From Class 2 to Class 1. How "hard" is it to switch?

[PCeBiker]

having the motor start up more-or-less instantly on crank rotation (whatever the default is)

I'm guessing that it's the combination of crank rotation and pedal pressure that is causing it.
It takes a lot of pedal pressure to climb in to low gear at stall speed.

 

[PCeBiker]

I just read this post.
It's all there,..

I'll say the delay/slack is noticably less in my gen4 PL Speed than on the gen2. You can trigger assist while stopped at a red light with pressure on the pedal, especially if you pedaled right up to a sudden stop without coasting. Not really an issue as the only time I would not have at least 1 hand on a brake at a red light is if I'm leaning over tying my shoe in which case both feet are on the ground.

In terms of sudden assist just before stopping, I guess it's more likely to trigger if I haven't down shifted enough and then try to make a last second gear change. Muscle memory is pretty well set at this point to downshift while pedaling without enough pressure to trigger assist as I effectively coast to a stop.

I doubt if that will continue to be a problem for your wife once her muscle memory recalibrates for the new bike.

 

[PCeBiker]

I'll say the delay/slack is noticably less in my gen4 PL Speed than on the gen2. You can trigger assist while stopped at a red light. Not really an issue as the only time I would not have at least 1 hand on a brake at a red light

Does that mean your gen4/gen2 have brake switches?
Or are you just able to hold it back if it starts to go?

 

[PCeBiker]

1200 pounds for this, Ive see one in the wild, the frame looks perfectly fine.
All the components are good enough.

It's on sale now,..

It would actually be legal with a speed resriction 250w sticker and throttle removed.

My motor came with 350 watt stickers, so I'm good to go in Canada

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Probably unrelated to your case, @speedub.nate but I can remember a British user here who complained her Gazelle e-bike was "surging" under her. Turned out, she only did learning rides in her yard, and all were in TURBO Her question was "how to setup my Gazelle so the TURBO mode behaved like ECO". I could not help her. Nobody could.

 

[kevinmccune]

I'm not sure how that could be possible as they are independent, unconnected systems.

the electric power to the motor is usually cutoff if equipped with brake safety switches.

 

[kevinmccune]

Really? Never once had ANY of those problems in over 3,000 mi on my heavy 500W torque-sensing commuter with progressive on-demand thumb throttle. Not even close.

Especially that nonsense about not getting used to pedaling. Nothing about having a properly implemented throttle at your disposal forces you to ride without pedaling.

In fact, I always pedal that commuter with effort by choice — and not just ghost-pedal. Use the throttle only a few seconds at a time ON TOP of pedaling as the need arises. Doubt if even 1% of my miles on that bike have been under throttle, pedaling all the while. But I'm sure glad that bike has one.

There are many valuable uses for a throttle that have absolutely nothing to do with getting out of pedaling — especially on a heavy torque-sensing ebike. That includes starting out and instant bursts of speed in traffic. I consider the latter an important safety feature on my commuter. Also an invaluable knee-saver in my case.

In contrast, I have no real need for a throttle on my much more responsive lightweight fitness mid-drive. But still miss it in traffic at times.

a lot of the ebike commercials show smiling folks zipping everywhere without turning the crank at all.

 

[stompandgo]

Does that mean your gen4/gen2 have brake switches?
Or are you just able to hold it back if it starts to go?

My Cannondale has the same DU (gen4 System 2 Bosch Performance Line Speed) and the bike has no brake cutouts. The brake levers (Magura) have switches for brake lights.

 

[kevinmccune]

Ah, true, except when it's not. The whole reason this thread forked is I mentioned my wife has suddenly had a few motor "excursions" while rolling to a stop on her new-to-her bike. What I wrote earlier is that it's almost for sure some habit she needs to unlearn, but a kill switch on the brake lever would have definitely prevented this.


I still see this as an advertised feature with current generation Shimano and Bosch motors, and specifically for shift gear hubs.

that reminds me of the so called" unexpected accelerations from certain makes of auto, a lot of times I believe they are not aware of having their foot on throttle.
One of the woman had time to call up her family on a cell phone and say goodbye for several minutes,don't know if she tried to cut it off or even check for something on the throttle,if this event occurs immediatly go to full stop,hit neutral don't get the brakes hot and put it in a ditch ,most of the time if the bike keeps going its usually because I haven't hit the brake lever,when I build one I always try to have at least one motor cutoff switch operable.just saying used to get many unexpected wheelies when I was fooling around with the throttle.

 

[PedalUma]

Isn't that where everyone puts theirs?!?

On mini-bikes with useless pedals, (because the saddle height cannot be adjusted and the legs cannot be extended for pedaling) kids will put the front brake on the right and the rear on the left and disconnect the brake cutouts. While riding a wheelie they can then balance between the throttle on the right for up and the rear brake on the left for down. If their electric mini-bike/moped/motorcycle has hydraulic brakes it can be a huge problem. They will swap the levers, not the hoses. With upside down levers the reservoirs are also upside down. It will work at first. Then suddenly it will form an air pocket and not work at all. What if that happens while riding a wheelie?

 

[PCeBiker]

,.. The brake levers (Magura) have switches for brake lights.

The brake switches on my e-bike are for a brake light as well as motor cut switches.

,.. While riding a wheelie they can then balance between the throttle on the right for up and the rear brake on the left for down.

It works when you're airborne too.
If you go off a jump and you start to roll into a nose-dive, you hit the gas to bring the nose up.
Riding the brakes brings the nose down. (until the brake stops the wheel from rotating)

Then suddenly it will form an air pocket and not work at all.

Hydraulic brakes are fine to be upside-down if you don't touch the brake levers.

I keep flipping my ebike upside-down and always end up hitting the levers and getting spongy brakes.
I just stand the e-bike up against the wall and hit the rear brake lever a bunch of times to get the bubbles going uphill from the rear caliper.

The bubbles in the brake line rise up into the reservoir when the brake lever is pressed and released during normal operation, and the reservoir is right side up.

When the reservoir is upside-down, the bubbles rise up to the brake cylinder inlet port, but don't get into your brake lines if you don't squeeze the brake lever.

 

[PCeBiker]

.just saying used to get many unexpected wheelies when I was fooling around with the throttle.

My e-bike would have taken off without me about half a dozen times if I didn't have brake switches.

At one point I had two throttles, one with a throttle lock, as well as cruise control built into my display.

I was screwing up all the time.
I finally trained myself to expect it to launch when I release the brake lever.

 

[RunForTheHills]

The brake switches on my e-bike are for a brake light as well as motor cut switches.

They also are required on bikes that use regenerative braking. The cutoff switch is used to trigger the regen. Obviously that doesn't apply to mid-drive motors and most geared hub motors though.