Experience Thread: A noobie getting into a specialized vado 5.0 IGH

[dynamic]

Derrek, let me tell you what. As long I was riding in more upright position, I suffered numb hands. I'm riding in a low athletic position now, and all the hand numbness and other numerous issues are gone. It took me 3 years to realize that. You cannot realize it in two months of hectic experiments.

First of all, sure I can. Second of all, what you are suggesting flys in the face of nearly every reputable bike fitter out there. What you need is balance from the saddle to the pedals in order to take weight off the hands. In your case, on your bike, this is a more athletic position. It may not be that way for me if for no other reason than nearly all my extra body weight is in my belly and upper body. So, I can't just shove the front of me forward *and* expect weight to be off my hands. Physics doesn't work like that. Pressure on the hands creates numbness. Now, if I could maintain that position with core strength alone, then weight on the hands would be largely irrelevant. This is why people use the fall over test. If you can't pedal in your position without holding the handle bars and you would fall off the bike, you have too much weight forward for you.

In a purely physics scenario, you move the main weight back, and support it additionally from the middle (in this case, our feet) reducing the load on the front. Simple enough. But when you have to move it so far back your reach is then the limiting factor. This also increases the angle of the pelvis and puts more weight in front of your feet because of the greater angle. When that "more weight" is the majority of the weight, it's just not a "more athletic position" is the answer type of thing. So, for any person it's a balance of available core strength, distribution of weight and body length.

Put another way, I bet you are taller than me *and* weigh less.

Moving the bars is the one thing I can't *easily* do. I have moved the saddle as much as my bike allows to follow bike fit guidelines from reputable sources.

 

[dynamic]

Rough ride today. I intentionally chose a route that was 78% dirt/gravel insanity (according to RWGPS). These are all roads I have done at least 2 or 3 times. I also trimmed it down a bit to 14.3 miles to avoid any of the larger/longer climbs. It had also just finished raining and I was nervous about these roads when they are wet.

Short version, I was sore and achey getting off the bike today. Part of that is the rivo saddle is much less accommodating on rougher roads. But there was a new ache, and that was my neck. And, I think that may have been from the inner bar ends. As stated previously, I think the design of the inner bar end on this bike might be a bit too narrow for me. I made myself use them for a large portion of the ride. But rough bits were highly uncomfortable. And this was on a glove day.

There were only two speed sensor blips during the entire ride. One was when the motor was off.

That's it for today. Selle Royal responded for additional information on a warranty replacement. And I think I will be going back to that saddle.

 

[GuruUno]

I assume I just need a new cap to cover the steerer tube hole?-Yes
I assume your clicking is actually coming from the bushings?-I wont know until I put it back, let you know...

The clicking is gone, now it's an annoying squeaking like a mattress. Sending it back to Kinekt to let them do their thing.
New stem coming tomorrow.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

And, I think that may have been from the inner bar ends.

Not for me.

 

[dynamic]

Selle royal has informed me that they don’t support products sold by third parties including direct from amazon ( not a third party seller ). As such, I have informed them I will no longer consider selle royal when their products break at 35 days (just outside of the return window) and they don’t support it. I told them they can give me a credit for the original purchase price and I will pay the difference and purchase direct from them for the replacement. We shall see what they say.

In the meantime, I need a respiro athletic alternative. Any ideas? Gonna research other comfortable gel saddles.

 

[dynamic]

Some garmin fun. The 1040 set my FTP wrong (I have no idea how it was set). It was set too high. And I think some aspects of the data have been somewhat invalidated by that setting. What surprised me, is garmin doesn't seem to be recognizing a pattern of not getting near your FTP and adjusting it. So, I set it *way down* figuring garmin will eventually figure it out. *However* It looks like garmin only does it at time of ride, and when your 20 minute average max power is better and the 95% number is greater than your current FTP.

So, I went on as hard a ride as I could on my standard loop. The problem is there is no 20 minute length of time where I was in a constant flat->uphill. This didn't qualify because no 20 minute section beat my past best. Even though average power and normalized power were way up compared to past rides.

The nutty thing, is there is no way to change it on past rides to get better data. It's unclear how much this is cascading into the overall recommendations garmin is making. But it is currently calling my training "unproductive" which seems a bit off to me.

Anyway, I have set the FTP way down, and I expect I should have a ride that causes it to adjust once I can do a longer uphill ride without backing off (for some reason).

 

[mschwett]

….What surprised me, is garmin doesn't seem to be recognizing a pattern of not getting near your FTP and adjusting it.

most of these algorithms have no way to know if a particular ride is really an all out effort, so they don’t lower the FTP automatically. otherwise every time you went on an easy cruise it would drop.

the strava one seems to be based on best effort over at least a year, maybe more.

did you do a guided FTP test? because otherwise garmin uses other initial estimates:

after that, it seems like it will only increase it upward unless you do a guided test.

 

[dynamic]

no way to know if a particular ride is really an all out effort, so they don’t lower the FTP very often.

The weird thing here is there are complaints of garmin offering to reduce FTP constantly. Maybe that changed. On the face of it, I agree with the logic, but not a single garmin recorded ride came anywhere near the FTP it had set. It seems like that should raise a red flag to garmin 1) cause I am maxing my heart rate and other metrics and 2) not getting anywhere near the FTP (possibly half of it. maybe a bit more).

Anyway, my larger concern is that it was wrong feeding into other data assessments. However, I am not sure garmin uses it outside of Power Zones on each ride. I don't need/care for it to be super accurate. But I would love for it to simply track improvements of my FTP. I know it *has* improved, but it's not shown in any graph over time (directly) because it was set well above what I can actually currently achieve (it's a flat line). That should be fixed from this point forward.

Besides, vo2 max, heart rate and other metrics are probably better at showing fitness improvements. A minor position change, as I have recently learned, can massively effect my power output to the pedal. But those rides could still be aggressive from a biology perspective.

I know I am pushing my limits because I have had exercise triggered asthma all my life. At the end of these really hard rides I am generally sent into a coughing fit. It's almost like I cleaned out the cobwebs in unused lung capacity. This has happened all my life with any intensely aerobic exercise (usually longer as well).

Also, my historical data had strava "estimated" power in some of the data. I pulled that from power curve estimations, so now my power curve makes sense. But garmin still calls my recent rides "unproductive" which doesn't make much sense. I wonder if they expect to see VO2max improvements very regularly?

 

[dynamic]

did you do a guided FTP test?

I already RTFM (hence knowing how they claim it behaves). No, and I won’t as I have no “constant pedaling” route that is 20+ minutes long *reliably*.

What I don’t understand is what set that FTP in the first place. But I do know it was set during the one day I used the 1040 (that’s where the graph starts). So, something I did that day triggered it. But the garmin recorded route didn’t come anywhere near that FTP.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Meanwhile, I bought, received, and configured the latest Wahoo ELEMNT Roam v2

 

[dynamic]

Meanwhile, I bought, received, and configured the latest Wahoo ELEMNT Roam v2

Cool! Does it have the cross vermont trail on it? (wahoo won't give me a straight answer)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Cool! Does it have the cross vermont trail on it? (wahoo won't give me a straight answer)

How do I know?

 

[dynamic]

How do I know?

I would hope you wouldn't. Why would you need U.S. maps!?!??!

Wahoo would require me going back to the chest strap. And while I am not sold that garmin's proprietary data stuff has value, not having to deal with a strap (unless I want to for some reason) has benefits for me. If I ever found a way to do an FTP test (read, made the effort to go to a location that gave me 20+ minutes of hard pedaling time), or went back to some couch to 5k running program, I would absolutely use the strap with the watch (my strap has data benefits for runners that the watch can't do alone). But for daily riding, the watch has enormous convenience. It just sits there, under my jacket and collects data.

Anyway, going off on a ride. Might do an aventure ride without a route plan. Just can't be out all afternoon.

 

[mschwett]

I already RTFM (hence knowing how they claim it behaves). No, and I won’t as I have no “constant pedaling” route that is 20+ minutes long *reliably*.

What I don’t understand is what set that FTP in the first place. But I do know it was set during the one day I used the 1040 (that’s where the graph starts). So, something I did that day triggered it. But the garmin recorded route didn’t come anywhere near that FTP.

it says that they use your user profile, and then VO2 max estimates… are you thinking they used something else?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Wahoo would require me going back to the chest strap.

How many times did I tell you I was using the Polar OH-1 wrist HR?

Your Garmin watch is ANT+. Meaning it works with the Wahoo.

Wahoo has the U.S. maps. Only I do not know how to plan an U.S. route with Wahoo. Tell me the locations of start and finish of the route. I will plan it with RWGPS and upload to Wahoo.

 

[dynamic]

Polar OH-1 wrist HR?

Fair point.

Your Garmin watch is ANT+.

True, but I would not keep the garmin if I were not using their platform. It's a stupidly expensive HRM.

I will plan it with RWGPS and upload to Wahoo.

Test Route

To test wahoo. - 7.2 mi, +214 ft. Bike ride in Montpelier, VT

ridewithgps.com

That's a route that starts on a road and then spends nearly the entire time on the cross vermont trail. A GPS route should be followable. A better question is could the Wahoo Elemnt App plan the same route taking advantage of the cross vermont trail. If it can't, then at best, the wahoo will simply offer non-navigation guidance like "you are off the route". The problem with that is if I have to re-route earlier (and I did today because of construction), the bike computer will not choose the bike trail in the re-routing process. 1040 had other issues around this that made it unusable.

 

[Allan47.7339]

Have you tried the HRM extension strap if your chest strap is too small? It does add comfort if the strap is otherwise stretched taut.

Garmin HRM Strap Extender

www.garmin.com

If you are trying to follow a specific RWGPS route it's best to have the course and navigation options set to either "off" or "prompt only" (depending on the option). If you temporarily lose GPS signal or if you turn slightly off the route, it will allow a choice of "pause navigation" or "reroute". If you "Pause" it will restart when you get signal or rejoin the route. Garmin has these in the profile - navigation settings.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

That's a route that starts on a road and then spends nearly the entire time on the cross vermont trail. A GPS route should be followable. A better question is could the Wahoo Elemnt App plan the same route taking advantage of the cross vermont trail. If it can't, then at best, the wahoo will simply offer non-navigation guidance like "you are off the route". The problem with that is if I have to re-route earlier (and I did today because of construction), the bike computer will not choose the bike trail in the re-routing process. 1040 had other issues around this that made it unusable.

It looks Wahoo ELEMNT Roam 2 can understand your neighbourhood very well Derrek

There is no "version 2" on the package. You can distinguish the new product by the back cover mentioning USB-C, 32 GB of memory and 64 colours. I had a while of panic when the GPS seemed to be acquiring the GPS fix for ages. I left the computer for some time on the balcony to get the fix (the Roam will get the fix instantly later).

I am absolutely sure your Garmin should be exactly capable and I still think you could have done something wrong with it.

 

[dynamic]

View attachment 138145
It looks Wahoo ELEMNT Roam 2 can understand your neighbourhood very well Derrek

There is no "version 2" on the package. You can distinguish the new product by the back cover mentioning USB-C, 32 GB of memory and 64 colours. I had a while of panic when the GPS seemed to be acquiring the GPS fix for ages. I left the computer for some time on the balcony to get the fix (the Roam will get the fix instantly later).

I am absolutely sure your Garmin should be exactly capable and I still think you could have done something wrong with it.

The difference is RWGPS and Wahoo use more up to date openstreetmaps. Garmin does not. I would not bet that the roam 1 has it though. It makes sense for a brand new device to have the latest data. Hopefully roam 1 has it as well. If not, that really answers the question.

Garmin simply doesn’t have the vermont trails on their map data. You can see that in their web app as well. The hammerhead one hasn’t updated their maps recently enough to have them routed correctly.

The 1040 had other stupidity. No regrets there. ;p

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Just to confirm Roam 1, Bolt 2 and Roam 2 all have had the updated world maps. The map updates happen once in several months. The v2 devices have far more of memory than the older computers. That enabled Wahoo Fitness to use maps with elevation data (sadly missing from v1). As the amount of memory on Bolt v2 still required me to delete several big maps to free the memory up, the 32 GB on Roam 2 lets me keeping all the maps as provided. Meaning, were I to travel to your neighbourhood, I could go on the Cross Vermont Trail together with you!