E-Wheels -- Does anyone have experience with e-wheels?

[Colleen McGuire]

I am investigating Electron, Omni and GeoOrbital e-wheels. I can't seem to find any reviews on e-wheels by experienced e-bike users.

I test rode the Geo Orbital and like it ALOT but I was not able to ride it very long or far. I'm looking for e-wheels for a road bike with carbon fiber fork for long distances (30-50 miles).

I'm investigating whether e-wheels or a friction based system is best --- I'm wary of putting motorized hubs on a bike with a carbon fiber fork.

 

[_AleX_]

That GeoOrbital wheel looks impressive. If that's as easy as it looks, and it's a true all-in-one solution that easily allows to revert back to a human powered bicycle, it's pretty impressive.

I would worry about bending the rim perhaps? Remains to be seen how that will work out in real world usage. And how all that weight up front might impact ride-ability and feel. Although I saw someone riding on a snowy road in the promo video, and the tractability of the whole setup seemed to work fine. The price seems correct as well, 790 dollars...

Probably only available in the US (shipping costs to the EU would be prohibitive, and I would't like to ship expensive items like this without the ability of easily sending it back anyway).

I'm trying to absorb as much information as I can for a future build (or ready-built e-bike, I'm undecided), and this certainly seems promising. I will definitely keep my expectations in check. What I want from an e-bike is simply some assist to make regular bike riding at regular speeds less intensive. Therefore either increasing range, or make for more comfortable less sweaty commuting. The speeds are to be similar or only slightly higher than typical city bicycle (100-125% of regular human powered cycling, about 20 mph). Keeping components cheap, bicycles light, probably even making rim brakes a possibility. In that regard I think front wheel drive could definitely work.

 

[Nirmala]

Here is an early review of the Geo-Orbital that unfortunately is not based on personal experience: https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/...-wheel-turn-your-bike-into-a-tron-lightcycle/

However, the reviewer questions putting the wheel on a carbon fiber fork. There is some discussion on the kickstarter page about using carbon forks: https://www.kickstarter.com/project...e-electric-in-60-sec/comments?cursor=13275662
Here is what the creator of the Geo-Orbital wheel says about use with carbon forks on that page:

"Of of the main failure points of other electric bicycle upgrades is the fork not being strong enough to support the torque of the motor. The failure in almost always in the tip of the fork, where it holds the axle of the wheel. In a standard spinning wheel all the torque needs to be held at this point, since the axle is the only part of the wheel that isn't moving.

In our design though, the majority of the wheel doesn't spin. This allowed us to build a second attachment point further up on the fork where it's much wider and stronger. There is actually no torque on the weaker tip of the fork. This second attachment secures with two simple straps, and contacts the fork with soft rubber to avoid damage.

We've logged thousands of miles on all kinds of bikes, including carbon fiber frames, and have never seen the slightest signs of damage on any bicycle fork from using our wheel."

 

[_AleX_]

That makes a lot of sense! The lever arm for holding the motor from spinning or braking loose is about half a meter. There's no torque in the dropouts, just a tangential force, easily countered by attaching this system to the forks higher up. And most of the system is indeed not turning, the engine is on the rim.

This could very well be a very viable product, and a real good solution for quick and easy conversion. I'm sure it will find a market. This is what I like about e-bikes, there's something for everyone, and the spectrum of solutions and possibilities is huge. This niche will suit the people who do not have the tools/workshop to do a DIY build (think small downtown apartments, busy lives, ...), no skills to do a DIY build (nothing wrong with that) but who don't want to spring for an upmarket 3500-4000 dollar factory built e-bike. Many of us have a decent bicycle lying around that would be easily converted with one of those wheels. If you're in the city and don't need those 28mph speeds, this will do just fine. 800 dollars is a lot of money, but in absolute terms 1/3 of the price of a factory e-bike. It makes a difference for sure.

And you can bring the whole unit along whenever you change bikes.

Remains the question of how the rim will last over time and how fragile/exposed the engine-rim connection really is (think rocks, dirt, ...)

I hope they get distributed elsewhere than just the US, for sure.

edit: referring to the geoOrbital

 

[JP Commuter]

Anyone interested in the Geoorbital should look at the comments section @ the Kickstarter Campaign. It is full of insights from owners and riders with personal experience. If I had to summarize avter 2 weeks with the wheel:

1. Range is on the lower side of estimates - I have seen 12-14 miles with moderate pedaling on relatively flat roads
2. The solid wheel prevents flats but does translates to a harsher ride or rough roads
3. You WILL get lots of attention from people asking about the wheel
4. Throttle layout and ergonomics are not quite right in my opinion, my next e-bike will use a torque sensor
5. If you do run out of battery power you are in for a major workout, as the resistance is quite strong on the wheel
6. Overall, the wheel is quality built and is fun but I would use it only for short jaunts around town, longer trips or commuting any distance over 5 miles is not recommended

 

[JP Commuter]

That GeoOrbital wheel looks impressive. If that's as easy as it looks, and it's a true all-in-one solution that easily allows to revert back to a human powered bicycle, it's pretty impressive.

I would worry about bending the rim perhaps? Remains to be seen how that will work out in real world usage. And how all that weight up front might impact ride-ability and feel. Although I saw someone riding on a snowy road in the promo video, and the tractability of the whole setup seemed to work fine. The price seems correct as well, 790 dollars...

Probably only available in the US (shipping costs to the EU would be prohibitive, and I would't like to ship expensive items like this without the ability of easily sending it back anyway).

I'm trying to absorb as much information as I can for a future build (or ready-built e-bike, I'm undecided), and this certainly seems promising. I will definitely keep my expectations in check. What I want from an e-bike is simply some assist to make regular bike riding at regular speeds less intensive. Therefore either increasing range, or make for more comfortable less sweaty commuting. The speeds are to be similar or only slightly higher than typical city bicycle (100-125% of regular human powered cycling, about 20 mph). Keeping components cheap, bicycles light, probably even making rim brakes a possibility. In that regard I think front wheel drive could definitely work.

Using the wheel for 2 weeks not, I don't see any issue with the possibility of damaging the fork, the motor just does not produce enought torque to do that type of damage on a quality bike. If you mount it on a Walmart bike then who knows as they use rally cheap stamped steel

 

[JP Commuter]

I am investigating Electron, Omni and GeoOrbital e-wheels. I can't seem to find any reviews on e-wheels by experienced e-bike users.

I test rode the Geo Orbital and like it ALOT but I was not able to ride it very long or far. I'm looking for e-wheels for a road bike with carbon fiber fork for long distances (30-50 miles).

I'm investigating whether e-wheels or a friction based system is best --- I'm wary of putting motorized hubs on a bike with a carbon fiber fork.

I think your fork will be fine. See my comments below after using the wheel for a few weeks on a 10 mile RT commute

 

[Javi]

Hi Collin, did you finally get one of those? I'm on the same boat and want to add one to a fibre carbon road bike for 30 miles. Any real life experience would be valuable.

Thanks

 

[Robert W Green]

I am investigating Electron, Omni and GeoOrbital e-wheels. I can't seem to find any reviews on e-wheels by experienced e-bike users.

I test rode the Geo Orbital and like it ALOT but I was not able to ride it very long or far. I'm looking for e-wheels for a road bike with carbon fiber fork for long distances (30-50 miles).

I'm investigating whether e-wheels or a friction based system is best --- I'm wary of putting motorized hubs on a bike with a carbon fiber fork.

I have been looking into self contained ewheels also for my back up bike because I can't afford another purpose built ebike. What I found was the ones you mentioned and the one that I chose: UrbanX. It is a front wheel with motor, controller, and battery all in the hub. UrbanX has a removable battery reminiscent of a cordless drill battery only cresent shaped. It comes in 24,26,27.5,29,650c,700c and if they can meet their kickstarter goal of $500,000 - 20" wheel sises. You can choose from pedal assist only, throttle only and best of both worlds: both. No I haven't tried one yet but I'm taking a leap of faith and pledge my $479 to get the throttle and peddle assist model sometime in July. I'll post a review when I get it and have used it for a few months.

 

[KELLY kARIM]

I bought my Geo Orbital wheel about weeks ago. This wheel makes biking feasible for me again. I used it more as a peddle assist for the large hills in Atlanta. I am using it for exercise, running errands and pleasure all at the same time. Because I love this wheel on my bike, I am finding that I am using it instead of my car on most days. I've gone about 12 miles at the most at one time and only had to fully charge for an hour and a half. Normally full charge takes about three hours. My guess is I could probably have biked at least 24 miles. You can also buy a second battery for longer trips. I peddled most of the trip pressing a small amount on the throttle, except on hills. There is resistance on flat ground, but slight pressure on the throttle makes it fine to peddle. They will offer within the next two months a throttle extender for smaller hands like mine.

 

[Robert W Green]

I recieved my UrbaNext wheel last Friday and finally got a chance to test it on a simulated commute to work. I wasn't sure of the range because that depends on how much weight you load on it, so I left with only me and 2 bottles of water. If the test had gone well I would have done another with two paniers -25lbs total and me 239 lbs but it didn't. The motor was strong and with pedaling I was able to go 9mph on level 1, 12 mph on level 2, and 14 mph on level 3. Was disappointed to discover that what they call pedal assist is really only cruise control with three differant levels but I'm ok with that the range is whats important. To engage the motor you must first achieve 5 mph pedaling. I settled on level 2 and with constant pedaling was able to do a comfortable 12 mph. I was only able to get 7.3 miles on a charge which left me with .5 miles to pedal. As neighborhood bike or a ride down to the corner store this wheel is great, but as a commuter it falls very short. To get the 30 mile range that they claim I'd have to carry an additional 3 battery packs ($199 each) adding 6 more pounds to my load.
Possible fixes to make this product better could be: a higher capacity battery pack (possibly lippo), a pedalec sensor and a universal sunvisor for cell phone screens (glare from sun). Your mileage may very.

 

[kola8273]

I bought the geo orbital a while ago. There weren't really any reviews so I had to just take a flying leap. Here's my review;

1) Wheel is solidly constructed. I am not worried about it breaking. The One problem though is the battery pack is loose and vibrates when you ride. This was solved very easily by putting a paper towel wedged in between the frame and the battery. Seems like such a silly problem that would have been so easily fixed in the factory with some foam.

2) There is no way I am getting 20 miles out of this wheel. The most I have gotten is 5 miles. I was worried about this as I am 6'5 and 270lbs, so if you are 150lbs your probably going to get more mileage than I do. I got this wheel to ride to work which is 10 miles one way, I thought since it was rated to get 20 miles, I would be at least able to do 10 given my weight.

3) The weight of the wheel is really annoying. My road bike was very light and easy to move around but after attaching this wheel wrestling this bike in an out of my house is a real chore. This is obviously a drawback to all e-bikes. But it was just surprising how the extra weight affected my overall experience.

4) The throttle ergonomics are horrendous. They designed the throttle to put in any position you can think of on your bike, and I have tried at least 10 different positions. The throw of the throttle is too far, like it moves 90 deg, 30 degs throw would have been fine and less cumbersome. Ideally I would just prefer a push button of simply full throttle or no throttle. The power of this wheel is lacking and I don't need a variable throttle.

5) Regenerative breaking? I don't know what or how that is supposed to work as I have run this thing dry and then I have had to pedal another 5 miles home and the bike did not gain any charge. Riding the bike after the wheel has died is a chore, the ability to disconnect the motor and have the wheel move freely after the battery dies would be a huge improvement.

6) The power is lacking, but that might be my weight.

So I have written a lot of negatives about the wheel but I do like it, it's probably not worth the 995 I paid for it, If the company could fix the complaints I had about the wheel this would be a solid buy

 

[Campfool]

I bought the geo orbital a while ago. There weren't really any reviews so I had to just take a flying leap. Here's my review;

1) Wheel is solidly constructed. I am not worried about it breaking. The One problem though is the battery pack is loose and vibrates when you ride. This was solved very easily by putting a paper towel wedged in between the frame and the battery. Seems like such a silly problem that would have been so easily fixed in the factory with some foam.

2) There is no way I am getting 20 miles out of this wheel. The most I have gotten is 5 miles. I was worried about this as I am 6'5 and 270lbs, so if you are 150lbs your probably going to get more mileage than I do. I got this wheel to ride to work which is 10 miles one way, I thought since it was rated to get 20 miles, I would be at least able to do 10 given my weight.

3) The weight of the wheel is really annoying. My road bike was very light and easy to move around but after attaching this wheel wrestling this bike in an out of my house is a real chore. This is obviously a drawback to all e-bikes. But it was just surprising how the extra weight affected my overall experience.

4) The throttle ergonomics are horrendous. They designed the throttle to put in any position you can think of on your bike, and I have tried at least 10 different positions. The throw of the throttle is too far, like it moves 90 deg, 30 degs throw would have been fine and less cumbersome. Ideally I would just prefer a push button of simply full throttle or no throttle. The power of this wheel is lacking and I don't need a variable throttle.

5) Regenerative breaking? I don't know what or how that is supposed to work as I have run this thing dry and then I have had to pedal another 5 miles home and the bike did not gain any charge. Riding the bike after the wheel has died is a chore, the ability to disconnect the motor and have the wheel move freely after the battery dies would be a huge improvement.

6) The power is lacking, but that might be my weight.

So I have written a lot of negatives about the wheel but I do like it, it's probably not worth the 995 I paid for it, If the company could fix the complaints I had about the wheel this would be a solid buy

I've had my GeoOrbital for two months and put about 200 miles on it in that time. I agree with your review of the wheel but as I'm 6' and 160lbs my experience may be a bit different.
1) The battery mount does indeed allow for too much vibration and movement of the battery and is my biggest complaint. Considering the cost, necessity, and potential safety hazard of a damaged battery, a couple simple and inexpensive improvements, as in your suggestion of a foam layer, would prevent this vibration and provide a much more stable mount.
2) As far as I am able to determine, I am getting near 18-20 miles per charge. This is using assist and in slight hilly terrain, so who knows what actual is. I also regularly pull a trailer full of groceries which sucks power like crazy! I'm satisfied with the battery performance, but I'd agree it's probably not getting the distance GeoOrbital claims.
3) The weight of this wheel does indeed throw a bike wildly out of normal balance. Every time I pick my bike up I still find it shocking, and have to put the bike back down to adjust. In use, however, I hardly notice the added weight and it hasn't affected my steering or braking in any appreciable way. Free peddling, without any assist from the battery, is another story. For myself it is far to exhausting and impractical with this wheel. If I want to ride using only my own power the wheel needs to come off, period.
4) The throttle length is too short and the throw a bit too long, but were easily solved by my attaching a small clothespin style clamp to the throttle adding a necessary inch of length. I use my palm/thumb to adjust speed and am still able to keep hold of the handlebar and apply the brake at the same time.
5) I have no idea if regenerative braking works either, but the resistance the wheel adds when not powered is significant. Hats off to you for being able to free-peddle 5 miles on this thing, no way I'd be able to.
6) The power provided by the battery could be greater, but is adequate for my needs. in fact, It provides enough power that I'm able to pull a grocery-filled trailer, total combined weight of 300lbs, back from the grocery store with little assistance from myself, a distance of six miles and over 100 ' of elevation change. Coming from a stop with this much weight requires assistance from me, but once I get moving the wheel alone can accelerate to and maintain a speed well beyond my comfort zone!

Overall, I love the GeoOrbital and I don't regret its purchase. The cost is high, no doubt. I was able to get a $100 discount simply by emailing GeoOrbital, but still the cost was significant compared to other options. Why I chose to pay the premium cost was the ease of installation, the ability to quickly revert back and forth with hardly any effort, and remove and carry it with me while shopping, etc. so I don't have to worry about losing it to thieves.

 

[kola8273]

I've had my GeoOrbital for two months and put about 200 miles on it in that time. I agree with your review of the wheel but as I'm 6' and 160lbs my experience may be a bit different.
1) The battery mount does indeed allow for too much vibration and movement of the battery and is my biggest complaint. Considering the cost, necessity, and potential safety hazard of a damaged battery, a couple simple and inexpensive improvements, as in your suggestion of a foam layer, would prevent this vibration and provide a much more stable mount.
2) As far as I am able to determine, I am getting near 18-20 miles per charge. This is using assist and in slight hilly terrain, so who knows what actual is. I also regularly pull a trailer full of groceries which sucks power like crazy! I'm satisfied with the battery performance, but I'd agree it's probably not getting the distance GeoOrbital claims.
3) The weight of this wheel does indeed throw a bike wildly out of normal balance. Every time I pick my bike up I still find it shocking, and have to put the bike back down to adjust. In use, however, I hardly notice the added weight and it hasn't affected my steering or braking in any appreciable way. Free peddling, without any assist from the battery, is another story. For myself it is far to exhausting and impractical with this wheel. If I want to ride using only my own power the wheel needs to come off, period.
4) The throttle length is too short and the throw a bit too long, but were easily solved by my attaching a small clothespin style clamp to the throttle adding a necessary inch of length. I use my palm/thumb to adjust speed and am still able to keep hold of the handlebar and apply the brake at the same time.
5) I have no idea if regenerative braking works either, but the resistance the wheel adds when not powered is significant. Hats off to you for being able to free-peddle 5 miles on this thing, no way I'd be able to.
6) The power provided by the battery could be greater, but is adequate for my needs. in fact, It provides enough power that I'm able to pull a grocery-filled trailer, total combined weight of 300lbs, back from the grocery store with little assistance from myself, a distance of six miles and over 100 ' of elevation change. Coming from a stop with this much weight requires assistance from me, but once I get moving the wheel alone can accelerate to and maintain a speed well beyond my comfort zone!

Overall, I love the GeoOrbital and I don't regret its purchase. The cost is high, no doubt. I was able to get a $100 discount simply by emailing GeoOrbital, but still the cost was significant compared to other options. Why I chose to pay the premium cost was the ease of installation, the ability to quickly revert back and forth with hardly any effort, and remove and carry it with me while shopping, etc. so I don't have to worry about losing it to thieves.

Sounds like we have had a similar experience! But I have an update....

Found out mytt 5 mile limitation was not due to battery. There is an internal temp sensor cut-off (or something of that nature), My ride to work is 9 miles of multi-use path. I can just leave the throttle wide open for miles on end. So around the 6th miles i thought the batterry was dying was really the wheel going into safe mode. I had been so tired that day that I just decided to push the bike home, then after about a half hour of walking the wheel came back to life and had over 50% charge still. Soooo I guess I need to give the wheel a break every mile or so to not overheat.... I don't know. I am going to contact geo orbital.

 

[Campfool]

Mine hasn't shut down completely like yours, but on several occasions it has switched into a low-power mode of some sort. Power fluctuates rapidly about six or eight times then drops to maybe a quarter of normal until I come to a complete stop which has been enough to reset back to normal. Thermal protection sounds reasonable, not sure.
Another concern I'm starting to have is the amount of wear to the rubber tread that guides the wheel. Mine seems excessive. I spoke to GeoOrbital three weeks ago about this and they assured me this was normal, and tread loss would occur during a break in period of 100 or so miles until the wheel found it's true. I've put well over 300 miles and showing no sign of tread wear slowing down. At this rate it will be gone in a month.

 

[Steve Boor]

@ Campfool,

I've had my GeoOrbital wheel (700C version) since early March. I probably have put nearly 500 miles on mine so far, and use it pretty regularly to commute the almost 5 miles each way between my work and home here in the Dallas suburbs....

I'll post a mini-review sometime soon. But, I did want to share with you my "fix" for the battery rattling issue. I'm calling it the Lone Star Tuck. ;-)

Basically, after the battery is normally inserted into the wheel, I found that I can do the following to virtually eliminate the battery rattling sounds:

1) rotate the battery handle to its non-retracted (carrying) position,

2) place the extra length of one of the side rubber straps (after you have secured the strap for riding use around your front fork) down into the space behind the battery mount rail, and

3) while holding the strap in place, rotate the battery handle back down into its retracted (non-carrying) position, until it presses firmly against the rubber strap.

The battery can still rattle a little, if you hit a hard bump in the road. But, the strap forms a nice snug fit between the battery and the wheel frame - better than shoving the strap in-between the side of the battery and the frame, but with a lot less tension than the "battery strap wrap" method, which might cause the battery plastic and/or the handle attachment point to crack/break. I have found this fix to work like a champ at eliminating the vast majority of the most annoying of the battery rattling sounds, and the strap seems to me to remain solidly in place until I'm ready to remove the battery for charging.

I've passed my "fix" along to the GeoOrbital folks, and they love it. They claim that they've tried it out, and that it works well for both their 700C and smaller 26" e-wheels. They even sent me some GeoOrbital swag in appreciation for my suggestion. They're planning on promoting it publicly "sometime soon" for all of their current owners, and to those who are potential wheel buyers. But, I thought you (and perhaps others who frequent this blog) might like hearing about it before their official roll-out.... ;-)

Enjoy the GeoOrbital ride!

 

[Jenny from the block]

I recieved my UrbaNext wheel last Friday and finally got a chance to test it on a simulated commute to work. I wasn't sure of the range because that depends on how much weight you load on it, so I left with only me and 2 bottles of water. If the test had gone well I would have done another with two paniers -25lbs total and me 239 lbs but it didn't. The motor was strong and with pedaling I was able to go 9mph on level 1, 12 mph on level 2, and 14 mph on level 3. Was disappointed to discover that what they call pedal assist is really only cruise control with three differant levels but I'm ok with that the range is whats important. To engage the motor you must first achieve 5 mph pedaling. I settled on level 2 and with constant pedaling was able to do a comfortable 12 mph. I was only able to get 7.3 miles on a charge which left me with .5 miles to pedal. As neighborhood bike or a ride down to the corner store this wheel is great, but as a commuter it falls very short. To get the 30 mile range that they claim I'd have to carry an additional 3 battery packs ($199 each) adding 6 more pounds to my load.
Possible fixes to make this product better could be: a higher capacity battery pack (possibly lippo), a pedalec sensor and a universal sunvisor for cell phone screens (glare from sun). Your mileage may very.

Hi I just received my Urbanext after waiting 4 months. Opted for the 350w booster model (supposedly PAS+Throttle). No instructions came with it. After putting the wheel on backwards (nothing ANYWHERE Said battery must be on right hand side) and trying to jerry-rig the cheap components to my bike, I get it out for a test drive. Can't figure out the diff bt PAS and how to go "full electric" as they promise. You mention 3 levels. Where is that feature? Any help would be greatly appreciated and could help many frustrated yet hopeful Urbanext riders.

 

[Admin]

I test rode the Geo-Orbital product at Interbike and an Expo in Philadelphia and had the following questions about it (to owners or other testers) and some feedback:

It seems heavy, impacts steering because the motor and battery are mounted to the front wheel, is not easy to use if you run out of batteries or want to ride "unpowered" and I question how the rim will hold up long term as dust, water etc. is introduced. It seemed like more of a novelty to me personally, it does work and is a neat concept but you also lose the comfort and flexibility that spokes offer and it may struggle or be incompatible with some suspension setups and fenders. I care a lot about handling, balance, and comfort so I tend to be attracted to rear-wheel conversion or a purpose built ebikes.