Evo 29er: the hunt for a second wheelset and/or new rims

[Joergen8]

I've been trying to source spare matching rims for my Evo 29er, in case I needed them in the future, and was also planning to build another wheelset with a wider rim than the original 18c internal diameter, including buying a complete new rear wheel with motor (which turned out to be more difficult than it should be, and I wasn't able to buy one at all).

I don't know if BH has any support plan for their bikes what comes to their OEM rims (Alex Rims) through their dealer shops, ie what happens if your OEM rim needs to be replaced, do you end up with mismatching wheels sourced from the open market, or does BH supply matching OEM rims to dealers. But from what I've found, the Alex DM18 in anodized black and 622/700c, 36h is surprisingly hard to come by, but the same size in CSW (machined) sidewalls is widely available. I could try painting the sidewalls, but paint doesn't stick too well to aluminium, which is why the originals are anodized, not painted.

The bespoke spokes on a hub-motor are not easy to come by, so if your spokes are still in good order, you could just get another rim with the same Effective Rim Diameter (ERD) for both wheels.

For a wider rim, I looked at the DM24 from Alex Rims, which is available in all black from the good folks at Grin Technologies, but it has a slightly shorter ERD than the DM18. The original DM18 ERD is 607, and the DM24 is 605, which makes the original spokes on the hub-motor wheel 1mm too long. I asked a couple wheel builders and they said this could be a problem as the threads on the spokes might not be deep enough to tighten. Though the experts at Grin suggested the 1mm might not be an issue. I guess I'll have to find out.

http://www.ebikes.ca

Also, the Shimano M758 15mm thru axle hub in 36h, that came with the original front wheel on my 29er, is no longer manufactured and is hard to come by. There are alternatives, like the Hope Pro 2 Evo, but not many. I was still able to source the Shimano hub, as I'd like both front hubs to be the same and/or have a replacement at hand should I need it.

edit: Just received word from Alex Rims European office, that the DM24 in 622 is not available in Europe for aftermarket / end consumer. Which is too bad, since it's available in all other sizes.

 

[J.R.]

Nice work, very helpful!

Made to order spokes are available from many wheel builders. Most custom wheel builders you need to talk to either on the phone or in person, electronic communication with custom wheel builders may not get you the information you want. In addition to talking to them, put all the information in writing and send that along with your order.

I did see this:

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...rder-e-bike-rim-spokes/937734_1420005619.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...c-bike-spoke-45-steel/937734_32214992346.html

Supposed to be made to order. As for the quality and "steel" used, is anyone's guess. It would be a try it and see proposition, price is almost too good to be true.

I would like to have spare spokes and nipples on hand, as I've broken ebike spokes in winter riding on heavily rutted ice-packed trails. Nothing worse than breaking a couple of spokes and having to wait a couple of weeks for replacements. Likely I'll ride my x3 on the ice this winter and keep the 29er for the better weather. That's the plan since I already have the 26" studded tires for the x3 and I can get spokes for it in a couple of days from the factory in Florida. On that note. have you tried to order just the spokes from BH? I'm hoping my dealer stocks them.

Good luck with your quest and thanks very much for keeping us up to date on all this!

 

[Joergen8]

Those spokes seem ok superficially, though hopefully they arent just "steel" but stainless as one would expect. I've had no spokes snap on my bike after 3500km of riding, and I've done some rough trails too, even had a couple pinch flats and took a spill once, so experience seems to vary with the OEM spokes, which are 2.3mm on the rear and 2mm on the front.

Electric Cyclery seems to have the most comprehensive list of BH OEM parts, but even their list is incomplete. They list spokes and nipples, but no mention on length, just wheel size, which probably assumes you are still using the OEM DM18 rim with 607 ERD.

http://www.electriccyclery.com

The Easy Motion After Sales Manual has disappeared from the web after being left accidentally up at
http://www.emotionbikesusa.com/docs/Easy Motion - After sale manual.pdf for a few weeks. I didn't save the manual, just looked at it and thought it was a comprehensive list of parts. And of course at that time I still thought all the parts listed were but a phone call away. They still might be, but I'm sensing a trend where we will have to become self-sufficient with these things, if it's this difficult to get OEM parts even while the bike is within warranty. Later on it will be nigh impossible.

The forums at http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2192653 have been a treasure trove of information, but scouring the hundreds of posts for relative information has been slow, and I'll try to condense my experiences for people to read here.

 

[Joergen8]

Update on rims: I've decided to go with the Velocity Blunt 35, which has a 29mm internal diameter compared to the 16mm for the OEM Alex DM18. The blunt 35 is one of the few 29er 622 / 700c rims available at over 25mm and in a 36 hole config. Earlier I already bought one new Shimano M758 15mm thru axle hub in 36h, but since that hub is nigh impossible to find, I now went for the new Hope Pro Evo 4 hub available from Jan 2016. The spokes for the front wheel will be 2,0mm (14g) Sapim strong black. I'll list the spoke lengths and nipple lengths once I receive the first completed front wheel. The wheel will be built by Komponentix in Berlin, Germany. You can get custom wheels straight from Velocity Wheels USA as well.

The Blunt 35 will give better support for the sidewalls of a 2,25-2,4" tire, with less "squirm" at lower pressure. With the DM18 you sometimes feel like the tire is curling or buckling under you in turns, squirming / sponging. According to some slightly outdated tire and rim size charts online, the OEM DM18 doesn't even meet the requirement for the Rapid Rob 2,25" (57mm) tires BH included with my bike. http://www.schwalbe.com/en/reifenmasse.html Though I suppose it's fine to get cheapo $15 rims with a $3000 bike, the extra $300-350 cost of having new wheels built with wider rims is something to consider when buying BH MTB models.

The rear hub motor wheel will have to be rebuilt too, since I wasn't able to buy a new spare hub motor due to the lack of communication / interest by the dealers and BH. I'll have to document the original lacing to make sure it gets re-laced correctly. I'll have to get new spokes too, since the ERD on the Blunt 35 is 596 (607 for DM18). I'll let a friend of mine take a shot at lacing the rear wheel, as the local bike shops have shown little interest in lacing a hub motor.

PS. I do actually have a local BH dealer just 6km away from my house, but I haven't set foot in their shop after I was told the mandatory (warranty terms) first tune up for my bike would cost 90 eur. I don't know if that's standard policy, but I've gotten the first tune up free for bikes a tenth the price of the Evo.

 

[pxpaulx]

I'm definitely interested in how the rims turn out - I've got the evo snow 29er and would like a non-motorized wheel up front for sunny days, this looks like a great option.

 

[Joergen8]

Here's the front wheel fresh from the builder. I ordered a spare rim too, now to find someone to rebuild the rear hub motor into the Blunt 35.

Rim Velocity Blunt 35 made in USA, spokes Sapim Strong made in Belgium, hub Hope Pro 4 15mm made in UK, with sealed cartridge bearings made by INA in Germany. Built in Germany.

I'm impressed by the Hope Pro 4 hub, and how easy it is to service!

 

[Joergen8]

Out for a test ride with the new Blunt 35 front wheel. I really like the rim so far, it lets me reduce air pressure from 1.5 bar (21psi) to 1.2 (17) easily, since the wider rim has more air volume in the tube and tire. I also swapped the Maxle Lite for a Maxle Stealth, which works with the XC 32 fork of course (no mention of it in RockShox specs).

Still need to find someone who could build the rear wheel into the Blunt 35.

------------

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cn5fnk3q4iqfpz5/photo 12.4.2016 18.26.46.jpg?dl=1

Here's a closer shot, with the Maxle Stealth in view. The Blunt 35 isn't perhaps the prettiest rim, and I kind of prefer the flatter chamfered look of an old cheapo rim brake rim with machined 90 deg walls, but it has come time to let go of obsolete tech. A rounded rim profile is the sturdiest and lightest form for a wider rim.

 

[pxpaulx]

your image links are broken - I'd love to see them!

 

[Joergen8]

your image links are broken - I'd love to see them!

Hmm. They are on Dropbox. I tried with a couple browsers and a proxy service and they work for me, I'll try another service.

Here are the direct links:

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

 

[Lenny]

Here's the front wheel fresh from the builder. I ordered a spare rim too, now to find someone to rebuild the rear hub motor into the Blunt 35.

Rim Velocity Blunt 35 made in USA, spokes Sapim Strong made in Belgium, hub Hope Pro 4 15mm made in UK, with sealed cartridge bearings made by INA in Germany. Built in Germany.

I'm impressed by the Hope Pro 4 hub, and how easy it is to service!

We'll ship you a EVO 29er rear wheel from our store, if you're interested.

I'm happy to help you with this.

 

[Joergen8]

We'll ship you a EVO 29er rear wheel from our store, if you're interested.

I'm happy to help you with this.

Amazing! Thank you for taking the time to reach out.

The motor on my 2015 Evo 29er is the Dapu M155 CN3614 type with the cable coming out on the disc brake side on the inner side of the dropout. Other than that, I think any similar 350W 36V motor from BH should do, as long as it doesn't have "(E)" at the end, designating Europe (possibly). To reduce shipping cost, you could dismantle the wheel and send just the motor. I could also buy the Winter battery cover if you have any in stock.

Edit: I just read about the fire! I'm not looking for a "deal", so I'll gladly pay full price to help you out too.

 

[Jack Tyler]

@Joergen8 your research abilities and thoroughness are really impressive. Super glad Lenny might be able to address the one missing piece for you. Beautiful wheel!

 

[Lenny]

Amazing! Thank you for taking the time to reach out.

The motor on my 2015 Evo 29er is the Dapu M155 CN3614 type with the cable coming out on the disc brake side on the inner side of the dropout. Other than that, I think any similar 350W 36V motor from BH should do, as long as it doesn't have "(E)" at the end, designating Europe (possibly). To reduce shipping cost, you could dismantle the wheel and send just the motor. I could also buy the Winter battery cover if you have any in stock.

Edit: I just read about the fire! I'm not looking for a "deal", so I'll gladly pay full price to help you out too.

Thank you.
I understand your concern. It's the main store that caught fire.
None of the bikes in our warehouse had any smoke damage.

We still have about 8-9 brand new EVO 29er's. I will make sure it's the U.S spec'd but I can't promise that the motor will be de-laced as that would be additional time for my techs who are already loaded with quite a lot of work.
We will make sure it's Dapu M155 CN 3614 and ship you a brand new rear wheel in a box.

Please send me an email me your address and other details --> [email protected]

 

[Joergen8]

Thanks again! I've contacted you with my details.

BTW this historical moment is the first recorded incident online of an international BH US wheel purchase actually happening. I've personally contacted the other two people online in international forums claiming to have purchased a US wheel, but they've never replied with any proof of having done so.

Edit: The US wheel has a model number beginning with CN 3611, while the EU motor is CN 3614. The 36 is obviously the optimal voltage, but the second number is a mystery, other than the ratio being the same as the rated speeds, where 25km/h is 78% of 32km/h, and 11 is 78% of 14, or 1:1.28. So maybe the reduction?

Just guessing until I get my dirty mitts on the motor.

 

[EvoPaul]

I hope the new wheel works out for you Joergen8. I also have a Euro 29er, and will look forward to your feedback when you get to test the US wheel.

I have a question that you probably can help with. I mostly ride on roads, and should probably put on some road (tour) tires. I hear that you put on Big Apple. But what size do you use? 28 x 2.00 or 28 x 2.15 or 28 x 2.35? Will they all fit, and what is the difference?

 

[Joergen8]

Thanks. I'm curious to see if some of the torque is compromised by the possibly lower reduction in the motor. A compromise for achieving higher speeds. Which would be fine, since I was planning on using the faster motor for summer and the slower for winter.

They all fit, but the OEM Alex DM18 is a tad narrow to get the full benefit from a 2.25-2.35 tire. I run Big Apple 2.35, since I want the largest air volume for a comfier ride. If the pressure gets too low, a narrow rim can feel spongy in turns. A wider rim allows more air volume and a better support for the tire walls. With the wide tire, you can still do some light offroading, so long as you watch out for slippy roots and rocks.

Rolling resistance means very little at higher speeds, where you're fighting wind resistance. I like the Big Apples because knobbier tires are noisy and cause undesired vibration. I rode the (insanely knobby) ICE Spiker Pro 2.25 all winter (5 months), and now Rapid Rob 2.25 for spring, and soon I'll put on the Big Apples. For a slim rider like me, the tread makes surprisingly little difference, always riding at 70% or 100% assist.

 

[EvoPaul]

Thanks. What do you think about Marathon supreme tires versus the big apples for summer use?

http://www.schwalbe.com/en/tour-reader/marathon-supreme.html

 

[Joergen8]

Not sure I like the tread, seems too slick. I already ride more tentatively with the Big Apples, though at low pressure they can envelop loose grains of gravel or wrap around small objects to find some grip in turns, and are great in wet conditions. 2.00" would mean higher pressures to avoid pinching, and higher pressures mean less contact patch. Add a semi-slick tread and you might end up in a ditch.

Plus for reflective sidewalls.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I actually worked on Joergen's Dapu motor request last week.
Right now, it is on it's way to Finland.
Hope it works for you. I am looking forward to your report.

We took out a wheel from a brand new bike and re-packed it.

 

[Joergen8]

Awesome! Thanks Ravi and Lenny!

edit: just got notification that it has arrived, and I did the online customs clearance.
Paid an extra $212 in 5% duty and 24% VAT. Shipping was $98 using USPS.

edit: Shipping was apparently only $70.