest?

Most of the mid-drive 'quality' bikes are more - this one is a great value and it's a Trek so you can't miss. It's a little short on raw power at 40nm whereas the faster CX or the Yamaha or Brose motors are about twice that. I test rode one and was pleasantly surprise - probly would have bought one but didn't need fenders and really wanted a suspension fork, so I got the Giant Explore. Phenomenal bike for the money.

Most of the decent mid-drive trekking bikes with fenders are closer to $3K and up.

You might see what you can get a Haibike cross bike for - they have a sduro trekking that's really nice but even more $$ than the Trek unless you can find a sale.

There are plenty of hub-drive ebikes for less. Test ride them all and then decide. We have one of each and like them both.

 

[Browneye]

Hi Browneye, would you consider your wife's newly converted Raleigh reliable enough for a commute like this?

Hers is a Specialized Roll Sport - Bafang 500w geared hub with 48v 11ah 'hailong' battery. Was a kit - they come from china via Aliexpress, amazon, or ebay. Definitely a DiY building project.

But yeah, I've done a lot of little tweaks - converted the 3-chain-ring crank to a 42t single. Little tweaks for her, and it's solid. Easy commuter for sure. Range seems to be 40-50 miles or so, but she doesn't push it that hard, mostly 12-15mph. I have it speed-limited to 20mph, but the max is 32. Technically it's a class 3, but easily passes for a C2.

We paid about $600 for the bike new in 2016. The kit was $650, and I've probly spent another hundred or so on ancillary items.

I need to get some better photos of it...

 

[flipper]

well, i might as well throw in a recommendation for a magnum cruiser or lowrider. retail is 2250 but i dickered a bit and got mine for 2k delivered. front suspension. hydraulic brakes. rear rack, bottle bosses that i use for my foldylock, lighter than a lot of bikes at 58 lbs, fenders standard, etc. i checked and i don't think they have an austin dealer, but you can get one shipped to you at no cost. so ... also, court's review of it is very positive.

 

[ianschum]

well, i might as well throw in a recommendation for a magnum cruiser or lowrider

Thanks for the reminder, I had gotten a good impression of the UI6 or Metro+. What is it that pushed you into the slightly higher end with them?

 

[ianschum]

Most of the mid-drive 'quality' bikes are more - this one is a great value and it's a Trek so you can't miss

This sounds good. But uh ... so I'm trying to get a more systematic understanding of the tradeoffs. It sounds like you may have skipped that step in your analysis. Could you help me follow the logic of why I should pass on the lower-end / direct-to-consumer models like a Propella or (more widely reviewed) Ariel Rider? Does it just come down to the problem of getting service / maintenance done, and lacking a local bike shop who can do that? (Pretty sure I could avoid that problem with the Trek, of course)

^ This kinda points at my original question about what's the rough dollar value of having a local bike mechanic?, ya know. I have not ever owned a serious bike, electric-powered or otherwise, so I'm trying to get a sense of what I'm in for when I suddenly start relying on one for everyday transit. If I go with an online brand, should I just consider it guaranteed that I'll have to spend a few hours a month (?) making tweaks and fixes?

I know you can't give guarantees about anything, but just trying to get the lay of the land.

 

[flipper]

Thanks for the reminder, I had gotten a good impression of the UI6 or Metro+. What is it that pushed you into the slightly higher end with them?

due to balance issues, I needed a bike where my feet could rest flat on the ground when i'm at a standstill, and the cruiser/lowrider both are foot-forward designs and allow that. plus, the lowrider has a step through frame, which i also needed.

as to having to tinker and fix, in the past i've owned ebikes by pedego, ejoe and rad and never had to tinker with any of them except for a bit of brake adjustment here and there. then again, they weren't every day commuters but still ....

 

[Browneye]

This sounds good. But uh ... so I'm trying to get a more systematic understanding of the tradeoffs. It sounds like you may have skipped that step in your analysis. Could you help me follow the logic of why I should pass on the lower-end / direct-to-consumer models like a Propella or (more widely reviewed) Ariel Rider? Does it just come down to the problem of getting service / maintenance done, and lacking a local bike shop who can do that? (Pretty sure I could avoid that problem with the Trek, of course)

^ This kinda points at my original question about what's the rough dollar value of having a local bike mechanic?, ya know. I have not ever owned a serious bike, electric-powered or otherwise, so I'm trying to get a sense of what I'm in for when I suddenly start relying on one for everyday transit. If I go with an online brand, should I just consider it guaranteed that I'll have to spend a few hours a month (?) making tweaks and fixes?

I know you can't give guarantees about anything, but just trying to get the lay of the land.

In your intro there were several criteria, none of which are insurmountable with any ebike. And yes, any of them will get you four or five miles easily without breaking a sweat. Wait, Austin TX, summer time?? 95 and 90% humidity? I dunno man... LOL

You mentioned 20mph speed - if you're a regular bike rider I would skip the mini-wheeled version, but that's just me. I would encourage you to ride one and see how it works for you. In fact, trying a few out will go far in helping create a criteria of likes and dislikes.

IMO there are three factors at play..
1. Budget - if you really have a firm budget then that helps narrow down choices.
2. Mechanical ability - while a lot of work isn't expected per se, lots of people have had lots of problems they were unable to address - failed systems, poor performance, broken components. Most of this you hear with the lower-end units, but surely some better ones too - a $7K Specialized with a cracked frame, for example. Can you diagnose electronics and fix mechanical issues? Or do you rely on a trained technician for these kinds of things? Some people can build stuff from scratch, some don't know one end of a wrench from another. Assessing your own ability helps assist in making the best choice for YOU. If you have broken spokes or grinding brakes, or a battery that won't hold a charge, are you able to address these types of issues yourself if necessary? Should you expect issues with a lower-end product? I think you should - they are common.
3. Assumed usage - surely a daily commuter puts more demand on their bike than a recreational user. I'm likely a thousand mile a year rider - then people like @Thomas Jaszewski come along and advise you reassess after 5 or 10 thousand miles - I'm never going to be in that category. But he admittedly approaches the whole thing from a builder standpoint as opposed to buying a built bike from the big-3 or 4. He can surely comment on what kind of maintenance and component failure to look out for or consider.

The first thing I would recommend is that you try enough of them to assess which drive system works better for you - a hub-drive, like a geared hub or direct drive hub - in your examples there were low-wattage hub-drives. Our Roll conversion is a 48v 500w Bafang - it works great but I wouldn't want any less. IMO a 250 or 350w hub-drive is not enough.

For the mid-drives, all of them have been around long enough to have been updated and refined so as to be smooth and dependable. And they all come from the larger bike builders, the bigger players in the biz, like Giant Trek, Specialized, etc. And these are all well supported by local independent bike shops that have been around for a long while. You can rest assured you will get a dependable machine with a dealer to back it up. For many this is the difference between happy and sad, depending on their own ability.

There has to be a plethora of shops in the Austin area, so I would hit a few of them and see what they offer, try them out, see what you like. Then make a decision if you're good going on your own with a direct shipper or if having a shop to back you up fits better. And you'll tend to gravitate toward either a hub-drive type or a more sophisticated mid-drive type. Without digging into the pros and cons for each, know that the mid-drive is much more efficient since you also use the bikes gears as mechanical leverage, whereas the hub-drive does not - it does what it does regardless of your gears. But putting your power through your drivetrain also stresses it more, so there's that tradeoff. For example, mountain bikes require multiplied power for extreme terrain, and all are sophisticated mid-drives. A good one is expensive in comparison urban/commuter as well.

So this covers those 3 basic points. After that it's a matter of choosing something that has the features and functions you're after, like racks and cargo carrying, etc. And appearance if that means anything. For example, do you drive a Toyota or Kia, or a Porsche or Mercedes? Does higher end performance and aesthetics mean anything to YOU? For many the very basics are completely satisfactory.

For your short commute the smaller batteries will get you there. But the entire industry is moving to larger capacities and longer run times because people tend to go further once they become accustomed to having the electric assist.

The Ben Franklin quote on the bitterness of poor quality is surely appropo here. Asia-Pacific is by far the largest builder and consumers of bicycles in general, so sourcing from there and trying to capitalize on the industry growth makes for lots of start-up companies/dealers here in the states. Just know that most of them will not survive, nor will their product. But surely there are some good options out there, you pays your monies and takes your chances with them.

 

[ianschum]

Thanks @Browneye! That is super duper helpful. Thanks for taking the time to write all this out for me. Really appreciate it.

Sounds like step 1 is gonna be to get some test rides under my belt, rather than spending more hours on the internet. Your other points are definitely going to prove useful too, once I get closer to a buying decision. Interesting point about the behavioral changes after getting used to having electric assist -- I could certainly see how that changes my patterns of usage and leads to longer trips.

Thanks again!

 

[Greg Johnson]

Thanks @Browneye! That is super duper helpful. Thanks for taking the time to write all this out for me. Really appreciate it.

Sounds like step 1 is gonna be to get some test rides under my belt, rather than spending more hours on the internet. Your other points are definitely going to prove useful too, once I get closer to a buying decision. Interesting point about the behavioral changes after getting used to having electric assist -- I could certainly see how that changes my patterns of usage and leads to longer trips.

Thanks again!

All excellent advice above and I spent months testing several bikes and even more time reading information on this forum it is beyond helpful and provides insight. Bottom line everybody’s needs and criteria are different so ride as many as possible and find the correct fit for you. It was important for me to have a LBS nearby as I was able to do basic adjustments on traditional bikes throughout the years, but wanted to be near a shop for issues with the electronics and battery and motor. In previous posts I have spoken that I ended up buying a his and hers trek verve plus for my wife and myself.
My local Trek dealer has been outstanding as I was a complete newbie to the E bike process. I have been back numerous times to ask questions and I never feel rushed and they even showed me how to do basic maintenance without charging me. They have regular classes and seminars that are fun and educational.
The basic reasons we chose the Verve are this. At about 50 pounds including the rear rack and various tools and accessories it is much lighter than many E bikes. My wife and I have mobility issues and it is easier to lift this bike in our van or onto the back of a rack. It looks like a traditional bike with the mid drive and peddling feels extremely natural and intuitive. Some of the hub drives I tested felt overpowering and like I was either being pushed or pulled. Power has never been a problem even on moderate to steep hills you just use the gears in unison with the PAS. On mostly flat surfaces using only the first level assist I can usually get 60 miles per charge. This bike rolls extremely well is absolutely silent and I have topped 40 mph on down hills and felt in complete control. The integrated front headlight is very bright and a bonus for riding at night or at dusk.
We got both bikes for 2K each. We could have spent several hundred dollars less on a online purchase but over the long haul I believe it will cost less to maintain and in components on this than some of the lesser expensive bikes. Keep us posted what you choose it is truly life-changing to be able to ride distances that I never could attain before.

 

[rich c]

I have to admit that I didn't read all the responses, so I apologize if this was mentioned. A commuter bike should have full leg extension and clip in pedals for the most efficient peddling effort. That is far from achievable with those moped-ish, mini-bike look alikes. Stay with a full sized bike.

 

[tomjasz]

There’s a bike shop in Austin with one of best EBike mechanix around. Chalo has guided me through a couple of perplexing builds. He’s also completed builds for several Austin aquaintances. I’m hunting the contact info....

 

[tomjasz]