eMTB Options For 2024
- Thread starter Browneye
- Start date
Do you mean wide (800 mm) or thick (35 mm vs 31.8 ? )
IMHO both are marketing BS , at least at the level mere humans ride.
Wider bars give more leverage, so for someone dropping off cliffs or doing redbull videos bigger is better. For mere humans , we need to compromise between agility and power , with a bit of consideration for gaps between trees..... There's also the not too minor consideration of old shoulders - many of us are at the age where reaching out causes impingement issues and shoulder pain / tendon injuries. 780 mm seems to be a sweet spot for me, but my shoulders are very wide. My kids seem to prefer between 760 and 780 mm.
Thicker bars is very much a recent trend, and if you read between the lines it might be a silly one. Again, it started with the redbullshitters - dropping off cliffs, clearly they needed stronger bars? Bigger is better....but they started noticing less flex / harsher feedback. The more expensive thick bars brag about custom tapers providing more vibration reduction / flex. Full circle. It takes a lot to bend a decent set of 31.8 bars, and the only snapped ones I've seen were carbon fibre ( that's a whole new marketing bs discussion)
And now we start talking about super long travel......
The analog giant trance was a sweet spot bike - a dual suspension bike with just enough travel to suck up mere mortal obstacles, and almost enough for silly stuff. It pedalled well because it didn't have too much power sapping suspension, and was FUN. It had 130-140 mm travel. I think it got even shorter in the back last year (110? )
The marketing dept wants us to go for long travel large diameter monster trucks, and they are definitely fast / forgiving. But you lose some of the playfulness and definitely lose pedalling efficiency. They're also harder to pump on trails - all that suspension sucks up momentum.
My daughters scott 940 has a magical button that switches it between a 150 travel and 110 bike - It's MUCH more lively at 110 , almost as easy to pedal as my emtb in eco , and much easier to bounce off ruts / berms. But down hill, especially through rocks - 150 mm is soooo forgiving.
Somewhere between 130-150 mm seems right for most of MY trail riding . I've riddenna merida 120 and it was too harsh, all the 180 mm down hill bikes wallow too much for me. It's nice to dream of an ultralight long travel magic carpet , but don't get sucked in by the marketing
The analog giant trance was a sweet spot bike - a dual suspension bike with just enough travel to suck up mere mortal obstacles, and almost enough for silly stuff. It pedalled well because it didn't have too much power sapping suspension, and was FUN. It had 130-140 mm travel. I think it got even shorter in the back last year (110? )
The marketing dept wants us to go for long travel large diameter monster trucks, and they are definitely fast / forgiving. But you lose some of the playfulness and definitely lose pedalling efficiency. They're also harder to pump on trails - all that suspension sucks up momentum.
My daughters scott 940 has a magical button that switches it between a 150 travel and 110 bike - It's MUCH more lively at 110 , almost as easy to pedal as my emtb in eco , and much easier to bounce off ruts / berms. But down hill, especially through rocks - 150 mm is soooo forgiving.
Somewhere between 130-150 mm seems right for most of MY trail riding . I've riddenna merida 120 and it was too harsh, all the 180 mm down hill bikes wallow too much for me. It's nice to dream of an ultralight long travel magic carpet , but don't get sucked in by the marketing
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Browneye
Well-Known Member
800 to 780mm wide bars is about a quarter inch off each end. Just moving your hands in or out on the grips will give you that. 
One thing I did do is dremel off the end of my up-shifter lever as it was digging into my thumb when gripped hard. So I've move the whole shifter in a bit, and then rounded over the end of that shift lever for much better clearance.
Does anyone have any commends on grips for mtb? I'm not really unhappy with the giant grips, but the RaceFace ones sure look cooler. Sometimes I think too squishy makes a strong grip more difficult.
One thing I did do is dremel off the end of my up-shifter lever as it was digging into my thumb when gripped hard. So I've move the whole shifter in a bit, and then rounded over the end of that shift lever for much better clearance.
Does anyone have any commends on grips for mtb? I'm not really unhappy with the giant grips, but the RaceFace ones sure look cooler. Sometimes I think too squishy makes a strong grip more difficult.
jabberwocky
Well-Known Member
For grips, I’ve done ODI rogues for many, many years. Every time I get a new bike I try something different, use them a few rides, then get rid of them and get a set of rogues.
FlatSix911
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Silicon Valley
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![ODI_Rogue_lockon_ohne[640x480].jpg](https://images.internetstores.de/products//ODI_Rogue_lockon_ohne[640x480].jpg)
bob armani
Well-Known Member
I have not considered swapping out grips too often; usually stayed with the stock ones till they wore out, then went for a decent pair from my LBS. I do like the looks and styling of the ODI grips referenced above. Right now, my stock grips feel just about perfect for me.
Why are so many of the eBikes available (like Haibike) 250 watts? Seems like a stronger motor would appeal to a wider base. Just asking.
byunbee
Well-Known Member
Typically all well establish brands (R&M, Haibike, Bulls, Giant, Trek) offer motors that reach 28mph at a higher spec. They typically used motors from Bosch, Brose, Yamaha, which can all easily reach those speeds. Also, most people don't need to go faster than 28mph on roads, and on mountain trails it's not safe to go faster than 20mph, so almost all eMTBs have 20 mph limiter. There are other factors like more stress on the motors with higher output, so the manufacturers I'm sure have reliability in mind.
That's the simple explanation. There are others on this forum that kind write pages on the reasons why.
So then the question becomes how long can a 250w motor maintain a 20mph speed with pedal assist?
TMH
Well-Known Member
A 250 watt motor does not normally peak at 250 watts, but that is its base/continuous rating. Most Bosch, Brose, etc. mid drive motors are actually something like 250/500, 250/520 or 250/600 watts. There are also, and many times more importantly, differences in the torque put out by these motors, so you cannot judge a motor's utility just by its 250 watt rating. E-bikes are classified as electric bicycles (especially in places like Europe with stricter regulations) based on their continuous rating, and above 250 watts they start getting into electric moped type regulations. It is why we see so many 250 watt bikes.
This is combined with the fact that on bikes with mid-drive motors the power of the motor is an amplification of your leg power, and it benefits (just like you do) by utilizing the bike's gearing. Look at the charts for something like a Brose motor, where it can contribute 400% to the amount of power that you are putting into the system. This is more than plenty!!!
Where higher motor wattage (and torque and voltage and current flow, etc.) are more important are on hub motor bikes, which cannot benefit from the gearing of the bicycle.
This is combined with the fact that on bikes with mid-drive motors the power of the motor is an amplification of your leg power, and it benefits (just like you do) by utilizing the bike's gearing. Look at the charts for something like a Brose motor, where it can contribute 400% to the amount of power that you are putting into the system. This is more than plenty!!!
Where higher motor wattage (and torque and voltage and current flow, etc.) are more important are on hub motor bikes, which cannot benefit from the gearing of the bicycle.
250 whatever is a mystical calculation where 2 motors with identical revs yet 30% differences in torque can magically claim to slip under the legal 250 w limit the rest of the world has for ebikes to be considered bikes.
I've ridden "1500 w" motors that feel weak compared to my "250 w " giant ( yamaha pwx )
ignore the numbers, ride the bike and decide what you want
Stefan Mikes
Gravel e-biker
- Region
- Europe
- City
- Mazovia, PL
The 250 W nominal (continuous rated power) is the result of the European regulation and of nothing else. Simply, there are 10 times e-bikes more in Europe than in North America. Regarding your question "how long" the answer is "as long as there is juice in the battery". It is very easy to maintain 20 mph on an e-bike. It is hard to maintain > 25 mph on a Class 3 250 W e-bike.
Thanks to all contributing. It is very confusing when trying to gauge the power rateiings of bikes.
Browneye
Well-Known Member
Yeah, you really need to ride them. EMTB's aren't about how fast you can go, more of a 'can I make it over the trail'.
It's very fun and challenging all at the same time.
Pedaling up a steep dirt hill in 2nd gear is nearly as fun as 28mph on a downhill rolling trail!
Off-road is a completely different experience than road or bike path.
25 miles feels like a LONG way, and 20mph feels very fast when you're dodging ruts and rocks and trees.
It's very fun and challenging all at the same time.
Pedaling up a steep dirt hill in 2nd gear is nearly as fun as 28mph on a downhill rolling trail!
Off-road is a completely different experience than road or bike path.
25 miles feels like a LONG way, and 20mph feels very fast when you're dodging ruts and rocks and trees.
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Thanks Browneye. I feel like I'm getting somewhere. Thanks to everyone BTW for all the advice and input. So take that 250w MTB on a bike ride with the Ride1Up 750w that I bought my wife and tell me what that looks like regarding range. I'm 6'0 tall about 210lbs not too much incline where we would ride together. The MTB would be with friends who do mild trails.Yeah, you really need to ride them. EMTB's aren't about how fast you can go, more of a 'can I make it over the trail. It's very fun and challenging all at the same time.
Pedaling up a steep dirt hill in 2nd gear is nearly as fun as 28mph on a downhill rolling trail!
Off-road is a completely different experience that road or bike path.
25 miles feels like a LONG way, and 20mph feels very fast when you're dodging ruts and rocks and trees.
Thanks Stefan. That is the main thing keeping me from choosing a bike. I am drawn to the Dost Kope because of dual battery but not sure how rugged it will actually be. Also would like the Frey EX with dual battery but the wait time to receive the bike and shipping cost is discouraging. Thanks for your help.
TomD
Well-Known Member
Don't waste your time with Dost If you actually want a legit mountain bike. It might be a decent comuter for someone with bad knees that just wants cadence sensing but for the most part it's an overhyped bike with very questionable EBR "choice" recommendation from Court. There will be lots of bikes coming out in the near future with dual battery option. I see no reason to purchase from an unproven company that will lijely go out of business If they continue to make poor decisions like their choice of motor for a new bike in 2020.
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