Help finding a mid-drive, torque ebike with a throttle and natural pedal assist?

[linklemming]

You people of the United States do not respect your own laws reading "throttle = Class 2"? And I thought the United States was a country based on the law.
Now, a banana republic? "Me want, cheap cheap cheap, I'm so lazy. Nobody would enforce the law". Guys, admit you are hypocrites. My friend J McC could uninstall the throttle to be a law abiding citizen but he finds excuses.

It makes me want to puke and I think I will leave these Forums. No place for me after Alaskan had died.

P.S. 122 km today, a low power e-bike, no throttle. How odd.

I find it funny that you call people on these forums hypocrites. You are by far the biggest hypocrite on these forums which I have easily demonstrated multiple times.

You are simply projecting.

Please puke and leave these forums...or at least anything where you are not the OP

 

[GizmoEV]

You people of the United States do not respect your own laws reading "throttle = Class 2"?

So how is wanting a throttle on a middrive bike with torque sensor not respecting our laws? No one here is trying to redefine the classes. The problem is you are so bent out of shape over something which absolutely does not concern you that you aren't making sense. It doesn't concern you, move on and enjoy your ride. Let everyone else enjoy their rides. Get off your high horse and go for a bike ride.

 

[Taylor57]

So how is wanting a throttle on a middrive bike with torque sensor not respecting our laws? No one here is trying to redefine the classes. The problem is you are so bent out of shape over something which absolutely does not concern you that you aren't making sense. It doesn't concern you, move on and enjoy your ride. Let everyone else enjoy their rides. Get off your high horse and go for a bike ride.

I put that yahoo on ignore a couple of years back!

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

And to add, as dreaded american owning a canadian surface604 bike like Jeremy, why the rage?

Like many Americans, I view the Canadians as an exceptionally civil and law-abiding people. Not sure it's even possible to break a law on a Canadian ebike.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So how is wanting a throttle on a middrive bike with torque sensor not respecting our laws?

You people mostly ride Class 1 or Class 3 e-bikes. A mid-drive e-bike requires pedalling to operate (as it measures the torque and cadence at the crank). Now, the throttle is only allowed on Class 2. A throttle operated Class 3 e-bike becomes a moped, and it is not a street legal e-bike. Should I also mention "1000 W or more"?

No one here is trying to redefine the classes.

No? How often I could hear on the EBR Forums: 'When I disconnect the throttle, my e-bike becomes Class 1'. Not. An e-bike is designed as belonging to one of the three classes. You must not change the Class as you please.

Throttle might be allowed in Canada. As well as the 32 km/h (20 mph) and the max motor power of 500 W. I accept it is Class 2, Jeremy.

 

[GizmoEV]

You people mostly ride Class 1 or Class 3 e-bikes.

Really? Where did you get that data? Not that it makes any difference to the discussion.

A mid-drive e-bike requires pedalling to operate (as it measures the torque and cadence at the crank).

Wow, you really think that a throttle can't work on a mid drive! I'll make sure not to hire you for engineering or design then.

How often I could hear on the EBR Forums: 'When I disconnect the throttle, my e-bike becomes Class 1'. Not.

Actually it does become a class 1 because it fits the definition of a class 1 bike at that point. If I want, I can disconnect and remove the throttle on my class 2 bike, take it to the dealer and get the class 2 sticker replaced with a class 1 sticker. All legal.

 

[Gionnirocket]

You 'vill ride as I tell you. . . and furthermore you 'vill like it!

​

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Wow, you really think that a throttle can't work on a mid drive! I'll make sure not to hire you for engineering or design then.

Of course it can. Defeating the whole purpose of the mid-drive motor. (The "throttle" in the mid-drive motor are your legs).

Actually it does become a class 1 because it fits the definition of a class 1 bike at that point. If I want, I can disconnect and remove the throttle on my class 2 bike, take it to the dealer and get the class 2 sticker replaced with a class 1 sticker. All legal.

This is what Americans like you believe is legal. Same as fitting a throttle with a Class 3 motor because you can do it.
Or, people like you believe it is legal to swap Class labels on the same e-bike (because of course you would ride a Class 3 e-bike up to 20 mph and "will respect other users" on the MUP or forest trail. You yourself might but unfortunately the law is for everyone, including yahoos.

Really? Where did you get that data? Not that it makes any difference to the discussion.

Read the Forums.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I do exactly what you do, and it works just fine.

Your bike is no doubt superior to mine in many ways. But mine does what I need it to do, and I feel no great need to replace it with one you'd approve of.

Let's just agree to disagree on this matter and move on.

Well this escalated over the weekend! I agree with you Jeremy. Just leave it be Stefan. Live and let live!

And perhaps take a step back from the forums for a while if you are getting so angry all the time. You seem to want to pick fights with everyone recently. If it's not throttles, it's gates carbon drives or gear boxes and you'll fight everyone, regardless of their knowledge base like Ravi, who after all has probably got a bit more knowledge on these things because you know, he runs his own e bike company - and is always unfailingly polite.

Some people like throttles, some don't. Big deal. I like bikes. If I won the lottery I'd buy a lot more bikes. A lot of strange fantastic and unsuitable bikes for a 53 year old. And I would have so much bloody fun on all of them.

 

[rarobo]

Well this escalated over the weekend! I agree with you Jeremy. Just leave it be Stefan. Live and let live!

And perhaps take a step back from the forums for a while if you are getting so angry all the time. You seem to want to pick fights with everyone recently. If it's not throttles, it's gates carbon drives or gear boxes and you'll fight everyone, regardless of their knowledge base like Ravi, who after all has probably got a bit more knowledge on these things because you know, he runs his own e bike company - and is always unfailingly polite.

Some people like throttles, some don't. Big deal. I like bikes. If I won the lottery I'd buy a lot more bikes. A lot of strange fantastic and unsuitable bikes for a 53 year old. And I would have so much bloody fun on all of them.

X2

 

[Doggyman1202]

All true, and the people who feel they can do anything they want appear to be growing in the US — thanks in no small part to certain prominent politicians of the last 10 years or so.

So true. I regularly see an individual on a noisy gas powered bike/ scooter of sorts burning up a few local public paths. No enforcement evidently, since I've been seeing this entitled miscreant for over a year now.

 

[Doggyman1202]

Yes, it does.
They know "cycling" is all about "pedalling". I could ride together with them, same as I ride with my 75 years old cycling friend. People who cannot pedal shall name their steeds the proper name: "mopeds".

I laugh, but I'm really of two minds. My libertarian side believes people should be able to throttle/moped down the path as long as they observe local regulations and exhibit courtesy. I also fully understand that some riders need to have them, be it for injury, illness, mobility, weight or any number of good reasons. I might need to use one myself at some point.

On the other hand, I see lazy throttle users as an embarrassment to the rest of us e-bike peddlers. I can't justify that point of view morally but I never have a conversation with those "uninitiated" to e-bikes without having to explain why they're not Mopeds. (My own sibling didn't understand why I said I was tired after a 60 mile plus ride the other day. My sister said: "You're riding an e-bike. Why are you tired?"). Doh!!

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

What's missing here is the broad middle ground of throttle use. Nothing about having one at your disposal compels you to abandon the pedals and "just throttle around".

Like many throttle owners, I always pedal — and with plenty of effort at that. I enjoy it.

So why the throttle? For starters, it saves my knees from the unkind loads associated with acceleration at low cadence. Half a second of throttle starting out, and knees are ready to take over.

Yes, I could go to a low gear, high assist, or both on my torque-sensing bike beforehand, but it's just not the same effect and far less convenient.

Also use it for quick bursts of speed in traffic — a huge safety benefit in my book, and one requiring only a second or two of throttle at a time. Yes, I could go to some middle gear and max assist beforehand. But I don't always have time — and again, not the same effect and far less convenient.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Should I give up ebiking because some self-appointed ebike "purists" thinks it's not proper cycling? Don't forget — certain other self-appointed purists think that ebikes aren't proper cycling.

Where do you draw the line? Who's been elected to draw that line for everybody else? Can we get past the black-and-white thinking on throttles, please?

 

[Doggyman1202]

What's missing here is the broad middle ground of throttle use. Nothing about having one at your disposal compels you to abandon the pedals and "just throttle around".

Like many throttle owners, I always pedal — and with plenty of effort at that. I enjoy it.

So why the throttle? For starters, it saves my knees from the unkind loads associated with acceleration at low cadence. Half a second of throttle starting out, and knees are ready to take over.

Yes, I could go to a low gear, high assist, or both on my torque-sensing bike beforehand, but it's just not the same effect and far less convenient.

Also use it for quick bursts of speed in traffic — a huge safety benefit in my book, and one requiring only a second or two of throttle at a time. Yes, I could go to some middle gear and max assist beforehand. But I don't always have time — and again, not the same effect and far less convenient.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Should I give up ebiking because some self-appointed ebike "purists" thinks it's not proper cycling? Don't forget — certain other self-appointed purists think that ebikes aren't proper cycling.

Where do you draw the line? Who's been elected to draw that line for everybody else? Can we get past the black-and-white thinking on throttles, please?

Actually, I agree with everything you are saying. I rented a cadence sensor bike over the winter, and could not balance quickly enough without a quick throttle push, so I get it. I also don't think there's a meaningful safety difference between pedaling 19 miles and hour or throttling at that speed (inasmuch as there is little effort benefit).

"certain other self-appointed purists think that ebikes aren't proper cycling." That's why I bristle at the suggestion that e-bikes aren't exercise. Following that line of reasoning, neither are exercise bikes with pedal resistance adjusters.

 

[GizmoEV]

Defeating the whole purpose of the mid-drive motor.

Oh, that is what you think! No wonder you don't get it. There are countless situations where a throttle on a mid-drive bike could use a throttle, but you have already made up your mind that they don't exist.

This is what Americans like you believe is legal.

Of course, because it actually is legal! It is really simple, read the definition of class 1 and class 2. Take a class 2 bike and remove all the things which make it different from a class 1 and it becomes a class 1, by definition!

Read the Forums.

Great random selection source.

 

[PedalUma]

Back to your OP @tricycle, you are going to have to build it. Here is one I made with a 95Nm torque sensor mid-drive with a throttle, removable keyed battery and all through frame. The throttle is on the right shift hood. The one wire that you can see in the second photo is actually two-toned. The top is gray to better match the frame and leads to the battery. It blends so well that it is hard to see in the final build, but if you zoom, there it is.

 

[PedalUma]

If we are going to bring class into the discussion, shouldn't we also include factors such as culture and gender?

And what if your bike got no class?

 

[PCeBiker]

And what if your bike got no class?

I'm in a special class of my own,..

 

[Rexlion]

So if the OP wants a mid-drive ebike that's class 2 (has max electric-assistance speed 20mph and has a throttle), what's the problem? Answer: no problem.

But I'm happy to know that our friend in Poland never violates any law, ever. That's commendable!

 

[rich c]

Let's not start another senseless throttle war. Presence of a throttle and how it's used are 2 very different things. Granted, throttles make certain kinds of irresponsible riding easier, but so do ebikes in general.

You may have no personal use for a throttle, but for some of us, it's a valuable tool. Please respect that.

My hub drive bike has a very natural-feeling torque-sensing PAS. The throttle supplements that capability on an as-needed basis.

Jeremy, You aren't a moderator are you? If you aren't, then don't tell us about what to say or do on the forum. It's not senseless just because you say so, and I resent you saying that in your response to me. I've been around here 5 years longer than you have. My comment was about why have a natural bicycle feel in a torque sensor, and the accessory to ride it like a scooter. It doesn't make sense to require two styles of ride settings.