pushkar
Well-Known Member
Thread link please.Post in another thread customized
Full suspension with Belt drive - why ?
- Thread starter pushkar
- Start date
FlatSix911
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Silicon Valley
And backpacks can be hot and uncomfortable in the heat of summer... especially when off-road.
FlatSix911
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Silicon Valley
A very nice ride with a triple crown fork and rear belt tensioner... but I still trying to figure out what the hell is hanging off the back of the saddle?Post in another thread customized
I hope that is not a wired light?!
It theory increasing unsprung weight will decrease the time rear wheel touches the ground on high frequency bumps. However when you are carrying panniers even when the rack is unsprung it should still be far better than a hardtail with the same weight on the rack. When riding on the trails this weight will have an effect but one does not do trail riding while carrying a lot of stuff on the rack anyways.
onlineaddy
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- San Diego, CA, USA
The Kinect is hardly a mediocre suspension seatpost; it’s actually one of the best, if not best, out there on the market. Plus, I hardly think FS is necessary for a commuter bike. It may be a nice to have but not a must.
scrambler
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Bay Area, CA
I believe it was mine below
Has anyone heard of, seen or bought the Steinerdesign Ultra E Fully bike?
I came across a bike called Steiner Ultra E bike online on two different sites below https://www.orangebc.com/de/produkte/fat-e-bikes/steinerdesign-ultra-ebike-fully-27-5-plus-rohloff-gates-karbon-riemen-speed-pedelec-zulassung.html https://www.steinerdesign.net/produkte/bikes Apparently both...
electricbikereview.com
scrambler
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Bay Area, CA
It is not a render, there are a few German reviews of people who rode the bike.
The battery is actually pretty genius, there is one in each frame Tube, and they are removable from the front by opening in the frame head tube. I suspect you may have to remove the fork for that, not sure.
But that allows them to have 1180Wh of battery that are almost invisible and be able to add another 500Wh as an external battery attached above the downtube.
Very Clever design...
ebike-news.de
gramho.com
The battery is actually pretty genius, there is one in each frame Tube, and they are removable from the front by opening in the frame head tube. I suspect you may have to remove the fork for that, not sure.
But that allows them to have 1180Wh of battery that are almost invisible and be able to add another 500Wh as an external battery attached above the downtube.
Very Clever design...
Unterwegs mit dem Ultra E-Fully von Steinerdesign: Test und Fahrbericht
Ein e-Bike der Superlative: XXL-Rahmen, Doppelbrückengabel und Schwinge, 120 Nm Drehmoment Antrieb, mehr als 1000 Wh Akku-Kapazität. Das Ultra e-Fully hat's.
ebike-news.de
@fp_oberflaechentechnik Instagram post (photo) Ein wunderschönes Blau RAL 5005 auf einem Ultra von Steinerdesign. #powdercoating #ebike #steinerdesign #pulverbeschichtung #huchenfeld #pforzheim #enzkreis #summer #ral5005 #fpoberflächentechnik #picoft
Instagram post added by fp_oberflaechentechnik Ein wunderschönes Blau RAL 5005 auf einem Ultra von Steinerdesign. #powdercoating #ebike #steinerdesign #pulverbeschichtung #huchenfeld #pforzheim #enzkreis #summer #ral5005 #fpoberflächentechnik #picoftheday #instapic #madeingermany #ultra #bafang...
I disagree, kinekt is nothing special, with the right springs there are seatpost suspensions ,a quarter of that price, that work just as well.
A seatpost suspension is nowhere close to the functionality of a true FS bike. It brings nothing in terms of handling.
On a flat road you may not even need a suspension but when you pay 5-6K you should get much more than some mediocre comfort seatpost. When going fast on a rough terrain the handling benefit of a FS is very significant.
All i know is i'd prefer touring on these roads with a R&M type rear rack with full suspension, much better for the bike, you and your gear you are carrying.
Yeah you are right, at higher speeds on that surface a suspended rack will be better.
I'd say, any speed.
Fast n' Furious
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- San Diego
This is old, but I have to comment on exactly what Gates say's "DO NOT DO THIS".
They figured it out, so what I am hearing is that the Kinetic suspension seat post looks after the comfort, but it doesn't cover the safety aspect, if a hard tail wheel leaves the road and your are trying to use your rear brake in that second you don't have it, so you could be just front braking, not as safe.
If Watt Wagons can develop a titanium framed full suspension bike with Gates/Rohloff/ upgraded Bafang Ultra and fenders with rack they will have the achieved what no other company has done, this would be the true super Ebike....and one that ticks every box for 90% of riders out there with the exception of price, but then again it would be competing with R & M and they are over 10K anyways.
My current bike doesn't have a rear suspension, I have decided my next one will, more for safety than comfort, my trails are mostly hard packed but they do have bumps and rocks and sometimes when cars pass I go slightly off the road, and it gets super bumpy on the shoulder off the concrete. My current bike can handle it, but rear suspension will make it safer.
The C4 fibers are preloaded in a very precise direction, cast in a circle, not linear. Think of coils of fibers.
That tensioner is bending them 180 degrees the opposite direction.
'Nuff said,
Fn'F
scrambler
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Bay Area, CA
You have OLD information.
Gates use to not allow tensioner on the Belt, but since then many manufacturer have implemented such tensioner and Gates has actually validated and approved it.
They even have a tensioner recommendation manual somewhere online, and the above configuration is the one THEY recommend, mostly because it increases the wrap around the Sprocket which improves spreading the load.
Gates use to not allow tensioner on the Belt, but since then many manufacturer have implemented such tensioner and Gates has actually validated and approved it.
They even have a tensioner recommendation manual somewhere online, and the above configuration is the one THEY recommend, mostly because it increases the wrap around the Sprocket which improves spreading the load.
Fast n' Furious
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- San Diego
I have the Gates Manual in pdf somewhere - ahhh. Here it is: https://www.gatescarbondrive.com/~/media/files/gcd/gates-tech-manual-en.pdf
-
"SUSPENSION FRAME CONSIDERATIONS In the earliest possible stages of designing a Carbon Drive compatible rear suspension frame, there are critical engineering factors which must be taken into consideration. In general, full suspension frame designs result in some form of chain growth. Chain growth being defined as a change in the resting distance between the axis of the bottom bracket axle and the axis of the rear hub axle. Because the belt does not have the ability to stretch and the tension in the belt must remain constant, even the smallest amount of chain growth during suspension travel would be detrimental to the system integrity. Devices which compensate for drivetrain slack - such as spring loaded idlers or chain guides - are not allowed unless specifically reviewed and approved by Gates. If a full suspension frame design which utilizes the Carbon Drive system is desired, please contact the Carbon Drive Team ([email protected]) for engineering and development assistance".
-
TENSIONER & IDLER INTEGRATION Gates Carbon Drive has been working with bicycle manufacturers to properly design and implement idlers into some specific applications. For each application, thorough testing of the drive is completed, and certain parameters need to be met prior to releasing the bike to the market. Our belt handling instructions must still be followed, as back bending belts by hand could cause damage. Idlers that follow our design requirements do not cause belt failures. All idler designs require approval by Gates Carbon Drive engineering team.
they even have a photo of a proper type tensioner with an apparent 33 degree bend.
They did have a cartoon of one for a type of drive choice in an older catalog.
-
My experience designing and using C4 fibers, they shatter like glass if bent 180 degrees and if contained in a medium (anything that creates traction) shatter at less than 90 degrees - if flexed.
I visualize a tensioner mashing the entire belts length, 180 degrees, back-and-forth, over and over, Quadrillions of fractures in a thousand miles, turning the carbon to dust.
To be honest, Kevlar would be far better and hardly any real-world weight penalty.
I had no idea they had an approved list.
Thanks for pointing that out. Please forward that link.
Fn'F
pushkar
Well-Known Member
I confirmed with Gates a couple of years ago. There are actually 2 approvals needed tbh
1. For Rohloff, there is a rear triangle stiffness test that needs to be done on the frame (like sideways inflection test)
2. For Gates, the roller material and alignment needs to be certified so it doesnt take significant material off
IIRC these belt setups (RM and Nicolai) are both rated by Gates for around 2000-2500 miles for the belt (a little lower than 3000-3500 miles for traditional hardtail setup) to account for the wear and tear on the top side.
1. For Rohloff, there is a rear triangle stiffness test that needs to be done on the frame (like sideways inflection test)
2. For Gates, the roller material and alignment needs to be certified so it doesnt take significant material off
IIRC these belt setups (RM and Nicolai) are both rated by Gates for around 2000-2500 miles for the belt (a little lower than 3000-3500 miles for traditional hardtail setup) to account for the wear and tear on the top side.
Ebiker33
Well-Known Member
There was article about an advanced rider that had to change his belt and sprockets every 10K KM, that is a huge amount of Ebike riding.
Fast n' Furious
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- San Diego
I really respect your knowledge.
A couple questions.
1) Do you have a list of any approved tensioners/ idlers?
2) Do your bikes incorporate a 'frame splitter' design, for me to change the belt?
Thanks,
Fn'F
scrambler
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Bay Area, CA
1) There are no off the shelves tensioner you can buy that I could ever find, each manufacturer makes their own for their own bike.
If you figure out your bike could use one from a brand bike, you may be able to buy it as a spare part.
BUT tensioners are intricately linked to the bike geometry and the sprockets used, as how much slack they need to take while maintaining belt tension is a function of the Chain stay variation, and what belt length can be fitted on a given set of front and rear sprocket.
Gates only manufactures certain belt sizes (tooth #), so depending on your chain stay and the sprocket used, you may have to install a belt that already has some slack even at the longest chain path. A given tensioner can only take so much slack, and if that is not enough for your specific bike Geometry / Belt length, it wont do the job.
2) The Hydra does have the ability to open the rear triangle as you can see on the double bolts at the back.
If you figure out your bike could use one from a brand bike, you may be able to buy it as a spare part.
BUT tensioners are intricately linked to the bike geometry and the sprockets used, as how much slack they need to take while maintaining belt tension is a function of the Chain stay variation, and what belt length can be fitted on a given set of front and rear sprocket.
Gates only manufactures certain belt sizes (tooth #), so depending on your chain stay and the sprocket used, you may have to install a belt that already has some slack even at the longest chain path. A given tensioner can only take so much slack, and if that is not enough for your specific bike Geometry / Belt length, it wont do the job.
2) The Hydra does have the ability to open the rear triangle as you can see on the double bolts at the back.
Last edited:
Similar threads
