Experience Thread: A noobie getting into a specialized vado 5.0 IGH

[dynamic]

i think you’d see bigger problems from that relative to motor assist and error messages (although maybe you are!) but what i’d do is turn off auto-anything and go for a ride with minimal stopping. review the cadence and speed data in strava or tool of your choice. anomalies will be obvious; either shown as dropouts, spikes, or straight ramps from a data point on one side of the gap to the other. set x-axis to time, not distance.

Like attached. The problem is that is recorded by the garmin. What that doesn’t answer is if the garmin is messing up or the bike isn’t broadcasting. Previous rides don’t have a lot of spikes like that. With my luck, the problem is *also* new. Will look at previous rides closer. I did not stop on the above ride except for one intersection.

 

[mschwett]

Like attached. The problem is that is recorded by the garmin. What that doesn’t answer is if the garmin is messing up or the bike isn’t broadcasting. Previous rides don’t have a lot of spikes like that. With my luck, the problem is *also* new. Will look at previous rides closer. I did not stop on the above ride except for one intersection.

that’s useful. so, we know that the garmin is seeing speed drop to 0 intermittently. do you know definitively that the speed in the chart is from the bike’s speed sensor, or GPS, or an integration of the two?

 

[dynamic]

that’s useful. so, we know that the garmin is seeing speed drop to 0 intermittently. do you know definitively that the speed in the chart is from the bike’s speed sensor, or GPS, or an integration of the two?

Yes, it’s the speed sensor. And, the LBS connected their diagnostics thing and found a magnetic sensor error for the day the motor stopped. That is also when it started being intermittent (to my knowledge). The first ride after that was the first with the garmin forerunner.

I am checking MC rides to see if they show the issue. But right now this looks like a sensor problem plus poor timing.

 

[mschwett]

Yes, it’s the speed sensor. And, the LBS connected their diagnostics thing and found a magnetic sensor error for the day the motor stopped. That is also when it started being intermittent (to my knowledge). The first ride after that was the first with the garmin forerunner.

I am checking MC rides to see if they show the issue. But right now this looks like a sensor problem plus poor timing.

anything unusual looking with the rear magnet?

does the IGH version have the same rotor assembly that this one that @Dchilder posted?

 

[dynamic]

anything unusual looking with the rear magnet?

does the IGH version have the same rotor assembly that this one that @Dchilder posted?

View attachment 137588

Looks pretty similar to me. LBS said it looked normal.

 

[dynamic]

Ok, so, the forerunner has officially entered the "I really do like it" category. I do not believe the auto-pause issue is garmin's problem (at least, not exclusively). I also suspect that switching the methodology from "when stopped" to 1, 3 or 5 mph will cause it to use an average eliminating the issue *even* with signal drop outs (I will test this while the bike is still broken).

It is *not* coasting related at all either. My ride yesterday had drops frequently while pedaling. So it clearly uses the speed sensor "exclusively" when present for auto-pause. (and frankly, it makes sense to do so when the sensor is reliable. multi-sensor auto-pause should only be valuable if some/all of the sensors are not reliable).

The thing that really amazes me is the watch is doing a really good job reflecting how my body feels in its metrics. Whatever bio stuff it is tracking seems to be directly correlated. And that is generally true of the individual metrics like sleep, heart rate/hrv and stress as well as the combination metrics like body battery and training readiness.

I don't particularly care for it as a "smart watch". A lot of that is losing apple ecosystem stuff. I use things like Apple TV control, HomeKit, Apple Pay, Reminders (among other things) and various siri/quick react functions *a lot*. It's not going to bring that stuff to my wrist. What it *does* do is shows all the notifications. So, as long as the phone is nearby, you use the phone to do the stuff.

Battery life: I haven't run it down yet. But, I am using 20% in a day (I will track this a bit more methodically). That is not good based on the claims. I don't have pulse-ox on at all (demand only). And my rides are less than an hour of full GPS time. It does charge very quickly though. So plugging it in for 20 minutes while at my desk brings it back to 100%. And it's definitely daytime activity. It used 1% overnight. Kind of wish I bought the solar version this time. At least in the summer it would compensate for some of the battery deficiency.

The size: It doesn't much matter except when sleeping. I am really struggling to sleep with it comfortably. Basically, whatever position I am in, it seems to have the band pulled too tight or the watch digging into my wrist. Not great. I would love to see a more app dependent, smaller, screenless version of this device.

It's honestly a refreshing device after the low bar set by the 1040. I will even try navigation on it. If it isn't a victim of the off-course bug(s), it honestly might be acceptable for that. I usually just need a reminder of when to turn for my intended cycle length. Of course, it still won't understand my bike paths here. But routes on the back roads that avoid the path might work just fine.

Hopefully I will hear from the LBS soon about the speed sensor. In the meantime I am just going to keep riding.

 

[dynamic]

Sql labs grips and inner bar ends are on the bike. I did an initial calibration but didn't have time for a ride. The brake bolt and inner bar end bolts interfere with each other at the proper angles. so it is tough to get things torqued down. Micro adjusting them is going to be annoying. Also, the controller thing didn't seem to respond to tightening/loosening. I ended up just twist sliding it.

A quick ride down the street and back feels a bit awkward. It's a very different position. And, while I can reach the brakes on the inner bar end, it does not "inspire security" the way having my fingers on the brakes with the regular grips. The grips themselves feel really good.

Tomorrow is supposed to be gorgeous! I will take my tools on the ride and adjust as I go. If I can, i will do a long ride that involves all types of road.

Today's ride was great. It was just warm enough to ditch the jacket. The garmin watch still had pause issues even with auto pause set differently. So, will see what specialized does.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

91 new kilometres with so many things you do not trust Derrek. They work for me, especially Innerbarends. I was criticizing them initially too!

 

[dynamic]

91 new kilometres with so many things you do not trust Derrek. They work for me, especially Innerbarends. I was criticizing them initially too!

They are just odd. It’s like trying to drive holding just the inner spokes of a steering wheel. You can do it, but it doesn’t feel natural.

Tomorrow should be a big day for biking comfort!

I still haven’t figured out how to get my bike to the bike fitter. Need to think about it as it is only a few weeks away.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I just meant you should give the Innerbarends a chance, and tune their angle as tricky as the process is. My first impression with IBEs was scary. Now I spend 99% of my riding time in them including rough terrain ride. If you look at gravel cyclists, they mostly use the "hoods" of their drop bars, use firm narrow saddles and ride for hundreds of miles on a race! I managed to appreciate the experience I got from the gravel cycling.

Besides, now I have an O-Synce remote and can enjoy a kind of MicroTune you have on your Vado as a standard feature!

 

[dynamic]

I just meant you should give the Innerbarends a chance, and tune their angle as tricky the process is. My first impression with IBEs was scary. Now I spend 99% of my riding time in them including rough terrain ride. If you look at gravel cyclists, they mostly use the "hoods" of their drop bars, use firm narrow saddles and ride for hundreds of miles on a race! I managed to appreciate the experience I got from the gravel cycling.

They will get their chance. Tomorrow hopefully a long distance beautiful afternoon ride covering the full spectrum of surfaces. After that I will tune and try again.

Hopefully, I also solved my speed sensor issue. Will test and report tomorrow as well.

 

[dynamic]

Rough day. Forgot my helmet 4.5 miles out. Turned around to get it. Got it. Went back out for my standard loop, got a flat. Also, realized the respiro athletic saddle has a crack in it. Luckily was a bit over a half mile from the LBS, walked there and got the flat fixed, missed kid pickup (wife had to go). Speed sensor was *way worse* today. Specialized is sending a completely different speed sensor design to "fix" it. Gonna put the rivo sport back on the bike in case the respiro is a safety issue.

Inner bar ends short version: Not good for steep uphill, steep downhill or rough roads. The position is exceptional on pavement or smaller hills. I don't get numbness, but uphill, there is not enough weight on the bars which makes it feel insecure. Steep downhill there is too much. Rough + downhill is horrible. Steep downhill + moderate to hard breaking is fairly uncomfortable.

The problem is my weight is put on the spot between first finger and thumb as well as part of the hand. This is *really good* for any normal situations. But rough roads don't create numbness, they create pain. Just, straight up pain. But, at no point, did my hands get "numb" while using these. However, even the bike trail was "too rough" to be comfortable. So I switched back and forth a lot. The bike trail is a fraction of the roughness I am typically exposed to on the back roads. Assuming I don't have another terrible day, I will be running a back roads route another day.

Rougher stuff needs me to shift the weight more toward the part of the hand that is touching the grip rather than the section between thumb and first finger. Will try actively changing things.

Side note: the grips themselves may be better than the gp5. Hard to say because I was moving around enough that the moving may be responsible for lack of numbness. But I will explore that.

Anyway, trying again.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Inner bar ends short version: Not good for [...] or rough roads.

Disagree. I have ridden in extremely rough terrain with professional gravel racers, and all my ride was in Innebarends. If these people can ride in the hoods of their drop bars in the mountains and in the rough terrain, the IB are more than adequate. You seem not to be willing to try and get used to.

Steep downhill there is too much.

Have you thought of moving your butt far backwards; or even stand on the pedals, move your posterior above the rear wheel and assume almost horizontal riding position? It is the basic MTB skill... Downhill requires loading the rear wheel. On the climb, you need to load the front wheel. Move your body forward on the saddle and put your body weight on the bars. Basic MTB skill again.

The problem is my weight is put on the spot between first finger and thumb as well as part of the hand.

When riding in rough terrain, place the outer part of your palm on the grip and relieve the tension on the IB. It seems you are applying the "death grip" on the IB. With your thumb and the index finger relaxed on the IB, you allow for the vertical movements of the bars, allowing for compliance.

 

[dynamic]

Disagree. I have ridden in extremely rough terrain with professional gravel racers, and all my ride was in Innebarends. If these people can ride in the hoods of their drop bars in the mountains and in the rough terrain, the IB are more than adequate. You seem not to be willing to try and get used to.


Have you thought of moving your butt far backwards; or even stand on the pedals, move your posterior above the rear wheel and assume almost horizontal riding position? It is the basic MTB skill... Downhill requires loading the rear wheel. On the climb, you need to load the front wheel. Move your body forward on the saddle and put your body weight on the bars. Basic MTB skill again.

When riding in rough terrain, place the outer part of your palm on the grip and relieve the tension on the IB. It seems you are applying the "death grip" on the IB. With your thumb and the index finger relaxed on the IB, you allow for the vertical movements of the bars, allowing for compliance.

This may all be possible, but remember I am not a mountain biker or a gravel rider. I am just a guy with crappy roads looking for more comfort. All the things you say also naturally work on normal grips (and I do them within reason). If bar ends require me to stand and ride over 60% of my surfaces, they just eliminated themselves from consideration.

Put another way: if this is what riding on the hoods is like, based on my current experience with inner bar ends, I will never buy that style of bike. It’s not for me. It’s nice on simpler surfaces.

FYI: I have only done my moderate routes so far due to the hell of a day yesterday changing the route. I didn’t make it to the all pothole/gravel/dirt back roads. I can’t imagine it getting better on those.

Gonna keep trying the bar ends. But I am not optimistic. Also ordering a kinekt 30 degree stem. (I have chickened out and canceled the order twice).

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Also ordering a kinekt 30 degree stem.

And just think I use the minus 6 deg Redshift stem...

 

[dynamic]

And just think I use the minus 6 deg Redshift stem...

The 30 degree stem is the closest thing kinkekt offers to the default vado stem. The vado is a +20 degrees and only around 65mm in length. A 90mm with +7 would be a huge jump in reach (kinekt). The redshift is +/-6 but they have an 80mm available. By my math, the 100mm with +30 is as close as I can get from kinekt. Kinekt does offer a 100mm + 50 as well for people really looking to raise the bars. Redshift also offers a +30 in 80/100mm which might be the "smallest" jump I can make. I would highly prefer the kinekt system over redshift based on kinekt seat post vs the thudbuster. The kinekt may have advantages 1) they are more active. 2) they are *much more resilient* to weather issues (just need cleaning, while elastomer is effected by cold). 3) Their reputation for vibration reduction seems to be better than redshifts.

Bike fit suggests that I need to get weight off my hands, not add to them. So, I am hesitant to extend the reach causing me to lean further forward. My seat is as far back as it goes using markers on the rails (I could push it back beyond those, but I don't think I gain anything I need in leg position, all I do is increase numbness). I think my legs are actually in a *really good* position now. Nothing ever feels over emphasized or stressed ever. Just tired muscles.

On today's ride I actively distributed my weight between the inner and palm area and used inner bar ends eclusively. Guess what the result was? Numbness. I tried riding on them for the entire ride and after about 30 minutes on "moderate" roads I had to move around to keep my fingers brake friendly. These are not death grips, my fingers are loose and resting on the brake. (you can't really do a death grip on a brake, you will trigger it). This was also a "light" ride in terms of effort, so it wasn't like I wast struggling to keep my core holding the weight.

That said, moving around *is* good. It naturally negates too much pressure in one area. But I wouldn't rely exclusively on inner bar ends in any situation I have experienced thus far. And, honestly, I don't think they are any better *on their own* than properly angled grips.

Also, I swapped back to the rivo sport stock saddle. And with the kinekt, it seems quite good. For a 10 mile ride like today on moderate mixed surfaces, the comfort was more than enough. There are aspects that the rivo did better. It's slightly shorter and narrower in the front and created less rubbing in the crotch *without* an angle. This created a very nice balance between angle and sliding. I may not switch back if longer rides don't represent comfort issues. I am sure I have my saddle position far more dialed in than I did last time I had it on the bike. So, a lot of it could be that.

Finally, one observation, the speed sensor issue seems to happen more frequently when I am *not* using assist. It was triggering almost constantly when I turn the motor off in several scenarios. Garmin let's me overlay these graphs and something like 90% of the speed sensor data drops were while the motor is off. New sensor should be here sometime next week.

 

[GuruUno]

I have used since day one the Kinekt 30-degree suspension stem, I love it (on the Vado 5, as well as the previous Vado 5) along with the Kinekt XR seat post.
I'm going to order the 50-degree stem today to try out.
I recently had a bunch of clicking while pedaling, did a bunch of investigations, and came to find out it was the Kinekt seat post.
The company sent me a bushing rebuild kit, I've done the repair and will reinstall the post soon.
The only reason I've not reinstalled the Kinekt is that I still had a RedShift post which I have been using while the Kineklt was removed and I'm experimenting again.
I had to use a seat post shim for the RedShift Seatpost as they only make one diameter.
I do agree that the Kinekt post is more active.
Fun.
Oh, not to deviate from this thread's 24 pages of good dialog, I'll follow up in another thread with the latest on the Como fork saga.....very interesting events.

 

[dynamic]

I have used since day one the Kinekt 30-degree suspension stem, I love it

Well, you tipped me over the edge. Ordered. I assume I just need a new cap to cover the steerer tube hole?

I'm going to order the 50-degree stem today to try out.

Definitely report back on it! I was torn on which to do. But ultimately, I don't *want* to be super upright, I want to be casually athletic *and still comfortable*.

came to find out it was the Kinekt seat post.

My brand new one does this only when "topping out". I have it adjusted that it almost never happens. I assume your clicking is actually coming from the bushings?

with the latest on the Como fork saga.....very interesting events.

No such thing as "off topic" on this thread. It's an experience thread, and it doesn't have to be *just mine*. Though for big things, it probably does make sense to keep them centralized with summary/links in the related threads.

I hope my speed sensor doesn't become one of these issues.

 

[GuruUno]

I assume I just need a new cap to cover the steerer tube hole?-Yes
I assume your clicking is actually coming from the bushings?-I wont know until I put it back, let you know...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Derrek, let me tell you what. As long I was riding in more upright position, I suffered numb hands. I'm riding in a low athletic position now, and all the hand numbness and other numerous issues are gone. It took me 3 years to realize that. You cannot realize it in two months of hectic experiments.