Front page LA Times today regarding Ebikes

[tomjasz]

A very thoughtful guy (owner?) at my LBS in Solana Beach, CA thinks that throttles will eventually be banned in California, as they already are in the EU. This LBS sells a wide range of mid-drive and rear hub drive bikes, and many if not most of the latter have throttles -- including quite a few in the 28 mph, 750W category. (These last don't fit into any California class as currently defined, but that's another post.)

Neither of us is anti-throttle. That's just where he thinks things are headed. I use mine both sparingly and responsibly and would hate to part with it (mainly for traffic safety and knee preservation reasons). But I'm beginning to think he's right.

Not saying that throttles are inherently bad, or that they should be banned. Simply that such a ban (a) would be relatively easy to enforce, and (b) would in one fell swoop take many irresponsible riders off our roadways, bikeways, MUPs, dedicated walkways, and countless other places where no bike should be ridden.

Like it or not, irresponsibly ridden ebikes are a real and growing threat to public safety in coastal San Diego County -- if only because (1) their numbers are exploding, and (2) they can easily go much faster than the typical rider could/would ever pedal, with or without a throttle. In fact, many if not most of the offending ebikes I see are ridden without pedaling. And like it or not, that's what the public sees, too.

I get the distinct feeling that most of these irresponsible riders wouldn't bike at all if they had to pedal. For officials charged with public safety, that has to be a tempting target. If the typical throttle weren't full-power only, might be a different story, but I kinda doubt it.

Sigh, this is why we can't have nice things.

You live in the heart of the nutters and companies promoting fast eBikes. I imagine some nanny states will also have your problem. But out here in the small urban and open spaces we lack californicaters and their road aggression. Thankfully your neighbors road manners aren’t as common in much of the country. I traveled from Lost Wages up and down the CA and OR coast with hundreds of hours in SD an Orange County. Life here couldn’t be more removed.

I’m sorry but while well written and thought out it still smells like you’re an apologist for taking away throttles. After all you likely don’t “need” one. Because you don’t you’ll support an unenlightened position and take something away from me that I need. That’s how I read it. I do believe you’re not that crass and are far more kind and thoughtful than my comments. But seriously, f*ck the EU and their ridiculous standards.

 

[tomjasz]

Maybe you want to regulate the hand? What do you people drink in California, your state is broke and regulated to death.

Yeah those losers.
What percentage of the American economy is California?

“California has the largest GDP among US states of $2.8 billion accounting for 15 percent of the total country's GDP.”

But only 12% of USA population.

I will give you they’re lousy drivers.

 

[old dude]

Yeah those losers.
What percentage of the American economy is California?

“California has the largest GDP among US states of $2.8 billion accounting for 15 percent of the total country's GDP.”

But only 12% of USA population.

I will give you they’re lousy drivers.

I think a lot of Californias GDP is in needles, pipes and tents. I know that's not funny but it's true.

 

[tomjasz]

I think a lot of Californias GDP is in needles, pipes and tents. I know that's not funny but it's true.

Nah man. That’s just mean. Your neighbors have pipes too. With that I’m out. Nice weather, great food, interesting industry, incredible gardens, fun people, just awful roads and drivers.

 

[mschwett]

I think a lot of Californias GDP is in needles, pipes and tents. I know that's not funny but it's true.

whatever dude. it’s actually more like google, apple, intel, facebook, cisco, netflix, zoom, chevron, wells fargo, disney. you know, stuff you probably never use except for anything to with technology or entertainment. i assume you typed that clever message with sticks and stones.

trust me. california could do without you a whole lot easier than you could do without it.

 

[mschwett]

You live in the heart of the nutters and companies promoting fast eBikes. I imagine some nanny states will also have your problem. But out here in the small urban and open spaces we lack californicaters and their road aggression. Thankfully your neighbors road manners aren’t as common in much of the country. I traveled from Lost Wages up and down the CA and OR coast with hundreds of hours in SD an Orange County. Life here couldn’t be more removed.

I’m sorry but while well written and thought out it still smells like you’re an apologist for taking away throttles. After all you likely don’t “need” one. Because you don’t you’ll support an unenlightened position and take something away from me that I need. That’s how I read it. I do believe you’re not that crass and are far more kind and thoughtful than my comments. But seriously, f*ck the EU and their ridiculous standards.

i think you make a key point: a lot of this has to do with local conditions, and should be - needs to be - regulated locally.

the reality is that the vast majority of bikes and eBikes are ridden in places with lots of people and/or enough density to make distances rideable, rather than drivable. so any kind of broader standards need to consider that more than the relatively small number of users elsewhere. that’s the beauty of a national class system, define the classes nationally, regulate which are allowed where locally. if some jurisdiction wants to allow class Z bikes on MUPs, they can. and if a densely populated place where lots and lots of people actually ride bikes, like where i live, wants to ban high power throttle bikes from bike lanes, they can.

as for f the EU.. nah. f the USA and our nearly complete reliance on the automobile. the EU has WAY more walking, cycling, and transit than the USA or Canada. they’re doing some things right.

 

[Nomad]

Maybe you want to regulate the hand? What do you people drink in California, your state is broke and regulated to death.

I'm confused did this reply get posted to the wrong comment?

 

[Nomad]

Does getting hit by a bike doing 20mh hurt less when it's being peddled vs a throttle?

well that depends are they still pushing the throttle?

 

[tomjasz]

that’s the beauty of a national class system

These aren't assault rifles. Your points are as always well taken and spot-on. But calling the class system something of beauty just rankles the remaining anarchist in me. Maybe it was all the Henry David, but silly ill thought regulations on the most innocuous pastime. Nope.

 

[mschwett]

These aren't assault rifles. Your points are as always well taken and spot-on. But calling the class system something of beauty just rankles the remaining anarchist in me. Maybe it was all the Henry David, but silly ill thought regulations on the most innocuous pastime. Nope.

well, i did say “A” class system, not the one we currently have! i’d make it much broader, 0-4 with 4 being almost anything short of an electric motorcycle, presumably not permitted in most urban areas except on road, but some (relatively uncrowded) places could and hopefully would allow them in bike lanes, paths, trails, etc.

i’d also make bikes switchable. no reason a class “4” bike couldn’t be ridden on a 0-2 path in a lower power, throttle off mode. of course that’s all pie in the sky.

 

[tomjasz]

as for f the EU.. nah. f the USA and our nearly complete reliance on the automobile. the EU has WAY more walking, cycling, and transit than the USA or Canada. they’re doing some things right.

And I respect all the EU and their choices. And yes, we could do well reconsidering our snobbish refusal to adopt some sensible EU innovations. But their eBike standard is ridiculous.

 

[PedalUma]

I had an all bike morning. One guy I spoke with for an hour is doing a survey of bike lanes and paths to advise the city. He got a $50,000 grant. He liked my suggestion for a link with protected lanes between a large high school and a junior college that passes several grade schools and shopping, but has wide 25 mph streets. I will lead a group ride of about 50 along it next Friday. Here is a car diet being installed. The street was wide and some were driving too fast past a grade school. This removes 1/2 of the road's width. The bike I finished last night will give power at high speeds, but you must pedal really fast to get there and stay there. It is meant as a sedate comfort town bike.

 

[Jeremy McCreary]

That’s how I read it.

You read it wrong.

 

[PedalUma]

I am amused by people dressing up for race day in the EU on bikes that top out at 15 mph! That would suck if it weren't so silly. The amusement value does make it worth it.

 

[kevinmccune]

Honestly, in North America, it is going to take decades. That just means we should start immediately.

It will take a lot of infrastructure. But we need to realize that even the relatively modest amounts of infrastructure proposed and built have prompted fairly deranged backlash (ref: "The War on Cars"). I find it hilarious and ironic that there has been a lot of backlash at projects that have increased the throughput and safety for cars as well. Roundabouts are superior in every way to traditional controlled intersections with traffic lights: they are safer, everyone gets through the intersection faster, and they cost less -- sometimes much less. Yet if you talk to people in the states and Canada most everyone vehemently hates them.

Safe and secure bicycle parking needs to be widely available.

Most of all, it will take a lot of squeaky wheels getting active in politics and being so obnoxiously persistent that the easiest way forward for elected officials is to just give us what we need and want.

I am an anomaly,I like roundabouts, they are catching on in these parts finally.

 

[tomjasz]

I'm confused did this reply get posted to the wrong comment?

No, in case you left coaster’s don’t realize it a lot of conservative US citizens have a very negative view of the left coast. We’re currently a culture that worships memes and lies as our truths. California is the devil for these poor souls.

 

[tomjasz]

You read it wrong.

No. You’re clearly Luke warm and an apologist. And far more polite than I. Henry David Thoreau and civil disobedience is at the core of my American spirit. Bad laws should be broken. Best part of being old and having earned an asshole merit badge. Opinions and minor acts of resistance won’t affect my lifestyle or income.

 

[PedalUma]

conservative US citizens

A large geographic area with a lot more Senators than California does hate us. They are busy trying to put the dysfunctional Humpy Dumpty of America back to where it was 50-years-ago, maybe even to Jim Crow. We are trying to move it forward. Isn't it funny that Richard Nixon started OSHA, the EPA, and NOAA? He was considered a conservative's conservative. So, the right has shifted too. Now they are threating to not pay the bills they already incurred by giving massive tax cuts to the super rich.

 

[Nomad]

No, in case you left coaster’s don’t realize it a lot of conservative US citizens have a very negative view of the left coast. We’re currently a culture that worships memes and lies as our truths. California is the devil for these poor souls.

I live nowhere near California.

 

[JedidiahStolzfus]

No, in case you left coaster’s don’t realize it a lot of conservative US citizens have a very negative view of the left coast. We’re currently a culture that worships memes and lies as our truths. California is the devil for these poor souls.

I was served boiled spinach as a snack in Kindergarten there. Yes, they're the devil.