Help finding balanced commuter / errand bike < ~$2k

[McCorby]

That is amazing at 42lbs
Is this a yamaha drive bike?
500 wh battery?

No, it’s a Shimano STEPS E8000 with 500Wh battery. Check out the review I linked above.

 

[Ebiker01]

Wow , after like 5pages of hundreds of messages you haven’t gotten a proper ebike ?
Winter is here, might be better to back off now , consider that at least you learned A LOT and start with another thread in March when newer ebikes will be available !
There are many bikes company that release their 2020 products In Feb/March.

 

[ianschum]

Well, I've got a bike now

Found a good deal on a Gazelle CityZen T10 Speed. It's several hundred bucks above my originally stated ceiling of $2k ... and I'm expecting it'll be well worth it.

For what it's worth, all the discussion and shared perspectives in this thread definitely informed my final decision!

Should be arriving in the mail late next week. I'll share my excitement when I've got it put together and rolling.

 

[e-boy]

Congratulations .
What was it during the test drive that convinced you to pull the trigger on this one ?

 

[ianschum]

Well ... ... I didn't actually test ride the CityZen, but found it listed with an online retailer who was extremely helpful in answering my questions and making recommendations.
This model was already on my list of 'finalists', and seemed to be one of the only ones without some compromise that represented a risk to me.

• The MOD Berlin looked like a wonderful machine at a great price, but its standover height pushes the level of comfort for me. And I hate to say this, but the owner's mention of their struggle with the trade war tariffs reminded me that smaller startups can be wiped off the map when the economic weather changes; so while their product support and service were going to be absolutely exceptional, I had a 5% concern that MOD Bikes might end up being one of those casualties, which would leave me maintaining the bike on my own (with a custom-sourced non-standard Shenyi drive system).
• The FLX Roadster looked like another good contender -- it's an awesome price for a seemingly very powerful and well-spec'd bike, with or without commuter features (which is somehow about ~5-10lbs lighter than the other contenders here). But for ongoing maintenance that goes beyond my (as of now basic) abilities, I would have needed to find a friendly LBS, because of course FLX is one of many direct to consumer companies. This one uses the well-known Bafang M600 drive (clarified their 'special edition' model is the newer edition M600 with metal gears) ... but still got that anxiety of having the closest guaranteed support location be several states away.
• The Giant Explore and LaFree models all looked promising, but everything I could find came with some compromise or another. The LaFree+ 1 was super interesting with a belt drive and internal geared hub, but it had a less-powerful motor compared to the other options in this list (though still better than the Trek Verve+); I also don't love the cruiser frame which favors an upright posture; I would have had to raise the seat and lower the handlebars as much as I could to get into the riding position I wanted. The Explore looked much better overall, and certainly powerful enough; but I would have needed to buy some components to turn it into the commuter I wanted -- swapping tires, adding fenders, and so on. That brought the effective price up by probably $100 - $200, which pushed it into the neighborhood of what I'd end up paying for the CityZen T10.

There were several other candidates that were sale-priced in the middle of my range, but they lost out because of another factor that I decided on late in the process -- I wanted Class 3 speeds. The Mod Berlin and FLX Roadster could be configured that way, but many others could not -- including the Giant models too.

The CityZen was kinda the only one within reach that didn't seem to suffer from any of the compromises above -- the frame will fit me perfectly and the geometry (aside from top tube angle) is pretty similar to my beloved old Gary Fisher right now; it's totally feature-complete for commuting and I won't need to change out any components up-front; it's got a super well-known and time-tested Bosch drive, at the top of their Performance line; and it's backed by a long-lived manufacturer that has dealer relationships with a couple places in Austin – so for ongoing service, I know I'm covered.

I think the overall thought process toward the end was just realizing:

1. Yes I'm fairly handy and definitely don't mind learning new mechanical skills,
2. Therefore I'm sure that I could have made any of these finalists work for me with a bit of time and attention,
3. But I did not set out to shop for a new hobby. I have plenty of hobbies already.
4. What I wanted to shop for was a long-term, reliable, enjoyable, sustainable transit option to compete with my car

So the CityZen essentially represented the least risky / most complete / most confident pick for that purpose.

... Or at least, this is the story that I've told myself

 

[ianschum]

Oh and also, it's pretty! (these are EBR's photos)

Obviously aesthetics are a personal choice. And I might be doing some post-facto rationalization here, but anyway:

• The MOD Berlin (silver) tiptoes toward a more 'classic' look, not my preference.
• The Giant Explore looks sporty / techy, esp. with the conspicuously bulging downtube.
• Another earlier candidate, the Ariel Rider M-Class, is super cute in its mini-velo way, but a bit of an acquired flavor.

For my taste, the CityZen T10 and the FLX Roadster were the winners on looks. This stuff matters ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[e-boy]

Sounds like you made a great choice !

 

[ianschum]

Sounds like you made a great choice !

Thanks!

Or at very least, I'm a good enough debater that I've effectively marshaled a bunch of rationalizations to defend my extravagant purchase

Extravagance is relative, of course. For some, this Gazelle is a whopping 2x the cost of a perfectly capable Juiced / Rad / Ariel / Ride1Up. For others, this is a mid-range entry that ticks the minimum acceptable boxes for a full-time commuter. Or so I imagine.

Anyway, I'll complete the loop with some initial impressions and pics when I start riding on it. All just to leave a helpful trail of learning for others following later...

 

[e-boy]

How's the Gazelle ?

 

[ianschum]

Ha, thanks for reminding me to follow up here

The bad news is: unfortunately the bike arrived in a not-quite-rideable condition.
The good news is: the retailer (San Diego Fly Rides) is doing a great job hassling Gazelle on my behalf and making things right.

The bike itself is awesome, and once the issue (described below) gets ironed out, it's going to a ton of fun to ride.

But meanwhile, the issue(s):
When the bike arrived, the battery was absolutely stuck inside the frame's battery cavity. I looked over instructions carefully, diagrams on Gazelle's site, re-watched the video review of the T10 Speed ... but all of these suggested that when I unlocked the battery (the newish PowerTube 500) it should just pop out of the frame without a lot of force.

I used plastic levers and eventually had to apply a lot of force to get the battery finally out of the frame. I damaged the battery cover in the process – but fortunately this is a cheap and easily-replaced part.

After the battery was finally out, I played with it over the course of a couple sessions / couple of hours to see what was up. If the battery cover was attached to the battery, it was virtually impossible to get it back into its slot in the frame. Which means somebody at the factory just basically shoved it into the frame prior to shipping – thus the origin of my first problem

Eventually I figured out the full extent of the mistakes that had been made:

1. Top battery bracket
   Inside the frame, there's a bracket near the top of the downtube, where the battery makes positive electrical contacts. This bracket also sets the depth of the battery, aka how far it should sink into the frame. This bracket had not been adjusted at all, which meant there wasn't enough space for the battery to slide into position. Once I found and adjusted it, the battery finally fit into the frame easily.
   
   
2. Battery lock spring-assist
   On the other end of the battery near the bottom of the downtube, there's the battery locking mechanism. The rotating arm of the locking mechanism is supposed to be spring assisted – this makes sure that the lock always pops back into the correct position after letting go of the key, and it helps "pop" the battery out of the frame when you're removing it. The lock had been incorrectly assembled so the spring was just sitting there, disengaged from the locking arm, doing nothing at all. Once I saw what was supposed to happen, I reassembled the lock and it started behaving for the first time.
   
   
3. Missing battery damper
   Once I fixed the first two problems, the battery made positive electrical contacts, it popped into and out of the frame smoothly, and the bike seemed ready to ride! So I rode it a couple of miles around the neighborhood. The good news is that this bike seems awesome for me. The drive system kicks in like butter, and feels plenty powerful for my taste. The remaining bad news is that every time I hit the slightest bump, the bike loses power for a moment. By this point I had gotten in touch with the head of service with the retailer, had sent him a couple of videos, and he confirmed that my bike seemed to still be missing a battery damper, which I gather is a foam plate or gasket that helps the battery to maintain solid electrical contact while it's being bounced around. Without the damper, well ... it bounces around

Next steps ...
All this ^ has been pretty disappointing to say the least. But on the bright side, the retailer has been on my side from the start. So they've agreed to provide the following:

• Talked to Gazelle on my behalf, who is shipping a new battery cover, and a new damper
• Will be giving me a $100 credit to cover my time and disappointment
• Recommended that I get the battery / frame hardware precisely adjusted by a local Bosch-savvy bike shop – and they will reimburse me for the labor

Those pieces haven't arrived yet, and I'm waiting to see the $100 credit on my CC statement, but ... they've been up-front and helpful from the start, so I have high hopes at this point.

In conclusion:

• Gazelle CityZen T10 Speed:
• Gazelle quality control:
• San Diego Fly Rides:

 

[rich c]

After all that research, now you have to research problems, then research becoming a bicycle mechanic. This has become a part time job for you!

 

[ianschum]

After all that research, now you have to research problems, then research becoming a bicycle mechanic. This has become a part time job for you!

Heh, I had this thought myself.

The total time invested so far is something like 3-4 hours. That's including assembly out of the box, playing around with the battery / lock hardware, and communication with the retailer. True, this has been a little more work than I expected. On the other hand, I had expected to have to do some work and learning when I first received my bike. Figuring out the battery / lock issues wasn't bad.

So far, it seems like there's nothing else wrong with the bike aside from this problem. That might be sanguine but I'm looking forward to being a rider of the bike in January, more than being its mechanic. We'll see how that goes.

I also don't know how different this experience would have been if I went with a lower-cost, direct-to-consumer brand. I know there are a lot of stories of QC and warranty problems from bigger / cheaper names like Rad or Juiced – whether the stories are statistically significant is a different question, and I'm not trying to weigh in on that debate here! But at very least, I get the sense that this QC issue with Gazelle is exceedingly rare. And I'm looking forward (if I understand correctly) to the long-term service that I can expect with a Bosch drive and battery.

In other words: yes I had to learn a few things; it wasn't bad, and was borderline enjoyable to figure out; if I had to do this all the time, that might get irritating; I am unclear whether "all the time" would have applied to a cheaper bike, but I feel optimistic that it won't apply to this one.

 

[Ebiker01]

The other brands have far more issues and QC problems: Specialized, Giant, Stromers, Rad, Juiced , Trek also..

I see R&M, BH Easy motion, Gazelle, Tern , as the only ones that are very reliable and don’t require you to get a bike mechanic license in order to have the ebike in top shape.