@Browneye ever looked at The Pros Closet for deals on used eMTB's? Or no interest in used? I kinda figured with all the shops you've visited some must have had demos for sale.
eMTB Options For 2024
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Browneye
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I have looked there. Didn't see anything that made me want to break out the credit card.
I have found some leftover stocks at a discount, but no demos. Most of the shops will let you ride one around the parking lot if you're interested, but not loaners to take and really try out. Like YT, and my Giant dealer. So those floor bikes aren't really 'demos', but surely discounted if they're not the very latest and greatest.
I'm always surprised when a retailer holds their msrp. I mean, I get it, but sometimes if you give people a deal, or at least make them think they're getting a deal, then you sell twice as many. My BIL sold cars for his whole life - he always said a car deal was a state of mind. If you THINK it's a good deal then you go for it. Whether it really is or not is another thing. They were pro's at extracting more $$ out of buyers.
The local bike shops around here get this for the most part, and if you're ready to buy they throw something in to 'make the deal', or they have a 'sale' going on.
At the mountain bike shop the sales guy obviously had free reign to discount the Giant Trance or Reign nearly 20% because they had a sale coming up for spring so "you may as well get the deal now". If you want the bike they want to sell it to you. I think there's enough profit is some of these bikes that even at a discount they're still making a nice profit, so win-win. Giant doesn't seem to have a shortage of inventory.
Another dealer had the '19 turbo levo comp for $5300 plus tax. I think that's a sanctioned Specialized sale to blow them out. The dealer gets a discount on the wholesale price and passes it along as a 'sale'.
To be honest, I'm having so much fun with this, I enjoy learning about all the options. Keep the suggestions coming - not just for me but for anyone viewing. It's a great resource. Lot's of experienced riders pitching in and that makes it really valuable.
Sam has sold his shop, so he's blowing out the last of inventory, my assumption is to take as much $$ as he can, then sells the rest with the store at the time the business sale closes, probably at so much on the dollar, whatever is left. He's surely not buying any more bikes.
I also assume the new owner, Mike from next door at the Giant dealer, will honor whatever warranties. They are keeping the store and keeping it e-bikes, even bringing over the Giant ebikes they have to that store. The original and larger store stay pedal bikes. They probably have 50 bikes in stock and 8 are ebikes. While Sam's ebike store is ALL ebikes, probly 30 of them.
He had a Surface '504' or something, that a customer had bought from a competitor just down the street. The guy bought it for his wife and she didn't like it, but they wouldn't take it back or help him so he traded it in. I assume they were selling it at the trade-in price - $1500 for a $2500 bike with zero miles on it. He has two Aventon step-thru's, I may buy one for the wife while we figure out what's wrong with her hub conversion.
Sam has a handful of Haibikes, a couple of Bulls - the one new one with the mag motor and 750w batt with Fox, even still has the BESV with the integrated 800w battery, and a Magnum that looks pretty good.
For $5000 OTD the Bulls is the deal to be had there - it's beautiful, high watt battery, and all the good stuff, brose mag s, fox, the whole shebang.
I don't care for the older bosch drive with the little idler gear. All his Haibikes have them except the two Yamaha drive All Mountains. Seems everybody complained about those little gears and now they've done away with it on the 2020 models, and same for Trek and their bosch cx - no more tiny primary chain ring. Now they all look like Yamaha's, go figure.
I still like the Trance E+1 the best. Besides, its green. Makes you feel all fuzzy inside. LOL
The matt-tan Turbo Levo Comp is second, and the YT third. The levo is the highest $$, nearly six grand. The carbon Levo is closer to 8. I think they had a '19 for under seven grand though. Our tax is 8% so adds quite a bit as they get higher in price. It's funny, the higher the price gets the more I start to tune them out. Some of these bikes are just insanely expensive.
I'll call the shop tomorrow and ask them about the '19 Trance E+0 Pro SX - see what kind of deal can be had on one. They can order it in from the DC. I don't see how it will be less than six grand with tax though, but you never know and can't hurt to ask.
I really would like to see and test the Trek Rail5 with the new Gen4 Bosch CX. Another great color too. That's the alloy frame, I think the Rail9 is carbon. It's a great time to be looking for a eMTB!
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LimboJim
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I have to say I'm enjoying this thread, it's been enlightening to me as someone who has purchased several eMTBs since 2015 (and selling my old ones - a few of my "buyers" have actually become riding buddies).
And I am yet another Haibike owner who's deeply saddened by their lack dealer and customer support. I'm keeping mine though, because they are very well designed and built, and I can handle 95% of the maintenance and repairs. As far as the motors go, I'll reach out to Performance Line Bearings if and when I need to. Hopefully batteries will be replaceable for another decade or more.
@Browneye, do you by any chance write for a living?
And I am yet another Haibike owner who's deeply saddened by their lack dealer and customer support. I'm keeping mine though, because they are very well designed and built, and I can handle 95% of the maintenance and repairs. As far as the motors go, I'll reach out to Performance Line Bearings if and when I need to. Hopefully batteries will be replaceable for another decade or more.
@Browneye, do you by any chance write for a living?
Browneye
Well-Known Member
Ha ha… yep.
I am quite confident that I would be happy with the All Mountain - I think it would do everything I want. And it has the PW-X, you really can't miss. Hell, it even has a yari fork.
I have seen that rebuild guy for bearings mentioned before - a great resource.
When we raced dirtbikes those old 2-stroke motors needed a rebuild about every 50 hours, and that was pushing it. The only thing I never learned was disassembling gearboxes. I left that to a guy that knew what he was doing. But everything was top to bottom, rebuilt them from scratch.
All of these bikes have more or less off the shelf components, or can be replaced with such. The proprietary things are all you really have to depend on from the bike manufacturer. Giant is known for making a lot of their own hardware, at least with their brand on them.
I learned to wrench on bikes from the time I was a bout 8. LOL My best friend's dad was the Schwinn dealer in Seattle on Aurora Avenue, by Greenlake, and we would go to work with him Saturdays. We learned how to assemble bikes out of the box, tune the 10 speeds, and tape wrap the bars. Remember the 'orange krate'?? They were selling those new in the shop.
After lunch we would rummage through the parts bins and build bikes out of scratch. Our latest and greatest was a 20" bike with a 24 or 26" fork, like a dirtbike, and we would ride them through the woods on trails and over jumps. Mountain bikes came along some years after. That was mid 1960's and into the 70's. Hmmm...seems we invented the dual sport too - a street licensed dirtbike, before they had even thought of the word.
Why I like ebikes so much - they're revolutionary!
Browneye
Well-Known Member
So, I clicked the 'pro closet' link and look what I found... @PDoz - you watching??
www.theproscloset.com
What's the difference between 18 and 19? $3299.
Looks like it needs a new cassette. At least.
Giant Bikes For Sale - New & Used | The Pro's Closet
Shop certified pre-owned used & new Giant bikes, framesets, including the TCR and Revolt with TPC - The Pro’s Closet. Find reviews, specs, weight info and prices on Giant Road, Gravel, Hardtails & more. Just In: Giant & Liv Demo bikes priced up to $5000 off MSRP! Highly sought after models like...
www.theproscloset.com
What's the difference between 18 and 19? $3299.
Looks like it needs a new cassette. At least.
Stefan Mikes
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- Mazovia, Poland
I wonder if a carbon frame is so fantastic as to justify the high price. Will the bike become really lightweight when aluminium has been replaced with carbon fibre? I doubt. The shock absorbing properties of carbon fibre are well known; yet the bikes we are talking about are already fully suspended. What I'm afraid about is the known fact carbon fibre frames crack, especially in a crash. Is it just a hype about the carbon frames being so exceptional?
So, I clicked the 'pro closet' link and look what I found... @PDoz - you watching??
Giant Bikes For Sale - New & Used | The Pro's Closet
Shop certified pre-owned used & new Giant bikes, framesets, including the TCR and Revolt with TPC - The Pro’s Closet. Find reviews, specs, weight info and prices on Giant Road, Gravel, Hardtails & more. Just In: Giant & Liv Demo bikes priced up to $5000 off MSRP! Highly sought after models like...
What's the difference between 18 and 19? $3299.
Looks like it needs a new cassette. At least.
You'd probably enjoy a full e but be warned - it's worthless secondhand.
The geometry is weird/ old school - relatively short reach, high stem, steep steering and the seat post is sloped back.ie Almost opposite to the trance . Definitely not stable ( although that sx has the longer forks which helps) , these things can be steered around like a 15 year old mountain bike...but trying to keep up with a 14 year old daughter on a scott genius 940 downhill gets interesting......she rolls through things that are terrifying on the full e!!!! It doesn't climb as well as the trance - or at least you need to get out of the seat and over the stem to stop it flipping - see comment re sloping seat post. Go at least one size up on what you normally go - my medium full e wheelbase is shorter than an xs trance!!. I love mine, it's FUN ( although definitely slower than a trance) .FUGLY rainbow can be covered up with tape, and that battery fits your bike and vice versa...a spare battery in a back pack gives you lots of range...
Biggest disadvantage is the motor is mounted rotated forward c/w the trance AND there is a huge gap between the motor and bash plate so much less ground clearance - but it's a $12 bashplate...no big deal...and that lower motor means a lower cog so super flickable. Think xr250 honda...
Ps That cassette is fine - there are black granny gears.
Expensive for a 2 year old emtb - that's getting into 2019 trance e1 pricing and the trance isn't as fugly....but if you intend to keep 2 bikes then having interchangeable batteries will be great
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Another attempt at a visual comparison, l to R
2017 norco optic (m)
2018 full e ( m)
2019 scott genius 940(l) - modern longer lower raked out magic...
2004??? giant trance ( m) super old school flickable fun machine that has been handed down through each if my kids....
2017 norco optic (m)
2018 full e ( m)
2019 scott genius 940(l) - modern longer lower raked out magic...
2004??? giant trance ( m) super old school flickable fun machine that has been handed down through each if my kids....
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Stefan Mikes
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sexy pro ...kinda catchy? Just like an std
Browneye
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They're lighter and cleaner with no welds. The ones I've looked close at in person are just beautiful.
They make more sense to me for a road bike. [shrug]
YT Decoy carbon fiber. Notice the rear triangle on this one is carbon as well, no welds. Their base models have an alloy rear triangle, and they're very nicely done as well.
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FlatSix911
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Interesting photo... can you share your thoughts on the pro and con of various wheel sizes: 26", 27.5" and 29" Thanks!
Stefan Mikes
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Ah. That's the reason companies such as Specialized sell replacement carbon fibre frames for hefty money. The lesson learnedThey're lighter and cleaner with no welds. The ones I've looked close at in person are just beautiful.
They make more sense to me for a road bike. [shrug]
YT Decoy carbon fiber. Notice the rear triangle on this one is carbon as well, no welds. Their base models have an alloy rear triangle, and they're very nicely done as well.
Browneye
Well-Known Member
The more I shop the better the YT Decoy looks. For $4500 you just get a lot of high-end components. And with them not too far of a drive to get to, if it blew up the motor I could easily take it to them on a warranty claim.
PDoz makes some good points in favor of an alloy frame though. I also am a big fan of the yamaha mid-drive.
For about $200 more I can get the 2020 Trance E+1, with Fox suspension. Other than the carbon frame I think they're pretty similar component-wise. No matter what, still a LOT of $$. Twice as much as Lenny's sale bikes.
PDoz makes some good points in favor of an alloy frame though. I also am a big fan of the yamaha mid-drive.
For about $200 more I can get the 2020 Trance E+1, with Fox suspension. Other than the carbon frame I think they're pretty similar component-wise. No matter what, still a LOT of $$. Twice as much as Lenny's sale bikes.
Stefan Mikes
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Caught with the Decoy on hook!
Browneye
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Caught with the Decoy on hook!
And for about $500 more than the Trance Pro I can get the 2019 Turbo Levo Comp.
Stefan Mikes
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Honestly, Chris, you're dreaming about the Decoy. You cannot have them all. Go and get the YT or the thought you could have got it will constantly smoulder inside your mind...
That old trance with 26 x2.2 was a sweet little bike, giant got the geometry just right for the casual rider and mtb riding at the time. It's nimble and lively, rolls reasonably well, and a couple of kg lighter than the norco. When I traded up to the norco it was mostly to get a dropper post, but once I got used to the norco I started tackling things I wouldn't consider on the trance. I'm no hero , but 27.5 and more modern geometry makes the difference between an intermediate run and a black run - stability.
But you can feel the norcos 27.5 wheels / frame flex ever so slightly as you hit rocks etc, it's like riding a spring. Not a problem, but the wheel flex is there and those wheels are a few hundred gm heavier than the 26 giants.
The scotts 29 wheels are even heavier and have even more side flex, but they roll amazingly . For perspective, if my daughter is on the 27.5 norco I need 50% assistance to keep up on hills, yet on the 29 scott I dial up 125 % . The norco is about 1 kg lighter than the scott, shorter travel , thinner wheels - it should leave the scott behind uphill but those wheels make a huge difference.
The scott can be run in either 29 or 27.5 format by flipping a spacer on the. rear linkages. I've offered to put my full e wheels on it but she says rude things and disappears into the distance.
For fun flicking around on easy / intermediate trails you can't beat 26
For fast rolling or crashing through hospital inducing what am I doing here stuff, 29 is great
Compromise jack of all trades, 27.5 it is. Somewhere between 2.35 and 2.6 width is a sweet spot depending on terrain / rider etc.
Luckily all those bikes fit me and I can offer my kids " a ride on the ebike" any time I like - I just carry a shock pump.
