Experience Thread: A noobie getting into a specialized vado 5.0 IGH

[dynamic]

Just to confirm Roam 1, Bolt 2 and Roam 2 all have had the updated world maps. The map updates happen once in several months. The v2 devices have far more of memory than the older computers. That enabled Wahoo Fitness to use maps with elevation data (sadly missing from v1). As the amount of memory on Bolt v2 still required me to delete several big maps to free the memory up, the 32 GB on Roam 2 lets me keeping all the maps as provided. Meaning, were I to travel to your neighbourhood, I could go on the Cross Vermont Trail together with you!

The wahoo might get a chance. Garmin is nice, but a bike computer would still be easier in the winter.

Installed the kinekt stem tonight. Even used the torque wrench. Should be an interesting ride tomorrow!

 

[dynamic]

Have you tried the HRM extension strap if your chest strap is too small?

It's not too small. It just rolls. Annoying more than anything else.

Garmin has these in the profile - navigation settings.

I honestly didn't try the garmin navigation from an RWGPS route. There were too many issues with the 1040 to bother with it. The forerunner is working reasonably well. But the only reason I might keep it is the platform/ecosystem. It offers much more than just bike stuff. Navigation with the watch is just silly (I haven't tried it, but much of the time it will be buried under a coat and gloves, so, pointless).

The advantage to forerunner is what it does off bike, and the ease of use. If the off bike stuff ends up not being useful enough, a wahoo computer will likely be the solution. The watch is still "training" itself to me and not all training data is available yet (takes 3-4 weeks). And it clearly is a bit confused on some things at the moment. But, I really like having something that just auto checks max HR, ftp, vo2max.... etc and provides objective data around it.

 

[dynamic]

So, the watch finally gave me an FTP adjustment.... and then it was overrun by another notification and I didn't get a chance to accept or reject it. This lead me to looking at training peaks and WKO today. I just wanted a greater understanding of FTP and other metrics. I had to prune my data since a bunch of it has no power meter until the beginning of the month when I started using MC or a Garmin device.

So, my "real" FTP makes a lot more sense. It's an interesting metric. I am pretty sure, on a good day, with the right segment, it would be a fair bit higher. But as a measure of "daily" riding not "lab" riding, it seems pretty good. My VO2max is pretty terrible. But, the estimates are also wildly different from the different services. While FTP is pretty similar.

I do see why garmin is fairly popular. Understanding the stuff going on in WKO is time consuming. As a data geek, I find it pretty fascinating. As a cyclist, I don't really know what to do with most of it. Garmin distills it down into "hey, you are not getting enough rest and training to hard. chill." or "today is a good day for an all out ride". Those types of statements are much more consumable for a cyclist that wants to spend as much time on the bike *without* hurting fitness efforts.

Finally, I am using some minor products I haven't talked about:

castelli perfetto max gloves. I bought these because of the bulk of the specialized gloves. And in that respect they are great. As with most gloves, I have wide / large palms and short fingers creating some fit issues. In this case, the tips of the fingers are hard to use with the phone. Also, the space between the fingers always feels tight as the gloves tend to slip a bit tighter while biking. Outside of that, they are very good. I am really happy I went with the "max" model which is for the coldest temperatures (but I could see myself getting the light set for spring time). I don't think they are as warm as the specialized, and may not be suitable for winter in vermont. But I prefer them, as even when it's in the 50's they are usable for wind chill or rain without being overly warm. They also have fairly substantial vibration reduction. Possibly better than my fingerless gel gloves. I found these hour long rides to be pretty low on numbness even on rougher roads. Good gloves. They would basically be perfect if they fit just a bit better. (very few gloves fit me better than these do)

kinekt saddle bag. I love it. I don't take the arkel if I have no intention of doing something functional on the trip and won't need storage or the locking chain. The saddle bag fits my bike tool, wallet, keys and leatherman easily. It has inside and outside pockets that can keep small items secure, all while molding nicely to the kinekt seat post. It's a "waterproof" bag. This is a silly statement, as, while the material will certainly repel water, there is a gap from the zipper. This is under the back flap of the bag, so, effectively, it should be relatively rain proof. If I can get my chain attached in such a way that it won't rattle and annoy me, the pannier will get left behind on all but functional runs to pickup/dropoff something.

A comment on the rain coat. It really needs to be below a certain temperature to be desirable. Today, I used it because of threat of rain, and a dreary low 50's ride on a wet feeling colder than it is day is *just* cold enough to make it work. I still came home unnecessarily sweatier than I needed to be, but it wasn't a "peel this thing off me right now" situation. I think the rain coat might be my least favorite bit of gear I have purchased so far. Certainly high on the list for alternate solutions.

I also bought a balaclava but have not used it on a ride. The afternoons have been 30 degrees warmer than the mornings and I just can't justify going out in freezing weather just to try the thing. On the surface, it looks really good. Will talk more about it after I use it once. I also haven't tried the rain pants yet. I suspect they will fall in line with the rain coat on temp/conditions.

Any other gear I have mentioned and not complained about is "just working". The glasses, seat post, pannier... etc.

I plan to order an sql lab saddle to replace the respiro. I like their concepts. And they seem to put a lot of thought into their products. Unfortunately, my weight rules out a large portion of their (anyone's) saddles. So, I only have a couple of choices. I am looking for other alternatives, but I suspect once I get some clarifying questions answered from them, I will be ordering it ASAP.

The kinekt stem went on the bike tonight. So, I am very excited for tomorrow's ride! On the surface, the fit feels much better. The bars are higher up and the reach is really not much longer. I have the grips set a bit better as well I think. I picked the medium spring with the performance damper in it. No particular reason, just wanted to start somewhere. For me, the point is absorbing vibration over bumps. The suspension does the bumps pretty well, but "smooth" dirt roads can drive my hands crazy.

Happy Riding!

 

[dynamic]

First stem ride is in. I don't consider this ride to be a good measure of numbness reduction because 1) I had to shorten my ride 2) I tried to go gloveless, but it became too cold/wet so I put gloves on mid ride 3) the vado went insane constantly trying to pair ( stopped a couple times mid ride before I resolved it ) 4) Due to road closure and shortening the ride, I didn't get to test it on the worst uphill or downhill sections I know of.

Weather wise it was miserable. 50 degrees that feels much colder because of the wetness and light rain. I wore my hoodie, but the rain coat would have been a better choice.

Hopefully I will get a nice day to go gloveless and do a better numbness test than today.

First point: I only found *any* numbness because I was actively looking for it. It was so minor, I didn't notice it unless I took my hand off the bars and clenched my fist. So, for this ride, it was a win. But this isn't a numbness torture test.

Second point: I did not keep my hands in a single position. So, the moving around could have dominated the de-numbing.

Third point: In putting on the stem I adjusted the grips/bar ends for the most neutral position I could. This change may also have had an effect.

Fourth point: Due to very little sleep, I opted for more of a recovery style ride. That meant a lot of high speed turbo usage at moderate heart rates. No exceedingly hard climbs or rough descents.

I ran with the medium spring and performance damper. And the effect is interesting. The bike is rattling as I go over these rough roads, and I can hear it doing so, but the sensation that hits my hands does not correspond with what I am hearing. Initially, I thought I didn't put things on correctly and tighten it down. But, everything was solid. The big bumps are blocked out even more, to the point that some smaller potholes don't feel as necessary to avoid. I still generally do, but I wanted to see the feeling.

The reach: I am really not sure about it yet. I really need some time gloveless in nice weather so I can just go wherever I want.

As stated above, there was basically no numbness. Whether that will continue with more intense rides, without gloves, I don't know.

A garmin observation: It is really good at picking up stress reactions. It told me last night that I should probably slow down and do a breathing exercise. I was putting the stem on my bike, and I had also had caffeine with dinner which I normally don't do. So the entire evening had much higher stress readings than normal. I couldn't even get to sleep and ended up staying up late. So I am exhausted today. I want to see if I can flag time periods or readings with a label so I can see if this is *always* when I have caffeine late in the day.

Anywho, fun times. Gonna keep going.

 

[dynamic]

Selle royal is not covering this cracked saddle. I will contact amazon to see if they will take a return after the return window.

I will not purchase a selle royal product again.

 

[dynamic]

So, I have a road closure that's really been messing with cycling. It blocks the 1.7 mile route into downtown making the next shortest route to get there 6 miles. And the return trip is up the steepest/longest paved hill I know of near my house. I have not tried it yet in the uphill direction. IT's the most fun hill I have done downhill. After that I have an 8+ mile option through back roads or a 9.5 mile option which is my standard loop (I typically do this one way into town and come home the 1.7 mile "hill home"). I have never done it reversed, and that may be an issue as I am not sure the bike lane exists on the other side of the road (not a huge issue. but there is a reason nearly all my loops run clockwise in the U.S. Avoids nearly every intersection issue). That means a round trip to town is between 12 and 18 miles depending on my choices. It also cuts off all my larger backroad loops since every single one of them uses this road either at the beginning, the end, or both.

I may just go that way and pickup the bike to walk around the construction if possible. But it's not a fun thing to do. It's also 30 degrees out and crazy foggy. Getting a bit deflated about it. The fog is really off-putting. Visibility is poor outside of 30 feet and basically gone at 50. Not good for being seen by cars.

It will still be 20-30 degrees warmer later in the day. Hopefully I will get to go for *some* kind of ride then.

Other note: Unless weather is terrible the first week of november, I am planning to ride my bike 20 miles to the bike fitter and 20 miles back. This will be my longest single day of riding, but *not* the most elevation gain (particularly if I carefully pick my route). I plan on bringing my charger in case the route needs a bunch of turbo time. *OH* that mileage is *assuming* the road is no longer closed. I definitely will need to balance battery life with speed for a round trip with no charging.

I am still a bit on the fence about such an expensive fitting. While my issues aren't "gone" they really are tolerable. ANd I don't know how much improvement it will buy me. I already know that "hey lose some weight" is probably the single best thing I could do for bike comfort. I also tend to be a really good independent learner. If I had the parts to adjust my handlebar and maybe even crank length, I would probably get there on my own in the end.

I pulled the trigger on the sq lab saddle. 602 ergolux active 2.0 (in my size) because the 621 seemed to upright and only the ergolux and m/d models of those two designs are certified for my weight. I plan on adding a tube, pump and wrench/tire pryer so I can change my own flat. Maybe a water bottle holder. Possibly a frame bag of some variety to hold some of this stuff. After the saddle and any changes from the bike fit, I will consider the build "done". Next will be accessories like the burley cargo trailer, additional shoes/winter gear. Possibly other stuff to make the bike more useful through more seasons ( tires for sure ).

A buddy of mine is trying to convince me to buy a fat tire bike so I can do snow trails (possibly with him). I am not justifying a second bike (of any variety) for a while. I don't know how big a tire I can put on the vado if I remove the fenders, but it might be neat to find out. And there are trails in my backyard that I see people biking/skiing/walking year round. Given I was ok with the vado on the trail stuff I have (accidentally) done, I am not opposed to trying it if it has sufficient traction.

Happy riding!

 

[TonyB6255]

Selle royal is not covering this cracked saddle. I will contact amazon to see if they will take a return after the return window.

I will not purchase a selle royal product again.

That is why I buy all that stuff from REI. No questions asked returns...

 

[dynamic]

That is why I buy all that stuff from REI. No questions asked returns...

Yep. Started buying there for that reason. The annoying thing is I was actually in an REI and saw the saddle there the day after I ordered it. I didn't wait for this one because amazon would get it to me in a day for 30% less money. Amazon took the return though. So, all is well.

The irony here, as someone who is known as the "king of returns" pretty much everything I purchased from REI is a keeper so far. Meanwhile, I get frustrated letters from amazon about various return issues once in a while when amazon gets mad at me for returning stuff like the 1040 solar.

Great ride today. Will post in a minute about the stem.

 

[dynamic]

The only time I had numbness on this ride was when I started to get tired about 75% through and my core strength wavered. I let myself lean more forward more when that happens. I caught myself and put more energy into maintaining position. The numbness I felt was very minor and pretty much evaporated when I focused on keeping weight off the hands. The saddle discomfort was much more of a problem than hand numbness. Now, this was still gloved. But a 14+ mile run on backroads with almost no numbness is a really good result. It was a really nice ride. I used whatever hand position felt right for the situation. And I went for "moderate" riding meaning I didn't want to max out my heart rate. The forerunner told me this should be a rest day (also, while at the same time telling my training readiness was good). I told forerunner to buzz off, I was going for a ride. I didn't push hard for records, but honestly, I came pretty close to them anyway. Next time I do that route when I don't hold back, I think new records will be set.

I stopped at the bike shop to check on speed sensor and check that I did some stem work correctly. I had actually not quite done it right (but not particularly a problem). Speed sensor is in and he could have installed it today, but I opted for friday. Belt guard is also in. Will hopefully go an a long ride friday afternoon after the bike is "fixed".

Fun times!

 

[dynamic]

To no one’s surprise, I am getting more and more frustrated with iphone navigation using gloves. And I am not really sure what to do about it. It seems a bit excessive to get something like the wahoo or karoo 2 *just* for navigation when the garmin forerunner will still be the primary recording tool.

The advantage of garmin’s platform is they distill the data down to useful advice. You can do a lot more with WKO, but only if you actually know what you are doing.

Garmin ties a lot of their data tools to their devices. If I want the garmin platform, I really should keep a garmin device. Ideally one that can do round the clock monitoring as the off bike stuff is as important as on bike in terms of training.

The other option is to simply ditch navigation. Most of my routes, I won’t need it. But sometimes it will be very handy.

The watch hasn’t fully trained/adapted to me yet. Will see how it does once all data parameters are working based on the necessary history.

I would love to have something like cycling focused google glass right about now. Navigation on my glasses and phone in the bag.

Ah well. Will keep trying things. Maybe their are glove solutions to the touch screen issues.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Maybe their are glove solutions to the touch screen issues.

If you still have some spare space on the bars, there are handlebar remotes for Garmin Edge computers.

 

[dynamic]

If you still have some spare space on the bars, there are handlebar remotes for Garmin Edge computers.

I don’t think the edge has this problem. But I didn’t try it with gloves. Cell phones are typically capacitive touchscreens. They track electrical impulses. This is why water messes up phones. And only gloves with a conductive material on the tips “work”. I believe edge devices are resistive which functions under pressure. So, gloves work fine and rain won’t effect it (unless it’s high enough pressure to overcome the resistance). So, the edge shouldn’t “need” the bar remote.

My problem with gloves is that my fingers are never at the tips. So, even with the conductive material at the tips, it is hard to activate consistently. This also does nothing about a wet screen. Which just makes the touch crazy if it responds at all on capacitive devices.

If garmin could navigate here, I would consider going back to the 1040. Unfortunately, it’s just not ready to deal with my area.

So, I am seeing if there are any other platforms that can analyze the data without being overly complicated. WKO does, but it’s pretty complicated. And it doesn’t touch off bike data at all.

Garmin has a pretty good lock-in strategy. And I am finding the off bike data to be more useful than on bike (which basically everyone can do). Only other smart watch type options do off bike data.

 

[mschwett]

…

If garmin could navigate here, I would consider going back to the 1040. Unfortunately, it’s just not ready to deal with my area.
…

the garmin map issue is odd. they’re pretty much known as the absolute best of the outdoor navigation platforms, with dozens of kinds of devices used for everything from trekking to bikepacking and ultrarunning.

a good friend of mine rode from canada to argentina and back (with a few boats and trains here and there) on a fat bike using a garmin oregon unit primarily. he hardly ever rode on roads. it’s surprising that a trail in vermont wouldn’t be covered if the back country of patagonia or the atacama desert is! what did garmin have to say about the issue?

 

[dynamic]

what did garmin have to say about the issue?

No idea. Didn't ask. After I had found confirmation of each of the issues I ran into on garmin forums, I decided not to pay to be a beta tester. I have a thread with garmin over a different issue around the watch. (not so much an issue, just trying to understand how some of the things work). I could tack on asking about the trail.

The cross vermont trail *is* under constant improvement. I ride past a section where they are re-routing/extending it. I guess I will find out how fast that extension hits RWGPS once it is complete. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the ones that update openstreetmaps and thus have updated data *available* to vendors immediately. Don't know where/how garmin gets its data.

 

[dynamic]

So, for the first time ever, garmin responded quickly. Apparently they do use openstreetmaps and told me I could submit an update. I told them it already works in other products that use OSM. I sent them screenshots from their app and RWGPS to show the missing trail.

We shall see where that goes.

In other news, I am a bit obsessed with learning WKO. Really neat data analysis.

 

[Allan47.7339]

Other note: Unless weather is terrible the first week of november, I am planning to ride my bike 20 miles to the bike fitter and 20 miles back. This will be my longest single day of riding, but *not* the most elevation gain (particularly if I carefully pick my route). I plan on bringing my charger in case the route needs a bunch of turbo time. *OH* that mileage is *assuming* the road is no longer closed. I definitely will need to balance battery life with speed for a round trip with no charging.

I am still a bit on the fence about such an expensive fitting. While my issues aren't "gone" they really are tolerable. ANd I don't know how much improvement it will buy me. I already know that "hey lose some weight" is probably the single best thing I could do for bike comfort. I also tend to be a really good independent learner. If I had the parts to adjust my handlebar and maybe even crank length, I would probably get there on my own in the end.

A good bike fit will not magically make riding easy but will go a long way towards preventing many riding issues such as saddle sores and developing other aches and pains. While some people can get there with a self fit and a blind squirrel may find some nuts, most people will benefit from a fit session. I was convinced for many thousands of miles I could do my own fit but I had some issues I could never quite solve. You do need to check with the fitter to make sure they work with all types of riders and not just athlete fits. It may take a couple of follow-up sessions if things are way out of balance because they can't change everything at once. The rider needs time to adapt to the new position.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Recently, I made several interesting observations not directly related to the matters raised in this thread but close enough.

Route planning
My recent rides involved trips to or across our capital city Warsaw. I am a born Warsawer, live in the suburbs, and the destinations were perfectly familiar to me. Not the best routes, though; these had to be found by different route planning systems.

• I am actually fond of RWGPS. The routes as planned by the site or app have always been reliable, safe, even scenic but not necessarily shortest or fastest.
• The system that works perfectly here, Mapy.cz (a site and app) creates comprehensive routes that are typically shorter than the ones suggested by RWGPS. The user is presented with three alternative routes. If I am to use Mapy.cz, I export the GPX, upload it to RWGPS, re-trace it there and send to my Wahoo.
• Surprisingly enough, asking my Wahoo to "Take me... Home" has always resulted in the shortest (and boring) route, requiring me to ride with traffic (or on sidewalk) at times. Wahoo navigation was ideal for my Vado 5.0 rides as this specific e-bike legally allows me riding with traffic even if bike paths are present.

Bike fitting
My older Vado 5.0 is limited by its geometry and is not easily configurable (for instance, the Specialized integration makes it very hard to replace the stem there). I did everything possible to improve the body fit for that e-bike and am generally satisfied (my longest rides ever -- both over 100 miles -- were done on the Vado).

Meanwhile, I did many things to make my Vado SL ideally fit my body. My recent rides all involved the "big" Vado until the motor died after 14,000+ km (and is in the repair). What a surprise when I changed from Vado to Vado SL! I realised how much athletic position I could assume on Vado SL, and how painless and efficient rides I can do! With half of the motor power! No wonder my Vado SL handles so well in the rough terrain compared to my big Vado!

 

[dynamic]

I am actually fond of RWGPS.

It’s really nice. I just did an experiment with rwgps and strava. Strava has more route controls and I wanted to minimize elevation and avoid dirt for the route to the bike fitter. As usual RWGPS provided a default route that was almost certainly more scenic and more fun. I went and played with it until I avoided the hills myself and minimized elevation. It took a few minutes to do.

Strava produced exactly the same low elevation route on its own by just picking from the route options. However, I could never get it to produce a middle ground scenic route like the original RWGPS.

I really like RWGPS. Surprisingly, strava was really useful for once. That was a first.

I can’t wait until I can ride a more fun, lighter, agile bike! it will be a while before I can handle these hills all at less than 50% assist. I doubt I will want a more athletic position simply because of the nature of my roads. I also wouldn’t want to rule out light trail riding. Will see!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I have almost forgotten Strava had the route planning capability! It was after I tried to use Strava for turn-by-turn navigation to realize how hopeless the latter was!

Yes, Strava can plan routes. I have used it to check the latest long trip I had. Well, Strava could plan a slightly shorter (and still good) route than RWGPS could do!

 

[dynamic]

I have almost forgotten Strava had the route planning capability!

The strava mobile version is garbage. I used the web app which is honestly possibly the best one I have used. It's much easier to guide the route with "general" terms like "avoid gravel" etc. I think one of the other apps worked as well, but I don't remember which at this point. I don't normally care about that. But for a long 20 mile each way trip where I might need to do it on a single charge, I need to care. Longer distance with less elevation is better.

Just completed an insane (for me) ride. Gonna post on it shortly.