Experience Thread: A noobie getting into a specialized vado 5.0 IGH

[dynamic]

I am sitting in the coffee shop waiting for my new speed sensor to be installed. I took a 27.39 mile route to get there. My first 40k challenge is in the books! And, I didn't realize until I was leaving that one of the climbs was *easily* the biggest longest climb I have ever attempted. With the second climb being the former longest climb until this morning. This was hard. Moving time was exactly 2 hours. With an extra 9 minutes recorded for the two stops and auto-pause insanity ( this may not be super accurate, RWGPS is about 2 minutes different, and I am inclined to trust it more with the auto pause still losing it's mind and the system error for an unknown amount of time downhill).

According to RWGPS, the first climb was 4.3 miles at 1151 feet. I had to stop to remove the balaclava and rain coat. I was way too warm despite it being 34 degrees out. The second climb was 725 feet. This one is 2 miles of the 2.5 mile previous hardest climb I do. I also could not wear the glasses with the balaclava as they didn't unfog unless I was moving very quickly (read downhill). Total ascent is 2444 according to garmin and I haven't gone home yet. (another 400-500 I think). This easily dwarfed my previous rides in every way. Mileage, elevation gain, time, effort. All of it. And I can feel it. Everything hurts.

And, everything got numb about 60% through the ride. I just hit a limit. It got bad at around 75-80% through the ride. To the point that I almost changed routes for a shorter one. But I was also very tired, as I realized if I used turbo up that second hill, I might not have the battery to get home on this route. So I did almost the entire second hill in 50% assist (sport on my bike). At the last 1/4 mile or so of that hill, I lost will power to pedal and just went turbo survival mode. That was the last major ascent. I used sport (50%) or eco (20%) for the last 33% of the ride. I had 23% battery remaining when I hit the bike shop. Meaning, I could have taken the hill home (which can be 9-13% in turbo depending. no way I was going to try it in "sport").

The bike also reported a system failure (from the speed sensor) and I had to stop during a downhill to turn it on and off.

I also wore the shower pass rain pants for the first time. And the one issue with them is they made getting my leg over my seat height feel stiff and difficult. They were otherwise much better than the rain coat. Kept the chill out and didn't make me stupid warm.

My feet were starting to get cold numb. I will either need to get wraps to do this kind of thing in the winter, or start looking for winter cycling boots.

I asked the bike shop to charge my bike. Assuming they do, I will have zero issues on the ride home.

What a ride. I may take the weekend off (garmin is telling me to). WKO has interesting things to say about this that confuse me a bit.

Onward!

 

[dynamic]

It's three and a half hours from the end of the ride and I am still toasted. I let the bike shop know I will pickup the bike tomorrow at earliest (mostly because the thought of riding it home was.... unappealing. I finally crossed a line). I am going to dig into WKO training material. And probably take the weekend off from cycling. Lots of new stuff to look into/understand.

 

[mschwett]

@dynamic what’s your average rider power for those two hours? you’re probably starting to get to the point where thinking about calories burned vs replenished while and immediately after riding is important, regardless of the intensity of an individual climb or sprint.

for me personally, 200-220w is sustainable for about two hours without eating or drinking anything special (corresponds to about 1,600 calories, a good match to the readily available energy store in muscle glycogen!) beyond that, a sugar rich meal an hour before plus a couple bottles of gatorade and a bar or two on the ride will get me to 200w for three and a half hours (2,800 calories or so). beyond THAT, i need a 15 minute stop in the middle for more serious food as well as more calories in the bottles throughout the ride.

the good news about the caloric side of all this is that it’s actually really simple since you have a power meter.

 

[dynamic]

what’s your average rider power for those two hours?

See screenshot. This wasn’t as hard by the numbers.

I would not be surprised if eating helped. I consumed a latte after and it certainly helped me feel better (it did have some sugar). The problem is I also subscribe to intermittent fasting. So, the workouts may need to suffer. I really can’t consume significant carbs without paying some kind of penalty in other ways. I don’t even drink water on these rides (not against it, just don’t feel the need which is why I don’t have a water bottle holder).

There is absolutely no question that I drained any energy my body had on this ride. I don’t think I have felt so sapped in a very long time. I am really glad I didn’t do this on a day where I needed to function afterwards.

My wife and I went out to lunch and I broke my carb rule. (Hard not to at some restaurants). I am still clearly Recovering. Even the garmin watch has said “you are still recovering and I can’t measure your stress”.

The WKO model is fascinating. It took this ride as reduced stress and increased my training readiness. It will level out once there is enough data in there.

I am narrowing down my goals. And if the cold doesn’t keep me from riding, I suspect I will start training toward those goals starting the end of november/early december.

 

[dynamic]

According to the LBS, the new sensor made the problem worse.

It starts. *sigh*

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Derrek,
Congratulations on your first 44 km / 745 m ride!
Strava reads 2 h 1 min, and that is realistic, right?
I typically get some longer ride time on Wahoo but Strava seems to correct it anyway.

 

[dynamic]

Derrek,
Congratulations on your first 44 km ride!
Strava reads 2 h 1 min, and that is realistic, right?
I typically get some longer ride time on Wahoo but Strava seems to correct it anyway.

Strava got the data from garmin. It may be a few minutes off due to the technology issues. But no more than a few minutes.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Strava got the data from garmin. It may be a few minutes off due to the technology issues. But no more than a few minutes.

Strava also gets the data from Wahoo. I think Strava analyses the exported .FIT file and makes own calculation of the moving time. I think that's pretty accurate!
At the same time, there is some glitch between the data transfer from any Wahoo computer I ever owned to Strava, and it is only related to my Vado SL. That e-bike throws a "Motor Error" message at times (I don't care about it!) Even if the Wahoo ride summary reports the Max Speed perfectly, Strava always gets it wrong, reporting absurdly high top speed! Never happened to my Vado 5.0!

 

[dynamic]

Derrek,
Congratulations on your first 44 km / 745 m ride!
Strava reads 2 h 1 min, and that is realistic, right?
I typically get some longer ride time on Wahoo but Strava seems to correct it anyway.

Clarification, it's an accurate moving time. the total duration was 2:10 I think.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Clarification, it's an accurate moving time. the total duration was 2:10 I think.

By the way, I was not aware you had so many steep hills around!

 

[dynamic]

By the way, I was not aware you had so many steep hills around!

And these aren’t the big boys yet. These are just the nearest routes of this length. I suspect that the road roughness plus these hills are a big part of my comfort issues. From town to my house is 1.7 miles and a 350 foot ascent. My basic loop of around 11 miles (which includes town) is 750 feet ascent. This is the least elevation I can do and go on a real ride that isn’t laps on my street. My favorite backroad loop is 1444 feet of ascent for 14.8 miles. Most of these have one or two big climbs that represent a large portion of the total ascent (700-1000). Most of the backroads are dirt and gravel.

I don’t see bikers on the hills very often. I am the only idiot riding them. But town and the bike path can be swamped with people.

Stupid bike. Not going to make my october goals now.

 

[dynamic]

So, specialized wants the bike shop to try with the magnet sensor “closer” to rule out interference.

Right now, it looks like there is a loose connection somewhere inside the motor. So, I am betting new motor.

 

[dynamic]

I think I need to seriously consider a backup bike. Problem is I still want power/speed/cadence/radar sensors. And that seems like a very expensive add-on to a normal bike.
I am very frustrated with specialized (again). Anyway, starting to regret this bike. With the priority current I immediately had two in the same size. And switched to my wife's when necessary. *sigh* Now I need to rent if I want to finish my october challenges.

 

[dynamic]

I think I am going to have to add a bike computer back to the mix. Simply because the watch isn’t practical for directing training programs.

I really like what I am learning from WKO. I plan to integrate interval training into some of my rides and I simply want an easy way to do it. Wahoo is next on the list.

But first, I need to solve the next couple weeks of biking. Tomorrow I am renting a vado. Probably a 3.0 igh that the shop has. Less battery, less power, no radar, no automatic, and probably few of my things (grips, saddle, etc).

I am also likely ordering a priority 600 in the not to distant future as backup. The diverge costs the same but lacks belt/gear range. All the turbo SL models cost quite a bit more (even more with the battery extender). One advantage of the SL is I don’t need to add as many sensors (and that adds up fast in cost.).

Since my wife and I ride the same size, she suggested getting her bike early. Problem is: no stock.

Anyway, hopefully I will get a ride in tomorrow.

 

[mschwett]

I think I am going to have to add a bike computer back to the mix. Simply because the watch isn’t practical for directing training programs.

…

you’re probably going to gradually discover there’s a reason most experienced people in cycling (and in most things lol!) do things certain ways! unless your use case differs significantly enough from the broader criteria (for example, i don’t have frequent rain, any snow, gloves etc to deal with, so there are no downsides at all to using a phone as my computer) the most common solution works best. in this case … a bike computer.

good luck with the rental / second bike scenario. frustrating, no doubt.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Derrek,
Have you actually demo ridden any of the bikes you mentioned as a potential backup?

Wahoo would be good because of the reliable buttons. I have recently written a review of the new Wahoo Roam with special stress on the idiosyncrasies of the ELEMNT bike computers on the first and second use. In case you buy the new Roam, please read that review not to decide early you have bought a dud

Wahoo ELEMNT (Roam and Bolt v2) on Specialized e-bikes (Garmin Edge compared)

Why Did I Write It? I already wrote about Wahoo ELEMNT Roam in a thread I started when I was in search of a good e-bike capable GPS computer. Now, I want to summarize my experiences in this separate thread. Foreword To keep it short: Wahoo ELEMNT Roam GPS bike computer is the direct competitor...

electricbikereview.com

Also, some features (such as MTB Trails) are to be added by new updates (this is what I have just read elsewhere).

 

[dynamic]

Have you actually demo ridden any of the bikes you mentioned as a potential backup?

No. And I won’t be able to.

please read that review not to decide early you have bought a dud

I will. Maybe wait until the dud problems are worked out.

you’re probably going to gradually discover there’s a reason most experienced people in cycling

Absolutely. But I also find lots of times where the way things are done is largely out of bias (this is much more prevalent in cycling for some reason). Example, there is a comment above being obnoxious because I clip-in on this bike. I doubt I will ever ride another bike without clipping in. It’s that much better. If I had listened to the “experienced cyclists” I would never have discovered that.

I also tend to live outside the “norm” of goals. I threw a bunch of the WKO people off with my desire to use it but also “not being an athlete” and “don’t want a coach”.

good luck with the rental / second bike scenario. frustrating, no doubt.

Thanks. If this had happened within my official return window, I would have returned this bike and moved on. In which case I will probably suffer through a non-electric option if I can. I don’t think it’s coincidence that three out of three electric bikes I have owned appeared to develop some sort of motor issue.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

the dud problem

There is no dud problem whatsoever.
The GPS acquisition on the first use is slow, and it is perfect on the third use. All ELEMNT computers were like that. Also, all sensors of my Vado SL were detected instantly and neatly integrated into the single "E-Bike sensor". However, the cadence and speed sensors for my full power Vado were only detected in the middle of the first ride. (Wahoo always shows a single "E-Bike Sensor"only ; the indication for Cadence and Power is when you start seeing these figures in the Workout page).

I was just patient as I knew my previous ELEMNT computers have been perfectly working after I gave them some time "Patience" is the keyword here!

 

[dynamic]

The garmin forerunner absolutely feeds my inner data geek. The problem is: I don't really feel like the data it shows me is inherently actionable. I already know I need to go to sleep earlier and control the things that keep me up or disrupt sleep (caffeine, screens, stress, wine... anything else). I am impressed that a device like this has figured out how to *sense* what my body is telling me. But, my body is telling me those things. Having the watch journal the pattern for me (as opposed to trying to track it myself) is fun, but not super necessary. I like that its battery life is good enough to track sleep (as opposed to my current apple watch).

I think if I lived in warmer weather, this thing could be my sole cycling accessory (assuming navigation doesn't go bat crap crazy like the edge 1040). The problem is I don't live there. And, on bike, it's a great data gathering device, but not a great interactive device simply because it lives under at least one layer much of the time. Maybe I could get audio feedback from some headphones for navigation and training.

One "advantage" of the garmin, is if I end up with garmin pedal power meters on a "regular bike", this maximizes the potential. *However*, the commentary on those pedals is that the cycling dynamics doesn't really give you any actionable data. So, back to the same issue. And due to ant+ standardization, all the actionable data comes through on basically all devices. That also means there is no reason to get a power meter in both pedals, and can just do one saving a chunk of cash. (Leaning pedal over crank arm or other power meter currently, but that could change).

So basically, I like the forerunner. It's a great device for what it is. But as the novelty of having a fun new data driven device wears off, I find myself just wanting the bike data and moving on.

One thing I haven't done with it is try and integrate it into other activities. One reason, is I am spending all my activity time on biking. So strength training and jump rope have taken a backseat to cycling. I doubt I will ever take up running again, but if I did, it should be an excellent match (particularly in combination with the garmin chest HRM I have).

In other news, I am a bit hesitant to rent an e-bike for a week at $300+ to solve the biking problem. So, I am likely giving up on hitting my remaining october goals. Specialized has not responded to the bike shop about what they want to do next. So, stuck in limbo for the time being.

They have a couple sirrus and diverge models at the bike shop in my size currently. And I *could* change the chain ring to get them closer to priority 600 gear inches. Assuming I do my fitting (possibly without my bike), I think I am going to talk to them about what bike I should get to backup the vado. I am hesitant to give specialized more money at this point. And, my experience with priority support was so good, it's easy to justify a regular bike from them.

I also looked at renting a regular bike, I just didn't have the energy to try and tackle a non-powered ride at that time. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[OrTrek]

FWIW, if your looking at a "regular" bike maybe here is an option to the Priority 600 - Spot Acme. Actually on sale now ($400 0ff). Nothing wrong with the 600 (I'm a fan of Priority bikes and their Apollo is on my short list). But the Acme, while it doesn't have the Pinion, it is belt driven and is about 5#'s lighter (about 25#'s). Spot makes some great bikes. Based in Golden, CO I believe.

Acme

It’s no secret that the hunched-over geometry of road bikes alienates many cyclists. Enter the Acme, a city bike that hums along at road speeds while also allowing you to actually enjoy the ride.

spotbikes.com