eMTB Options For 2024

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm almost tempted to get one just for the " dynamic" feature - keeping the legal limit but softening the transition. I actually appreciate the speed limit because it gives feedback that I'm punting a bit too hard, but there are times when having the power cut out is dangerous ( approaching gap jumps, for example.....)

In the situations I am riding tarmac I need acceleration to overtake a slow cyclist; there may be cars around. "The wall effect" is dangerous as I can mash up to 28-29 km/h for a while on pedals but the acceleration is dangerously low. Our normal tarmac speeds (on the Vado and Lovelec) are 30-32 km/h when we're riding together with my brother. American people who complain on Class 1 "low speed" are not aware how lucky they are...

 

[Browneye]

Well yeah, there's quite a difference between 25km and 32. I constantly hit the 32 - not so much on the trail, but any open or pavement running it's not very hard.
I put mine back to stock. I didn't like how much the motor wound up either - at 40km/hr it's really buzzing.
It's probly okay, but you REALLY have to be pedaling.

My Saturday ride, I dropped off a step, maybe a little over a foot, hard fork compression - all the way to the bottom. It's setup perfect for my trails. I can't wait to get to the Sierra mountains for some forest trails. We're getting to the season now. I absolutely love the bike.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Browneye, I can't just express how happy I am you managed to convince me to the Trance. Am on an easy ride now but choose offroad wherever I can

 

[Browneye]

Awesome. Thank @PDoz - he's way more experienced with Giant and the yamaha drive than I. I may well have ended up with something else.

Now I'm looking for a pedal mountain bike. I dunno why, I guess I'm just sure I'm going to get locked out of areas in our national forests as they still consider ebikes as 'motorized vehicles' which are not allowed on hiking and biking trails. That may well be changing though, and there are plenty of trails I've been looking up in various regions around the south Sierras that say either 'ebikes allowed' or 'ebikes unknown'. I suspect the latter means unless you're making trouble no one is around to tell you 'no'. Still, would likely get used by trucking up a mountain (shuttle) and then riding down. Wifey can drive the pickup truck.
For example, Kern Plateau in south Sierras, Cannell Meadow trail - 23 miles and 8500' drop! Ebikes allowed. Drops off 10K sherman peak to Lake Isabella.

These two are on my very shortlist...both 29'rs, both mid-line alloy with good suspension and decent shifters. The local bike shops are just out of product to sell, if you can even get in the place. They either have no bikes to sell, or they limit the number of customers in the store so there's a line out the parking lot. Homey don't playdat.

Canyon Neuron AL 7, new for 2020 $2499

And YT Industries Jeffsy 29 Base $2299

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Come on, Chris...

The King:

Men's Stumpjumper EVO Comp Alloy 27.5

Let's get something clear—the Stumpjumper EVO Comp Alloy 27.5 isn't a "normal" trail bike. It's built to get gnarly, and there's no real way around that...

www.specialized.com

and
The Obvious Choice

Trance 3 (2020) | bike | Giant Bicycles US

This is a trail bike that thrives in the most challenging conditions. The frameset is engineered with a lightweight yet super strong and stiff ALUXX SL aluminum frame. It has updated Maestro rear suspension featuring a ...

www.giant-bicycles.com

 

[PDoz]

Browneye, have a good long think about what you are trying to achieve with a regular mtb.

A shuttle assisted downhill bike is very different to an enduro or trail bike! NONE of them will be as plush as your trance .

Take a look at the scott range - their twinloc suspension is amazingly versatile. My daughters genius can be switched between Locked/ 90/150 mm rear travel and different dampening characteristics at the flick of a handlebar lever - it's like riding a trail bike uphill and an enduro down hill. Plus you can swap between 29/27.5 wheels and flip a chip to change the geometry to suit - so tight down hill days use 27.5 , then for fast rocky stuff use 29. I swear that with 29's and in the trail mode it's easier to pedal than my ebike in eco.

I'd also caution against going the full down hill option unless you get a kick out of air time. The bigger, slacker down hill bikes are like riding a wheelbarrow and not a lot of fun

Perhaps hire a few bikes for shuttle days to decide?

 

[Browneye]

Scott Genius 950 - $2999 I could stretch a little...
And no air time. A crash would likely put me in a wheelchair.

What's the difference between the Genius and Spark models?

I've emailed our local dealer for Scott - about 12miles away.

 

[byunbee]

Update on the speed hack...

Yesterday was my 63rd birthday. Yeah, getting old completely sucks. But I took the day off, and rode my mountain bike through a beautiful state park on our coast. Way fun. Since I was down in the area I thought I would stop at the local ebike shop and get a spoke magnet for the speed sensor, for my new wheel set. I should have another cassette and lockring tool arriving any day now. So a quick axle swap I can install road wheels and tires.

BTW, I also tested the CatEye speedo magnet on the Giant/Yamaha sensor and it works fine. So for anyone that wants to carry one for a spare it would likely work in a pinch. I thought I read elsewhere that the magnet was not strong enough and would throw your controller into error and shut down. Seemed to work fine.

Anyway, the magnet for the hub that works with the 2020 version of the speed sensor, is bolted onto the disc mounting. Since I was taking it off anyway, I got to thinking it would mount easily to the crank arm with some industrial foam mounting tape, so I thought I would try the sensor-relo speed hack. And I already had the security torx tool to remove the mounting screw for the speed sensor. Even better, there's a tab under the chainstay making it super easy to zip-tie the sensor in a perfect position for a magnet on the end of the crank. Within just a few minutes it was ready for testing.

For a summation, I would say don't bother. Yes, it keeps pulling as fast as you can pedal. I got up to about 24mph, pedaling as fast as I could. Wow, it buzzes! I just can't see any kind of consistent riding at any speed over about 20 or 21mph. So I suppose if you REALLY needed another mile an hour or two, it might be worth it. Otherwise, I was nonplussed. I'm going to put it back to stock and forget it.

Now if you could get a larger chain ring then it might make a lot more sense.

So here's what the hack looks like, and what to expect if you make the mod:



The hub magnet holder for the new version speed sensor makes for a really easy to attach magnet for the crank arm:



And while I'm at it, a couple of pics of the new trails I got to explore for my birthday.










One of the single-track trails was SUPER steep and rocky. Not wanting to endo on my head, I walked it down the steepest parts. Sure was fun riding the trails though.
The clouds in the distance is the 'marine layer' of fog over the Pacific Ocean, near Newport Beach on the southern California coast.

I have to agree with @Browneye. Unless you have a large chainring, it’s not worth it. I actually was able to reach 28mph+ speed, but oh boy, was I Pedaling my a$$ off. It’s not a sustainable speed, so I also put it back to stock. BTW, the issue would be the same whether you do the hack or get the module.

 

[PDoz]

Scott Genius 950 - $2999 I could stretch a little...
And no air time. A crash would likely put me in a wheelchair.

What's the difference between the Genius and Spark models?

I've emailed our local dealer for Scott - about 12miles away.

spark is trail / x county- think trance that can change to anthem at a flick of the lever
genius is all mountain / trail- think reign that can flick to trance

The 950 is a sweet spot price vs components ( my daughter has a 940 which is slightly better) - once you get below 930 it's carbon frame time.

In oz, scott seem to heavily discount last years model as the new one arrives - even more than giant. So in a couple of months you might see 30% off those prices

ps their frames are about 1/2 size smaller than giant - so L is actually m/l

 

[Browneye]

They seem to be sold out. Everybody tells me to just get a size L in whatever. Slight adjustments, but get the bigger bike. What is weird is all the sizing metrics put me on a M. I'm always in between, but I'm not a smallish guy so maybe a L makes sense. My Explore is a M, and it's great. Trance is a L, would not want it smaller.

I like what I've seen about Scott. Did not realize they were the snow products company I grew up with. I had forgotten they got into bikes.

The Canyon is the only bike I've found that is ready to ship. The industry is in VERY short supply of bikes. YT mentioned them without saying their name when talking about their competition when I visited their showroom. And I went back to check out the Jeffsy - they are due in September. Dayum, pay yer monies and wait for a few months. I had no idea what they were talking about. They're very near in proximity, Carlsbad and San Clemente - they're neighboring sea-coast towns down here. Obviously CA is a hotbed of bicycles. They were leaders in the dirtbike world as well - all the major players are from here, Fox, Yamaha, Shimano, the list goes on. Shimano in Irvine is actually a client of ours. LOL Kawasaki is here, Kia, Hyundai, Isuzu, Suzuki, Honda motosports, and tons of racing and aftermarket. A hotbed.

From what I can tell, NOTHING is being discounted. The demand is far outstripping the supply.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Have you looked at the Marin Bikes, Chris?

 

[FlatSix911]

They seem to be sold out. Everybody tells me to just get a size L in whatever. Slight adjustments, but get the bigger bike. What is weird is all the sizing metrics put me on a M. I'm always in between, but I'm not a smallish guy so maybe a L makes sense. My Explore is a M, and it's great. Trance is a L, would not want it smaller.

I like what I've seen about Scott. Did not realize they were the snow products company I grew up with. I had forgotten they got into bikes.

The Canyon is the only bike I've found that is ready to ship. The industry is in VERY short supply of bikes. YT mentioned them without saying their name when talking about their competition when I visited their showroom. And I went back to check out the Jeffsy - they are due in September. Dayum, pay yer monies, and wait for a few months. I had no idea what they were talking about. They're very near in proximity, Carlsbad and San Clemente - they're neighboring sea-coast towns down here. Obviously CA is a hotbed of bicycles. They were leaders in the dirtbike world as well - all the major players are from here, Fox, Yamaha, Shimano, the list goes on. Shimano in Irvine is actually a client of ours. LOL Kawasaki is here, Kia, Hyundai, Isuzu, Suzuki, Honda motosports, and tons of racing and aftermarket. A hotbed.
From what I can tell, NOTHING is being discounted. The demand is far outstripping the supply.

Chris, I agree with your analysis of the market... just remember the tide will turn in the fall when the new models are available and fewer people are riding.

In the meantime, take a look at Competitive Cyclist for some decent deals on their current inventory. They focus on high-end bikes and custom-built frames.

Back in my roadie days, I found they were the best resource available if you wanted personalized service and they offer a 30-day return policy if the bike does not work for you.

Mountain Bikes & Frames | Competitive Cyclist

Find a wide range of custom and pre-built mountain bikes at Competitivecyclist.com. Choose from downhill to trail bike styles from top brands.

www.competitivecyclist.com

The New Pivot Switchblade | Competitive Cyclist

Shop Pivot’s new Switchblade all-mountain bike. Updated geometry and suspension kinematics enable this MTB to ride over even more trails than before.

www.competitivecyclist.com

 

[PDoz]

They seem to be sold out. Everybody tells me to just get a size L in whatever. Slight adjustments, but get the bigger bike. What is weird is all the sizing metrics put me on a M. I'm always in between, but I'm not a smallish guy so maybe a L makes sense. My Explore is a M, and it's great. Trance is a L, would not want it smaller.

I like what I've seen about Scott. Did not realize they were the snow products company I grew up with. I had forgotten they got into bikes.

The Canyon is the only bike I've found that is ready to ship. The industry is in VERY short supply of bikes. YT mentioned them without saying their name when talking about their competition when I visited their showroom. And I went back to check out the Jeffsy - they are due in September. Dayum, pay yer monies and wait for a few months. I had no idea what they were talking about. They're very near in proximity, Carlsbad and San Clemente - they're neighboring sea-coast towns down here. Obviously CA is a hotbed of bicycles. They were leaders in the dirtbike world as well - all the major players are from here, Fox, Yamaha, Shimano, the list goes on. Shimano in Irvine is actually a client of ours. LOL Kawasaki is here, Kia, Hyundai, Isuzu, Suzuki, Honda motosports, and tons of racing and aftermarket. A hotbed.

From what I can tell, NOTHING is being discounted. The demand is far outstripping the supply.

True, almost everything is going to be awesome for the average Joe - but IMHO , if you're looking for something for days when the etrance isn't good enough you really need to be a bit more selective.

For example, that canyon al 7 looks to have similar geometry to my old (2017) norco optic, and the rest of the spec isn't much better . A perfectly ok bike to ride, but not really any better than your trance with the battery removed for down hill shuttle riding. You're not really achieving much for those $. I suspect yt mentioned them because YT compare very favourably.......My 9 yo is perfectly happy on that norco, but my 15 yo daughter really pushes it's limits ( you can see the poor bike flexing as she tosses it around - fast intermediate down hill riding)

Maybe I'm just a tight arse fussy bztrd , but if I'm sinking $ , I'd want something better than just ok. Wait until the latest and greatest 2021 models hit , and just ride the trance without battery for now?

Or consolidate your relationship with the local giant dealer and buy a trance advanced 29 er , pay for the one with carbon wheels. They punch well above their spec sheet as a playful alternative to your etrance. The carbon wheels make it much more playful , and you're not going to be worried about the relatively short travel rear unless jumping. Giant managed to do something special with the trance 29 er - I guess if they were moving away from firmly held 27.5 beliefs, they had yo justify it? It's a strange bike, favouring playfull and snappy over rough all mountain suicidal rock runs.....sound good?

ps , if you can afford that pivot, ignore me and BUY IT - frkn awesome bike to ride ( I've only had 1 down hill run ....but it was very nice)

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Or consolidate your relationship with the local giant dealer and buy a trance advanced 29 er , pay for the one with carbon wheels.

I told my brother to save up for this m-bike (mechanical):

Trance 29 1-GE (2020) | rower | Giant Bicycles Polska

Ta superuniwersalna maszyna trailowa została stworzona na bazie ramy ALUXX SL, która łączy nasze najnowsze zawieszenie Maestro z progresywną geometrią trailową. Aby zamortyzować każdą nierówność, od wielkich kamieni po ...

www.giant-bicycles.com

but he's got suddenly interested with Vado SL Well, he's been commuting to work for almost a month on the Vado 5.0 and now knows what is really good for him

 

[Browneye]

Yes, good reviews. Nothing for sale. No Giants at all. Found a Reign-2 XL. Too big, too lanky. No bikes at Specialized shops. Trek stores are either remodeling under construction, or limited access to the store - lined out the door. I won't wait an hour to get into a bike shop.

I like the concept of the configurable Scott Genius - had not seen that before. Scott as a brand gets top marks by the pros.

Fathers Day was kind of a bust. Rode 11 miles to the Specialized dealer that also has DiamondBack, Marin, Fuji, and Raleigh.
They were lined out the building waiting to get in. Screw that, rode to our favorite tap room for a beer - "We're closed today".
Rode home for one of my own on tap. Wife was sick over the weekend. Did get a 22mile eMTB ride in Saturday.

All of the shops are slammed...I went back to that same dealer on Monday at lunch and the said they were closed. SINCE WHEN???? I was pissed. They are off my radar. Just keep pissing off your customers, right??

True, almost everything is going to be awesome for the average Joe - but IMHO , if you're looking for something for days when the etrance isn't good enough you really need to be a bit more selective.

For example, that canyon al 7 looks to have similar geometry to my old (2017) norco optic, and the rest of the spec isn't much better . A perfectly ok bike to ride, but not really any better than your trance with the battery removed for down hill shuttle riding. You're not really achieving much for those $. I suspect yt mentioned them because YT compare very favourably.......My 9 yo is perfectly happy on that norco, but my 15 yo daughter really pushes it's limits ( you can see the poor bike flexing as she tosses it around - fast intermediate down hill riding)

Maybe I'm just a tight arse fussy bztrd , but if I'm sinking $ , I'd want something better than just ok. Wait until the latest and greatest 2021 models hit , and just ride the trance without battery for now?

Or consolidate your relationship with the local giant dealer and buy a trance advanced 29 er , pay for the one with carbon wheels. They punch well above their spec sheet as a playful alternative to your etrance. The carbon wheels make it much more playful , and you're not going to be worried about the relatively short travel rear unless jumping. Giant managed to do something special with the trance 29 er - I guess if they were moving away from firmly held 27.5 beliefs, they had yo justify it? It's a strange bike, favouring playfull and snappy over rough all mountain suicidal rock runs.....sound good?

ps , if you can afford that pivot, ignore me and BUY IT - frkn awesome bike to ride ( I've only had 1 down hill run ....but it was very nice)

Which Pivot model? Trail429? Way spendy.
My new riding buddy with a history of dirtbikes, actually WORKS for Honda, rides a Pivot Shuttle. He likes it, but thinks he paid too much. Super nice guy. I'm hoping to hit the mountains with him - we've been riding the same areas for a couple of decades. He trades off riding his ebike with his KTM. LOL

The Trance 29 was on my short list, but sold out for the year. I was going to select an alloy bike for less $$. I'm just not a hardcore rider. The Advanced model is all carbon with carbon wheels - $5200usd. OUCH. The top of the line YT Jeffsy is about the same price. YT is going to have some bikes coming in after summer. I don't understand their other models - Izzo, and Capra. I guess they're more downhill oriented. I don't really understand 'enduro' vs 'trail' or 'all mountain'. Still foreign concepts to me.

Ya ya...easy to spend other people's money.

Thanks for great advice, as always. I'm broadening my horizons a bit as I explore. I would like to keep my target price at three grand or less. We just refi'd the house...will have $$ to burn. LOL

 

[Stefan Mikes]

PDoz will certainly explain all these terms. Here's what Wikipedia has to say about it:

Mountain bike - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My understanding is the Trance E+ is an All-Mountain e-bike. For Specialized, the Levo is All-Mountain (the same class as Trance E+) while Kenevo and Giant Reign E+ are Enduro e-bikes. (I might be wrong).

 

[PDoz]

It's sounding like the timing is wrong - just get in a few gravity days on your etrance without battery and decide if you really need to bother with an oldbike.

A couple of weekends ago I spent the day at a car shuttle assisted park - I was on the full e, sprogette on her genius, a workmate on sprog 3's norco optic and another workmate on her hardtail. There were only 2 very brief moments where I wished I had thought to remove the battery - both involved aspiration exceeding ability - gap jumps that I really shouldn't have tried......The rest of the time I was perfectly happy to just be out there having fun.

Sure, I was about 10% slower than I would be on sprogettes genius - but the full e is soooo much plusher than a conventional bike. Plus I got in an extra run by riding up whilst everyone else was stuffing around car shuttling

Last weekend we were camping and there was a nice gully that made a natural pump track. After about 20 minutes, all the kids accoustics were parked and they were taking turns on my full e. Gave me a chance to play on their bikes.....It was really interesting - the old (09) trance was definitely most fun - light, agile, almost a bmx compared to the genius! Modern long and low geometry is fantastic for tackling silly stuff at silly speeds , but light and tight is fun. The Norco optic was middle ground - I'd rather be on my full e.

Get out and ride your options when it's a buyers market again. Post covid there are going to be heaps of lightly used acoustics second hand. All the recovered covid sufferers with punched out lungs who realise they need an ebike - you might even get a great trade in option ? swap the etrance for a pivot then buy some new whiz bang 2022 ultralight ebike with the $ you would have wasted today? Worse still, you might cop covid and be trying to sell a lightly used acoustic in a few months....

 

[PDoz]

PDoz will certainly express all these terms. Here's what Wikipedia has to say about it:

Mountain bike - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My understanding is the Trance E+ is an All-Mountain e-bike. For Specialized, the Levo is All-Mountain (the same class as Trance E+) while Kenevo and Giant Reign E+ are Enduro e-bikes. (I might be wrong).

Trance is trail, levo is all mountain, reign and kenevo are enduro. I'm not aware of an ebike that is aimed at downhill - what would be the point?

 

[Browneye]

The ones I've ridden feel like a wheelbarrow. Like when you start off on the e and forget to turn it on. LOL
I doubt I would want to pedal one much.

Going to wait a bit...

 

[PDoz]

The ones I've ridden feel like a wheelbarrow. Like when you start off on the e and forget to turn it on. LOL
I doubt I would want to pedal one much.

Going to wait a bit...

Set up properly, they should feel lively and more fun. The challenge is finding that sweet spot between a light enough, well enough suspended bike that does what you want at a price you can justify. Normally, I'd suggest hiring for the shuttle days and enjoying the ebike the rest of the time, then perhaps if you fall in love with a bike / category invest.

You originally identified 2 competing needs - x country touring so light and efficient to pedal. Vs down hill , which is strong heavy long travel. Even the best compromise across these ( scott genius) isn't going to be a lit better than your trance down hill, and it's never going to natch the Etrance x country - at least until the law catches up....

Having said that, the genius is very mych like a better suspended lighter etrance in eco - it's just not worth the $ having both