Experience Thread: A noobie getting into a specialized vado 5.0 IGH

[mschwett]

…
Put another way, a half mile at 8.8% grade requires 262 watts to maintain that 5.0 on the diverge for 6 minutes with nowhere to go for relief. My power curve (according to WKO) puts that kind of effort at one minute and thirty seconds until I fade.

The pinion really should win around this area (for me) unless/until/if my FTP is 275 or so (unlikely). Then the diverge *might* be a better option. What's more likely is I will lose weight and get my power to weight ratio under control *and* gain some FTP. Getting out of "you suck" ftp (maybe 225) + a bunch of weight loss would work.

260+ watts for 6 minutes is a lot. in the long run, the answer is definitely get the total load/weight down. i can say from experience that with an FTP in the 225-250 range, total weight in the 200lb range, it’s possible to ride pretty much any “normal” paved roads in north america with 1:1 gearing. one of my cross streets has a 21% slope, and while i don’t like to ride up it, i can. my typical rides include similar stretches to what you describe, 6% typ with peaks in the 8-12 range, for miles and miles. the pinion seems like a good stepping stone for you. if you get the weight down and power up a bit i think you’ll be amazed how much “easier” it is to climb on a light, efficient bike. it’s like riding your vado on eco

 

[dynamic]

it’s like riding your vado on eco

Not in vermont!

That's the dream. If I can get to the point where something like the priority pinion/diverge can work for the rides I have been doing on the vado, I will be very very happy. (Even if they take a *lot* longer)

Interestingly, I just did the same comparison for 160lb vs 170lb total weight. (138+diverge and 138+priority 600) and the power difference was only 12 watts. So it got *smaller*. Interesting. 115 vs 127 watts at 5mph. That means at my FTP I could be going 7.5 mph up my hill on the diverge if I lost 100 lbs. .

You know, this brings up a thing. I got passed by a guy on what looked like a normal bike going up to my house (on this 8.8% grade stretch). He said, as he passed me "those e-bikes are fast". And I was like "You are making me look bad!".

I honestly thought it was a car based on the radar dot speed. And when he spoke it scared the crap out of me. I don't really want to be that guy. I will never be silly skinny on a tiny bike. But the ability to do that has got to be amazingly enjoyable.

In other news, new shoes (45 nrth ragnarok), wahoo roam v2 and the sql labs 602 ergolux active are either here, or will be here this week. While I don't have a bike. *sigh*.

I just couldn't deal with the idea of riding a bike that isn't mine today. The bike shop said I could swap the pedals and seat post, but I was just deflated about it. I want *MY BIKE BACK*. My bike. Mine. My own. My precious. It's been called that before and not by you.

Ok, I'm done.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Pinion is 90-91% efficient. Perfectly maintained derailleur is 95-96% (enviolo is ~85% and rohloff at 94%). Specifically against the diverge evo which is the largest gear ratio bike of this type I can find (mountain bikes have lower gear ranges but not as good geometry). I didn't look at 14K s-works to see if they have a bigger range.

If the goal is to "get up the hill" then the pinion wins. Because it will enable you to maintain a higher cadence more easily *even* with the extra weight. Essentially, the pinion has several more gears below the diverge minimum.

Example:

191 watts for diverge vs 206 watts for priority 600. Using 22 and 32 lb weights for these bikes and their relative efficiencies and 5.0 speed on 6% grade. To get to 5mph @ 80 rpm, I am in the diverge lowest gear. Pinion has 2 more gears available. This should mean climbing will be easier and/or faster on the priority 600 on steeper grades. Or, the pinion can handle a *slightly* steeper grade given the same rider.

It's possible I messed up the math.

See for yourself.

You didn't mention the pinion weight? Including the reinforced bottom bracket?

 

[dynamic]

You didn't mention the pinion weight? Including the reinforced bottom bracket?

I mentioned the total bike weight vs the diverge. Pinion still beats it on hard hills in this scenario.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

You haven't ridden it yet. Just a speculation

 

[dynamic]

You haven't ridden it yet. Just a speculation

Truth. Just math.

Though the reviews are really good. Apparently the pinion helps keep the balance centered so it is supposedly a very nice ride. The diverge has the advantage of future shock. It also had a dropper seat post, which I liked a lot. But not enough to beat a kinekt.

I have actually ridden the diverge, and I do like it, except for the fact that I couldn’t handle a hill at the time. And it was very quickly numbing my hands. I hadn’t figured out seat position at the time.

 

[dynamic]

The shop e-mailed me last night and said they are trying some other part at specialized request before they do the motor. IT should be here very soon. After that doesn't work they will send out a new motor.

Apparently one of the parts is the HMI cable for the controller, another speed sensor and some y splitter (that's the part I don't get). Will pop in to the shop today so they can show me.

But, right now, it looks like I won't have the bike for the fitting. If the part arrives and doesn't work, they can't possibly ship the motor until monday, assuming they reacted very quickly.

I also suspect there is *something* else wrong with the motor. Looking back on data, there seems to be an increase in battery usage. Originally, I just thought it was cause I was maxing the motor more frequently, but when I look at the data, that doesn't appear to be the case. It looks like I may be getting about 15% less battery life than I was on earlier similar rides.
Anyway, I have dropped the idea of riding until I get my bike back.

*trying not to order a 600. trying not to order a 600. will power. focus*

 

[dynamic]

More detail from the shop: Essentially, there is a bunch of cabling that goes between the motor, the mastermind controller and the sensor. They want to rule out a loose connection on all of that before they replace the motor.

I should know by monday or sooner if that is the problem.

Saw a Diverge STR in the shop today. That's a pretty drool worthy bike. Might be my long term goal. (If I ever get myself vested enough in *maintaining* a bike to accept a chain and can ride a drop bar gravel bike)

 

[mschwett]

…
Saw a Diverge STR in the shop today. That's a pretty drool worthy bike. Might be my long term goal. (If I ever get myself vested enough in *maintaining* a bike to accept a chain and can ride a drop bar gravel bike)

i know belts are cool, but chains are really easy. wipe ‘em off every couple rides, apply some lube now and then, replace every couple thousand. i find tires much more a PITA.

 

[dynamic]

i know belts are cool, but chains are really easy. wipe ‘em off every couple rides, apply some lube now and then, replace every couple thousand. i find tires much more a PITA.

I think it gets exponentially worse in cold, snowy, wet, salt ridden dirt/gravel roads. I think this may be why I always struggled with chains. Anywhere I have lived needed *constant* attention to keep a chain working well. The only chain bikes I have ever had work moderately well were single speed. I suspect *actively* winter riding will make that problem even worse than it has been previously.

Anywho, belt drive first. Not going to sacrifice that. Was just filtering through 99spokes to see if there is anything I missed out there.

 

[dynamic]

The ragnarok shoes arrived and they are easily, without question, the most terrible thing I have ever had on my feet. I feel like their sizing is like 3 sizes smaller than they claim. I wish I had bought the wolvhammer over the weekend at my bike shop when they were on sale. Same size fit amazingly well. Back they go. The search for winter cycling shoes continues.

 

[dynamic]

Wahoo elemnt roam v2 is here. This thing is refreshingly simple. However, I am pretty sure it still doesn't understand the trail. One difference though is getting RWGPS routes on it is crazy simple. What I don't know (yet) is what will happen if it needs to re-route. When RWGPS syncs a route, it includes road names. so it *looks* like it knows it, but not internally. Maps are up to date.

 

[dynamic]

I have mixed feelings about all these bike computers. Garmin 1040 is clearly the feature winner, but bugs make a lot of those features annoying instead of helpful. Garmin forerunner is working basically flawlessly, but due to being a watch it's useless for viewing on bike (and it may have the battery/routing issue of the 1040, still haven't tried navigation). I have also had to take it off as the band is irritating my wrist. The wahoo is simple and has not been on bike yet. I am hoping on bike performance makes it more appealing. But, it looks like its "climb" feature is currently half-baked at best. None of the built in maps have my trail so without trying each in scenarios with the trail, I have no idea how they will behave. Karoo has routeless climbing data that is currently better than garmin supposedly.

In terms of feature set, hill climbing data and easy workout interval integration are really what I want. And the 1040 currently probably does that best. Or maybe put my watch on the bike bar, use another HR sensor and use that for climb pro and interval training. That syncs from training peaks (as does wahoo). Wahoo syncs from/to like everything ever.

Hopefully wahoo becomes more convincing when on a ride.

 

[dynamic]

DUDE!!!!!! There are ant+ tire pressure sensors!??!!?!? Where have these been all my life?!

 

[mschwett]

DUDE!!!!!! There are ant+ tire pressure sensors!??!!?!? Where have these been all my life?!

there are bluetooth ones also….



and believe it or not, people are working on tires that can be reinflated or deflated while riding. totally ridiculous IMO, but if someone wants it …

 

[dynamic]

there are bluetooth ones also….

Sure, but I have to use ant to get anything useful out of the bike. So might as well get the rest of it ant.

Not many for schrader though. Gonna have to start buying all this stuff in pairs for the second bike.

 

[dynamic]

totally ridiculous IMO, but if someone wants it …

Totally ridiculous things can be fun!!!!

I am all for a tire that keeps itself at the specified pressure. I don’t care about on ride changes, but just not having to think about anything and keep riding is awesome.

 

[dynamic]

I have been researching other pinion and rohloff belt drive bikes and there just aren’t that many accessible models. Particularly in the U.S. in a few years I might be prepared to do one of those custom orders. But not until I really know what I want in a bike.

So the 600 or 600x is getting close to being ordered.

I saw a bike I really wanted in the LBS today. It was a surly ghost grappler. Basically a drop bar trail bike. Low gear ratio matched the 600 (not high of course) and it had 2.6 inch 650b stubby tires and dropper post. I might even go back and try it. I also saw a custom built carbon salsa fat bike with 5 inch studded tires. Yum.

Tried on a bunch of winter cycling boots. Wolvhammer are the only ones that fit. Ugh. Maybe if I got that fat bike.

It looks like power meter pedals are narrowed down to srm x-power for weight limit reasons. Unless I lose a bunch of weight, nothing else works. It would be a lot cheaper to do a left only crank arm. Or even one pedal. I suspect whatever I pick will be ordered with the 600/600x.

No update on the bike. There is a good chance the parts won’t arrive until monday at this point.

If I don’t get a ride in soon, I am going to lose it.

 

[mschwett]

It looks like power meter pedals are narrowed down to srm x-power for weight limit reasons. Unless I lose a bunch of weight, nothing else works. It would be a lot cheaper to do a left only crank arm. Or even one pedal. I suspect whatever I pick will be ordered with the 600/600x.

…

don’t do one sided unless you have a baseline of what your power balance is. drove me crazy switching between bikes when my aethos was only reading left side, because i’m pretty unbalanced. 45/55 makes it off by more than 10 percent. it’s also good to see after a couple rides if your power balance changes when climbing, pedaling faster, tired, etc.

 

[dynamic]

don’t do one sided unless you have a baseline of what your power balance is. drove me crazy switching between bikes when my aethos was only reading left side, because i’m pretty unbalanced. 45/55 makes it off by more than 10 percent. it’s also good to see after a couple rides if your power balance changes when climbing, pedaling faster, tired, etc.

Srm x power it is. But it is unobtanium at the moment. I would prefer the replaceable battery of the rally xc200. But I am over the weight limit. And apparently double sided crank power meters are pretty rare and not very well liked. Can’t do whole cranksets with a belt (I don’t think). I would also love the ability to shorten the crank arms at some point.

Will keep looking. Also needs to be spd for the pedal.