Experience Thread: A noobie getting into a specialized vado 5.0 IGH

[dynamic]

I am considering a vado sl (long story, don’t want to get into it).

I have seen mixed information about radar support on the built in tcu on the latest 5.0 models. A post on here indicates the new tcu offers to pair with radars. Does it make noise and show the indicator?

I am also trying to find out if it can charge the extender battery and internal battery at the same time from one plug. I would have the battery live on the bike permanently. it looks like a y cable exists which would mean plugging two plugs in, but from one charger?

I think the answer to both is yes. But I want to make sure before I take the plunge.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Yes you can charge the RE and the internal battery at the same time from a single charger using the SL Y-Cable (Road 220 mm). I am actually doing it right now. Both batteries are being charged on the principle similar to the "Discharge both batteries at the same time", that is, the actual charge of both batteries (in Wh) increases at the same rate. The downside is the RE is the limiting component. The maximum charge time with the Y-Cable will be 3 h 20 min while the total charge of the main battery alone is 2 h 30 min.

Note: The RE comes with the proper bottle-cage and with the rubber band but without the cable.

P.S. You cannot charge two RE with the Y-Cable.

The Garmin Varia radar pairs to both the Mastermind TCU and to a Wahoo.

Derrek make sure Vado SL will be adequate for your hills. Today, I rode for 127 km of which 106 km was gravel or dirt. With my bad legs, the 106 km ride took 5 h 35 min and I needed as many as 3 RE to complete the ride in a realistic time. The main battery and RE were only good for 67 km because of 80% of assistance (35% for your former Vado).

 

[dynamic]

Derrek make sure Vado SL will be adequate for your hills.

Yeah, it’s a concern. I have done most of the shorter 10-15 mile loops at max 50% on my vado. So, in theory, I should be able to do those at 100% on the SL. But, yes, this will likely cut off access to some areas either due to effort or battery life.

It’s hard to compare. The vado on 100% for my 1.7 mile ride home from town takes 10% battery for around 72 watt hours. I can do this at 50% but typically chose not to because this is at the end of the ride.

Not sure I could do the 2000+ elevation loops. I could barely handle the 28 mile loop on my vado. ( that was the ride before it was turned in for speed sensor “fixing”)

Anyway, I don’t have a way to find out without buying it. Unfortunately.

 

[Rollegourmet]

So why are you not getting the 600? Is it because they gave you a credit from the store for your Vado 5 IGH so you have to spend the money there?
So then why you don t get the regular Vado 5? Is it because they are out of stock and it will take too much time to get it?

 

[dynamic]

So why are you not getting the 600?

Still concerned about hills. I haven’t ridden a normal bike that makes me feel good about dealing with hills yet. The 600/600x has some advantages over everything I have ridden. But I don’t know if it would make a difference. I do think either would be an excellent normal bike to own along with other things. So it’s still on the list, but I am buying one bike before spring. And I am still worried this one isn’t a good choice for my hills and fitness levels. But it’s the “goal” bike (or a similar custom build)

So then why you don t get the regular Vado 5?

The listed availability for vado 5 in my size is late 2023. The rep thinks that is probably wrong. But he can’t give me better data.

credit from the store

Not an issue. Refund is going to original payment method. I can buy anything I can justify that is available. Vado sl is simply one of the few that is available. And I genuinely think I would love it if I managed chain maintenance and didn’t have winter riding nightmare issues (thinking chains+salt)

 

[dynamic]

@AHicks Did you ever write thoughts on the evelo atlas? I am a bit hesitant to go for *another* enviolo based bike, but, they honestly look like it could be a better fit for me now that I have a better idea of what I want.

 

[dynamic]

Interesting theory: The LBS tightened the belt assuming slipping had something to do with that. I have had several people who work exclusively on enviolo/belt bikes tell me that too tight can create problems for the hub which may come across as slipping. Essentially it puts too much force on the rear sprocket.

This may be a case of the LBS and Specialized simply not knowing their first year product well enough to solve "simple" problems. Ah well.

 

[AHicks]

@AHicks Did you ever write thoughts on the evelo atlas? I am a bit hesitant to go for *another* enviolo based bike, but, they honestly look like it could be a better fit for me now that I have a better idea of what I want.

I have not. I've just been dropping little tidbits here and there whenever they come to mind/seem relevant.

I have been riding it quite a bit. It's my "go to" bike any more. Point being, if you have any questions holler.

 

[AHicks]

Interesting theory: The LBS tightened the belt assuming slipping had something to do with that. I have had several people who work exclusively on enviolo/belt bikes tell me that too tight can create problems for the hub which may come across as slipping. Essentially it puts too much force on the rear sprocket.

This may be a case of the LBS and Specialized simply not knowing their first year product well enough to solve "simple" problems. Ah well.

This really doesn't fly well from a logic standpoint. If the belt was tightened and it stopped slipping you should be good to go.

If the belt were "over" tightened, typically one would expect high bearing wear - not slipping...

 

[dynamic]

I have not. I've just been dropping little tidbits here and there whenever they come to mind/seem relevant.

I have been riding it quite a bit. It's my "go to" bike any more. Point being, if you have any questions holler.

I think I am going to order one shortly.

Do you do a lot of elevation in your rides?

Any actual issues?

How are the brakes? The difference between 2 piston and 4 piston on bikes I have tried was pretty noticeable.

 

[dynamic]

This really doesn't fly well from a logic standpoint. If the belt was tightened and it stopped slipping you should be good to go.

That’s just it. The belt was tightened and it got worse if any change. That is why fingers were pointed at the hub.

I agree, it’s not logical from a purely physical connection point. I am trying to understand the how/why (I have some questions out to those involved). But something was dropping resistance on this bike in a situation where parts of a rotation would become much lighter.

 

[AHicks]

Not picky about brakes. If they stop me leaving me with a degree of confidence I'm good. Might be different if I were spending a lot of time off-road or some other application where I was pushing them hard.

Re: a lot of elevation changes, not so much with the Atlas. The area it spends most of it's time in is reasonably level. If you are asking if I would recommend it for heavy loads and big hills, no, I would not. I would want a regular derailleur set up. Where the Enviolo shines is at cruise speeds and in areas that are not real technical. I think of it as more of a "city" bike....

No actual issues.

Have you seen the "sale" price on this bike?

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[dynamic]

If they stop me leaving me with a degree of confidence I'm good.

I rented/tried a few specialized vados and comos, and some of them did that, and some really didn't. But, since some were rented, it could have been new pads vs old pads.

If you are asking if I would recommend it for heavy loads and big hills, no, I would not. I would want a regular derailleur set up

I am only getting a regular derailleur if no other solutions are available (which is why I was contemplating the vado sl because I am running out of options). And I already know belt drive/climbing on the vado is fine. I really can't imagine a bafang with double the peak power and 30nm more torque will do worse than the vado. I do foresee needing the second battery.

Have you seen the "sale" price on this bike?

I have not even seen this brand, let alone the bike. Interesting idea though. Not gonna lie, I am *this* close to spending that money on the 600x. Might be worth dealing with a chain if I can get an e-bike for that price. Also, I don't see a "sale" just looks like the normal pricing.

Why that bike?

 

[dynamic]

Have you seen the "sale" price on this bike?

Now, the blade 2 that they are releasing, that I am very interested in.

 

[mschwett]

…. And I already know belt drive/climbing on the vado is fine. …

well, yes and no. did it have enough power? yes. did it work reliably / tolerate the strain/abuse/combination of shifting and load and who knows what…. no.

belt + rohloff and belt + pinion are combinations that are time tested, beat to s*it by extremely strong, aggressive riders over thousands of miles in the worst possible conditions. i tend to agree with @AHicks that the enviolo seems optimized for smooth cruising at relatively low loads and speeds.

 

[dynamic]

did it work reliably / tolerate the strain/abuse/combination of shifting and load and who knows what…. no.

Fair point. I just wish I knew if it was the hub. That answers my question and means I do or don’t need to go to one of those you mentioned.

 

[dynamic]

well, yes and no. did it have enough power? yes. did it work reliably / tolerate the strain/abuse/combination of shifting and load and who knows what…. no.

belt + rohloff and belt + pinion are combinations that are time tested, beat to s*it by extremely strong, aggressive riders over thousands of miles in the worst possible conditions. i tend to agree with @AHicks that the enviolo seems optimized for smooth cruising at relatively low loads and speeds.

Separate question: how do you feel about hub drive? I haven't tried anything with it yet.

 

[mschwett]

Separate question: how do you feel about hub drive? I haven't tried anything with it yet.

i think it works fine. it doesn't have that natural "you only stronger" feeling that a well tuned torque sensing mid-drive does, so i wouldn't pick it for a "fitness/pleasure" bike. my front hub commuter works perfectly, it's almost a 50/50 all wheel drive balance, with the motor typically putting down 150-200 watts just like me when cruising around town. at 500 watts (battery draw, not output power, so figure 400) there's a slight torque steering effect thanks to it being a front hub, which would be eliminated of course with a rear hub. at that point, ghost pedaling, it's more moped/escooter than bike, imo, but it still works very, very well. zero issues, and it allows the bottom bracket to be "normal" and the rear hub to have an IGH.

total load for that bike is around 185lb for me, 5lb of stuff, 40lb bike, 40lb kiddo. so, 270lb, with san francisco hills.

 

[dynamic]

so i wouldn't pick it for a "fitness/pleasure"

That's all I needed.

50/50 all wheel drive sounds pretty cool.

I did get some clarity on the tightness creating slipping: basically, they think gates carbon drive guidance for tension is way too high for the enviolo hub. And if you follow the 35-50hz app, it will basically destroy the freewheel assembly over time.

 

[dynamic]

Ugh. It’s snowing. Maybe I am done with this for the year.