AleksR
Active Member
Nobody cares what you think. It's what majority think. And you are in minority.
Front page LA Times today regarding Ebikes
- Thread starter Taylor57
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tomjasz
Well-Known Member
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- Minnesnowta
mschwett
Well-Known Member
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- USA
well, and let’s not forget that one of the purposes of representative democracy (and the curious system of checks and balances our country has) is to protect the minority from the persecution of the majority.
but sadly in recent years the minority has managed in some ways to persecute the majority
pmcdonald
Well-Known Member
Say what you will about our 1 class system - and I've ranted and advocated plenty about the speed limits, trust me - it keeps it simple. There's no confusion or debate about MUP or trail access. Ebike sales are through the roof here in Australia, so people are amazingly surviving with our restrictions. (Yes, it beggars belief.) I can ride my commuter or emtb anywhere unmotorised users can, no hostility or questions asked.
And if the blanket speed limit proves too slow, it's up to the individual whether they derestrict. I'm not condoning it, but if those users don't act like fools around others they'll likely never have a run in with law enforcement.
And if the blanket speed limit proves too slow, it's up to the individual whether they derestrict. I'm not condoning it, but if those users don't act like fools around others they'll likely never have a run in with law enforcement.
AleksR
Active Member
Actually, majority is correct vast majority of the time. That is why we have democracy.
AleksR
Active Member
Unlike you, I don't like to ramble about nonsense. This is a clear cut thing. Throttling among pedestrians is perceived as dangerous. Do a poll and I bet it will show that sentiment.
kevinmccune
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- Region
- USA
Doubtful, the big problem is mingling bikes and cars, most of the Drivers in the first major"cityette" around here(50 miles away) either cannot or will not see a signal light, the signal light when you are trying to merge( a Tesla would be handy in this case) seems to trigger a 'challenge" event, so you can imagine what would happen to a bike rider in a roundabout. This lack of courtesy even extends to red stoplights, do not get me started on schoolbus drivers( like the USPS some seem to consider themselves demi gods)
Now Folks do not read more into this than it is, it just a simple observation, now this"cityette's" sister to the east at least has incorparated some bike lanes on the secondary roads and streets( while a lot of driver still suffer from the "brick effect".
I like to dig holes so maybe this "Zorro" will go dig one after this vent( not likely-pancreas calls)
kevinmccune
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- USA
( simple majority is splitting hairs, of course Gold trumps all)
kevinmccune
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- USA
Welcome to the fold, "Brown Sheep" never complain, they go quietly to their frustration and station. Used to work with Guys like that.
kevinmccune
Well-Known Member
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- USA
Beware the "Ides of spandex".I am amused by people dressing up for race day in the EU on bikes that top out at 15 mph! That would suck if it weren't so silly. The amusement value does make it worth it.
kneebenderbiker
Active Member
- Region
- USA
@Mr. Coffee said; If we want e-bikes to be accepted in civilized society a damned good start would be to behave in a civilized fashion. Good luck with that! We can hope.
I see your point -a lot of the posts on this forum -lack- civilized fashion. Which might help to explain; Many folks posting here clearly believe that they can just ignore any rules and ride wherever they damned well please- I'll add to that - how ever they please ie; speeding, unsafely, etc. They probably are the same in their car/truck/suv.
@JedidiahStolzfus points out; there's still conflict between horses and cars. I see this also when I travel certain areas not far from me. Unfortunately, besides the SUVs and big trucks not slowing to pass or giving much distance when passing the horse drawn wagon or buggy, I often see the "horses" ignoring stop signs, no lights at night, nor mirrors. Luckily I've never seen an accident. When I ride a horse to the trails (I know, different) I stay in the ditch until I have to cross the road- traffic rarely slows and I always wonder why so many honk?
I do not doubt more regulations concerning ebike will be implemented - whether everyone follows them or not I do have doubt.
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Jeremy McCreary
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Carlsbad, CA
The ebike explosion comes at a time when many folks think that rules just don't apply to them. For some, it's ideological. Others just can't be bothered.
Either way, this timing isn't going to work out well for ebike access.
Here's what we're up against in a different context: For 3 months in 2022, we rented a condo in a middle-income complex in a middle to upper income part of central San Diego County.
The complex had 2 big communal trash bin garages, each with about 20 bins. More than enough for trash and recycling. The trash bins were dark gray, the recycling bins bright blue, and all were clearly marked either "TRASH" or "RECYCLING" in BIG white letters. No way to mistake which was which. Signage all around spelled out what should and shouldn't go into the recycling bins -- in both pictures and simple bilingual text.
Yet all the recycling bins were at least 50% trash all the time -- even when the trash bins were far from full.
And that's why we can't have nice things like ebike access to MUPs. Also why pedestrians on MUPs are such a hazard to cyclists.
Either way, this timing isn't going to work out well for ebike access.
Here's what we're up against in a different context: For 3 months in 2022, we rented a condo in a middle-income complex in a middle to upper income part of central San Diego County.
The complex had 2 big communal trash bin garages, each with about 20 bins. More than enough for trash and recycling. The trash bins were dark gray, the recycling bins bright blue, and all were clearly marked either "TRASH" or "RECYCLING" in BIG white letters. No way to mistake which was which. Signage all around spelled out what should and shouldn't go into the recycling bins -- in both pictures and simple bilingual text.
Yet all the recycling bins were at least 50% trash all the time -- even when the trash bins were far from full.
And that's why we can't have nice things like ebike access to MUPs. Also why pedestrians on MUPs are such a hazard to cyclists.
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tomjasz
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- Minnesnowta
Nah, I won't go there or that far. I'm sorry that my remarks were taken in a way that makes your comment relevant. It's not. This isn't life and death or religion. @Jeremy McCreary
He's a great poster and really polite pleasant fellow as well. Just like many members that are fully or nearly fully able, and tend to see everyone else as like them. Forgetting some are not so able and a little thing to them like a throttle is a HUGE issue for others.
m@Robertson
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
Don't be a fool. You are the lord of your keyboard speaking to a small niche of a niche on a single internet forum. Your comment demonstrates a lack of understanding as to what a statistically significant result is. Whats really true is nobody cares what either of us thinks, because we are just bleating ineffectively - in a small, secluded place - and we both love to hear ourselves talk. But only one of us realizes that.
I think this is emblematic of a cyclist's perspective and misses an important point: Throttles are a part of a transportation solution that is VERY near and dear to the hearts of the government in power in California, and likely to stay there for the forseeable future, if not the rest of our lifetimes (assuming here that we're all old farts). I am fairly dialed into the cargo bike community and that is a world where you will hear people (besides me, for a change) say things like "Why on Earth would someone want torque sensing when hauling a 100 lb load of groceries and a kid?" or "of course I use a throttle" and nobody spits up on their bib when they hear someone say that.
THOSE are the riders who a legislator (not a city councilman at a monthly town meeting) listen to and cater to. For reasons that are much bigger as part of a much bigger agenda. Cyclists on the other hand have all the baggage that comes with analog cycling, which has everything to do with cycling's past bleeding into determining its future.
If anything, California as the first State to introduce the 3-class system... I'll put it first in line to introduce a Class 4... or something similar where we see some sort of utility level bike codified. That aforementioned cargo bike with a load of groceries and a child is ill-served by a 750w motor and *everyone* knows it. If the goal is to wean Californians off of autos to any degree, the 749w legal limit is not long for this world - which probably has a lot to do with why it has long-since been completely ignored - at both the federal and state level - with zero consequences to any rider or manufacturer, despite everyone knowing what the law says.
EDIT: The one shining example in the USA has already been mentioned: The City of Honolulu. who effectively banned all USA-legal ebikes, although I doubt that was their intention and they probably had to back off once they realized the consequences of their actions.
tomjasz
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- Minnesnowta
Yeah with enough whitewash, you might actually convince a few dolts. There are horrific examples of decisions and policies that carried a majority and were disastrous. Slavery. Holocaust, use of a nuke against civilians, LGBTQ denial of rights... And more, had majority support. We have a Democracy so the minority can enjoy the same rights. I remember when a majority thought SF should go the way of Sodom and Gomorrah.
m@Robertson
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
No it isn't. The concept of the tyranny of the majority is I expect a new one to some. Fortunately this was not true of the statesmen who founded the USA.
Defining Democracy: Tyranny of the Majority - Renew Democracy Initiative
Defining Democracy: Tyranny of the Majority “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what they are going to have for lunch.” —Benjamin Franklin Aristocracy, Oligarchy, Democracy, Tyranny. From best to worst, this is the order in which regimes degrade, as described by Socrates in Plato’s...
rdi.org
tomjasz
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Oh, stop with the facts...No it isn't. The concept of the tyranny of the majority is I expect a new one to some. Fortunately this was not true of the statesmen who founded the USA, and they put in many checks and balances expressly to temper majority tyranny.
Defining Democracy: Tyranny of the Majority - Renew Democracy Initiative
Defining Democracy: Tyranny of the Majority “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what they are going to have for lunch.” —Benjamin Franklin Aristocracy, Oligarchy, Democracy, Tyranny. From best to worst, this is the order in which regimes degrade, as described by Socrates in Plato’s...
Taylor57
Well-Known Member
Our local laws are pretty relaxed with ebikes for registration purposes we adhere to Federal Standards no ebike can be legally registered if motor output is more than 750w. I only learned of this when I tried to register my Bafang powered emtb, I wrote down on my application 1500w and my application was denied so I filled out another application and listed 500w and the clerk approved it and successfully registered my bike.
[/QUOTE]
So it's registered legally or illegally?
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
So it's registered legally or illegally?
[/QUOTE]
Falsified documentation makes it not legally registered. And then announce it on a worldwide forum.
Taylor57
Well-Known Member
Falsified documentation makes it not legally registered. And then announce it on a worldwide forum.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think we can register our ebikes here in CA-legally or illegally. I may be wrong...
