Easy way to tell if controller built into hub motor?

[mscir]

My 2015 iZip Dash E3 motor stopped working, and now has resistance when the wheel is rotated, I think a magnet delaminated. The motor is a TranzX M19 48V 500W hub drive. Is there a way to tell if a controller is built into the motor with a multimeter? I am considering opening it up to see what happened, but AliBaba has inexpensive hubs that might work.

Also is using a higher W rated motor a bad practice? The controller ran the 500W motor fine and it was really zippy, is it a bad idea to put in a 750W or 1000W motor if I can get the right size? And would that extend the life of the motor since it's made to dissipate more heat?

 

[AHicks]

I don't know any of the specifics regarding your bike, as details regarding a 2015 bike are sketchy. I think it's pretty safe to assume there is an external controller as that's the way 99.9% of hub drives are set up. Mid drives are a different story. If you don't see one externally, there's a good chance it's been wadded into the frame somewhere. A couple of pictures might help to confirm.

Myself, I would want to confirm the motor is bad prior to any thoughts of replacing it - UNLESS - I just wanted to update available performance with a bigger motor or more powerful (higher amperage) controller!

Have you done any troubleshooting to confirm the dead motor? Any troubleshooting to check if it's even getting any power? A single simple broken or corroded connection could be shutting you down.....

 

[harryS]

Courts review says it is a direct drive motor. So it should have some cogging, and this should be the same in either direction/

The photo of the connector is hard to see. A motor with the controller in the motor should, as I envision it. have two big pins for battery power, plus a bumch of smaller pins for the handlebar controls, display, and pedal sensor. A normal 9 pin motor cable. has three heavy pins for motor power, plus six smaller pins,

 

[mscir]

Thanks for the replies, as you can tell I don't know anything about ebikes so your posts are really helpful. Apologies for the bad quality photos, I got a better shot of the female conn. and it accepts 2 large pins and 8 small pins, so it sounds like the controller is built into the hub. I have a display and throttle but I don't see a controller box anywhere (or wires going into the frame where it might be hidden,) so it's looking like it's in the hub. I think it's time to take the motor hub apart and look inside.
If a magnet de-laminated I will read up on reattaching it. A friend of mine knows a guy who works at the Scotts Valley, Ca Zero electric motorcycle plant and he had good results wrapping a sheet of carbon fiber around the magnets and frame to give the magnets additional support. Since this is the 2nd Curry motor this bike has gone through in 7 yrs it might be time to research things that will extend motor life.
Q - If I replace the hub and motor, is it a simple matter of measuring it and finding a matching motor/hub assembly so I can keep the 10 speed gears and shifter, which work perfectly, and just get a new display, throttle, and controller?
Q - If I do that are there recommended brands to look at, and can Ali Baba be trusted to sell decent quality parts?

I found this video about rewiring the motor to accept an external controller. Looks pretty straightforward.
How to Salvage / Hack a BionX Hub Motor for External Controller and 3rd Party Batteries

 

[harryS]

Changing controllers wil require a matching display. Throttle/nrakes will work, but need their connectors changed. Ditto for PAS sensor. You might appreciate a new color display that shows watts, voltage, etc,

Good luck on fimding a motor from 7 years ago. How about the battery? AT best, it may have lost 30-40%. Maybe needs a rebuild.

 

[AHicks]

Good point on the battery's age. With that in mind, and the price of something decent there, in addition to the price of a new hub conversion, one would have to wonder if this bike is worth resurrecting? Assuming the bike were 100% functional again, would it check all of the owner's boxes?

-OR-

Might it be time to go bike shopping?

With Black Friday sales coming up fast on us, how hard would it be to replace this bike with something more up to date - with warranty? Bigger battery, more power, better brakes, nicer display, all things worthy of note on a new bike.

This bike has already been on sale for 200. off it's normal price one time just recently....making for a very nice deal. Pretty sure there are going to be others soon...

Sport

FREE shipping on ebikes to the lower 48! 2-3 weeks delivery time Style, performance, and high-powered excitement. Does an aggressive riding style get you going? Then the Sport is for you. Its mountain bike inspired frame is perfect for your literally energized outing. Take those hills like...

www.espinbikes.com

 

[RunForTheHills]

I don't know. It doesn't look like the worst kind of donor bike to install a new kit on if the OP wants a project and likes the bike. It has disk brakes (mechanical, but could be upgraded) and a front suspension. You could get a decent kit and battery for less than half of what the bike cost new. He could go with another rear hub kit from Grin or replace the rear wheel and get a mid-drive kit for it.

https://electricbikereview.com/izip/2015-e3-dash/

 

[AHicks]

Some may depend on the willingness to take on a project like this as well. Even though it would be an excellent DIY project that some of us could do in a day. A first timer may take a bit longer..... as they have to learn every step of the way.

 

[mscir]

It's got new front suspension, new brakes, and a pretty new Lithium Ion battery. I like projects as long as I know what I'm doing. With ebikes I'm flying blind. So I appreciate you guys sharing your thoughts. I'm going to disassemble the rear hub if my gear puller fits it, and see what's going on inside. There's a lot of rolling resistance, I'll post pics if I get that far. Thanks to everyone who posted.

 

[mscir]

Changing controllers wil require a matching display. Throttle/nrakes will work, but need their connectors changed. Ditto for PAS sensor. You might appreciate a new color display that shows watts, voltage, etc,

Good luck on fimding a motor from 7 years ago. How about the battery? AT best, it may have lost 30-40%. Maybe needs a rebuild.

Can you recommend a 48V 500W controller and display you like?

 

[RunForTheHills]

I would buy a kit with motor, controller, and display. You can use your existing battery. That way everything will work together. You may need to do some soldering to connect the battery though.

 

[mscir]

I would buy a kit with motor, controller, and display. You can use your existing battery. That way everything will work together. You may need to do some soldering to connect the battery though.

Can you recommend a brand or manufacturer? Would you just buy a kit from AliBaba?

 

[AHicks]

I would take the chance to go with a geared hub setup for increased performance. It would very likely be a 500 watt Bafang geared hub. Controller would be by KT, for both their reputation and adjustability. It doesn't hurt that they're reasonably priced, with some great display options. Color is super nice and easy to use, but the downside is even the best of color displays have a tendency to wash out in direct sunlight. The LCD3 is a rock solid option that's easy to see in any light.

Perfect would be a 500w Bafang with waterproof KT controller (KT 22-A), and KT display of choice. I specify waterproof KT for their absolute simplicity when it comes to wiring the bike up.

I looked on Amazon and got close, but found nothing exactly as described.

 

[RunForTheHills]

I am partial to the Grin kits (ebikes.ca). However, they are more expensive and the display is retro looking in a bad way. They will provide good support for their kits though and the CAv3 display gives you flexibility that other kits do not, like the ability to use a torque sensing bottom bracket. They sell the Bafang 310 rear hub in a kit, or their more powerful Ezee geared hub motor. I definitely recommend a geared hub also if you don't like the resistance (cogging) in your direct drive motor. Geared hubs have a clutch that allow them to spin freely while coasting.

 

[RunForTheHills]

Also, when you are looking for kits, make sure the hub can take a cassette and doesn't use a freewheel since you have a 10 speed derailleur. This kit has a color display and an option to buy without a battery.

https://www.amazon.com/Conversion-Wheel-Electric-BAFANG-Display/dp/B07ZVNX15J?th=1&psc=1

 

[mscir]

Also, when you are looking for kits, make sure the hub can take a cassette and doesn't use a freewheel since you have a 10 speed derailleur. This kit has a color display and an option to buy without a battery.

https://www.amazon.com/Conversion-Wheel-Electric-BAFANG-Display/dp/B07ZVNX15J?th=1&psc=1

Thanks very much.

 

[mscir]

I disassembled the hub, the controller is built in, I see the 3 motor wires power wires, and 5 hall sensor wires going to a connector. Also there are 2 wires going to something else unknown.

None of the magnets in the wheel were de-laminated, nothing smells or looks burnt, I'm wondering about removing the controller and direct wiring it to an external KT controller as the YT video I posted above showed how to do. I have some questions about this:

Q - Is there a procedure to diagnose the 3 sets of windings the 3 large power supplying wires connect to, so I can verify that there are no opens or shorts? They all measure 422 ohms to the wire with the red shrink to fit. (That same wire measures 0 ohms to one of the two large pins in the motor connector, so I'm guessing that is the + 48V power line).
Q - Is there a procedure to diagnose the 3 Hall Sensors?
Q - Is it safe to ignore the additional unknoown 2 wire device?
Q - The motor appears to be 3 yrs old from the date code inside it, Is it correct that the magnets, coils and Hall sensors can last several more years, so removing the controller and wiring it to a connector that will let me attach a new controller, throttle and display may get me several years of good life from the motor? Or is this wrong thinking?

 

[AHicks]

White wire is often used as a speed sensor, as well as a thermal sensor. You should have 3 phase wires, 3 sensor wires, a hot wire, a ground wire (the 3 sensors all need a hot and a ground), and there's a good chance of a (white) speed sensor (for the speedo)

The fact the windings are black is usually a good sign they are cooked.

 

[harryS]

The motor windings are on the three heavy wires with the blue, green, and yellow screw down connectors. They should check out as plain wires, maybe 10-20 milliohms. AHicks thinks they should be orange, not black. Good catch. I agree.

 

[mscir]

Lol, now that you mention it this motor does look like it got really cooked. Is it possible the motor was cooked, and Curry/iZip put a new controller & Hall sensors in and resold it? Look at how the black layer is scraped away near the Hall Sensors. That looks like it was done as part of a refurb job. So I guess the questions now are:
- Q - is this motor junk, does overheating it render the coils unreliable, maybe the insulation can crack and lead to shorting... is the motor not worth using with an external controller, in your opinions?
- Q - to avoid this in future is it better to buy a 1000W motor and use it sparingly? I like the exercise and as much range as I can get. Are bigger motors made to dissipate more heat, so if I use it at lower power levels it will have less overheating problems and live longer?

$500 for a motor core every 3 years seems a little excessive. Thanks for your comments, this is educational.