Death on a Sondors

[JoePah]

Over 9000 Sondors bikes sold. How many nasty and negative comments have you made? Do you think any supporters pay attention to your Boy Cries Wolf schtick?


All CF creators on IGG, KS etc should be setting up a LLC to protect the Creator from personal liability lawsuits. As far as I can determine there is no requirement for a CF company to carry liability insurance.

The primary benefit of liability insurance is not necessarily the insurance company paying a liability judgment. Perhaps the greatest benefit is the insurance company paying for a legal defense against a liability claim. We don't know if Storm has that or not, do we?

Finally, we don't know anything about the cause of the accident. To accuse the CF company of negligence when you do not have any evidence is irresponsible. Perhaps you should be prosecuted?

 

[George S.]

When the KS campaign ended, they seemed to be taking orders on the gosondors site. Now they are just putting people on a waiting list. They have never sold anything. Sondors took the money and bought bikes for people, then the Chinese factory shipped them direct to the backers.

Right now, there are nothing but complaints on the Sondor Kickstarter site. The Wave ebike, on IGG, seems like a real fiasco. The managers of the Koben are very late, with problems they created by stretching their final product way beyond the original.

The CF campaigns are not worth it. The Sondo is really a $700 bike. These days you can get hub motors, a battery, and a controller for maybe $600. Court just reviewed a package for a bit more. Dig up a bike at the thrift store, on Craiglist, anything local, I guess. If you love the Sondors, buy the Sondors, but it's not the ideal bike for a lot of people.

If you build a kit you won't get much liability coverage. You built it. You can sue yourself. I always think about the top personal injury lawyers in Utah. They say, endless TV ads, that people who hire lawyers get 4x as much. But work that out. If insusrance companies pay out 4 times as much, how much will rates go up? And the other thing is, even if Sondo had insurance, you'll still need a lawyer to get them to pay you, on a significant claim. Doesn't it seem a little broken, just as a system? Any day without a lawyer and an insurance company is a good day.

Be nice to know what actually happened...

 

[Hurley]

The focal point ought to be on why he was NOT wearing a helmet--while riding a bike capable of 20 mph, at 2:00 am in the morning. Sounds like he crashed into a curb, and went head first onto the pavement. A helmet probably would have saved his life.

You don't plow into a curb at high speed without personal judgement coming into play. I find it hard to believe, the Sondors bike forced him into a curb at high speed at 2:00 am in the morning. In all likeliness, he did not see the curb because it was dark and perhaps his judgement was impaired.

The guy (happens to be his name) was a very good artist. May he rest in peace, and may FTC give it a rest...

 

[Tara D.]

He was a really amazing artist. Here is a link to his website if anyone wants to see his work and put a face to his name. What a tragic accident. (Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

 

[BatteryPower]

And there is a litany of complaints on Indigogo as well as Kickstarter.

The fact a DEATH occured is factual
The fact there is no recourse is factual

I agree with George build your own bike and accept the responsiblity for doing so.

 

[one4torque]

Fact - I own a sondors.
Fact - I have over 1000 harmless miles on a sondors.
Fact - I will continue to drive my sondors at the risk of danger per above poster.......
Fact - This thread does exist.

 

[JoePah]

Close to 3500 active Sondors owners on Facebook.. Forming riding groups, friendships.. Could a Sondors' Owner Marriage be far off? LOL.

Good people know what risk looks like.. While those who are jealous and petty cower behind their keyboards.

 

[JoeinJP]

“These humans appear to have all the faculties necessary to receive and process information,”

...etc, etc.

This guy is quoting a satirical piece from the New Yorker as FACT?

 

[BatteryPower]

Sondors is a "judgement" proof company without depth or product liability insurance.

The sale has been structured as to prevent owners from finding financial recourse.

Additionally Sondors is engaged in a lawsuit for non-payment to one of his key vendors.

There may be significant danger in this imported Chinese product;
--this product has not been tested for safety; not by the manufacturer or by an independent lab

This product is in the hands of several thousands of people who may be at risk of death or injury.

With the distribution of these bikes being a recent occurrence, A death occurred within a very short timeframe.

 

[PowerMe]

Are you trying to say the product failed and that's why this cyclist died? Can you please provide proof that the product is what is at fault, and thus not the cyclist? Sure it wasn't the concrete curb at fault?

Did the ebike pedal or motor itself into the curb @ 2am? Was the cyclist wearing safety gear--you know, a helmet?

Every single person who rides any bike or drives any vehicle is at risk of death or injury from using their bike or vehicle. If the vehicle/bike was working just fine, then it would be due to something else. Unless you're trying to imply Sonders bikes are possessed and are on a mission to kill their owners.

 

[BatteryPower]

Are you trying to say the product failed and that's why this cyclist died?

Ebike and bicycles are covered by "strict liability." I would argue that Sondors is responsible in full or in part.

Under strict liability the lack of documentation might be all that would be required to prove fault in part to sondors.

Sondors never defined how the product should " be used" and how it should be operated; Nor did Sondors provide information on how to assemble the bike as to preclude injury.

To Sondors the lack of documentation, and product liability insurance, is a cost savings. To the consumer this is a vector for injury and death as was the case for the artist in Hawaii killed in his prime.

 

[one4torque]

If you believe sondors to be at fault then put your energy/resources/money where your mouth is... And file a claim.

To do anything else is similar trolling.... Which has its own cathartic reward.

Do you need a hug?

 

[BatteryPower]

trolling

Being upset about the "truth" on your part does not make the telling of the same factual truth trolling no more than it makes a fact false. You are trying to shut down critical thinking.

The fact is that a death occurred on a Sondors (as was predicted here prior to thousands being sold on the back of false claims) and the bike is defective; defective to the standards of strict liability given the lack of documentation; safety warnings, assembly instructions, how to use the product.

Defective, as in try to be made whole by a company that is "judgment proof and failed intentionally to carry product liability insurance."
On the documentation side we are talking a cost of $5 - $20 a bike and on insurance side we are talking between $40-$100 a bike.

The other defective part of the business plan is failing to pay your vendor $600,000 - $1.2 million. That works out to $100 to $200 per bike.

Bikes such as Trek, Systems from Bosch; and even small companies consider these costs to be ethical and business realities.

In any regards, The Sondors bike is not so cheap if it robs you of your life or cripples you permanently. Being judgement proof, speaking out is the only recourse and safeguard citizens have. My understanding from Agency 2.0 is Sondors skips town at every court appearance, there is no point in suing someone you cannot collect from.

As discussed here Sondors (and as predicted) Sondors is a deadbeat.

 

[one4torque]

The truth is interpretive I guess.

Gl with your quest.

I'm off for another 30 mile ride on my sondors.

 

[Ann M.]

I'm sorry; however, we walked through all of this vitriolic spew during the Sondors campaign. There is no warranty or liability insurance that Sondors has produced to the public at this time. It is unfortunate that someone has died on a Sondors ebike or any ebike and the circumstances of this accident make it unclear who is liable. This thread is redundant and I will delete any further posts.

 

[barnfresh]

The focal point ought to be on why he was NOT wearing a helmet--while riding a bike capable of 20 mph, at 2:00 am in the morning. Sounds like he crashed into a curb, and went head first onto the pavement. A helmet probably would have saved his life.

You don't plow into a curb at high speed without personal judgement coming into play. I find it hard to believe, the Sondors bike forced him into a curb at high speed at 2:00 am in the morning. In all likeliness, he did not see the curb because it was dark and perhaps his judgement was impaired.

The guy (happens to be his name) was a very good artist. May he rest in peace, and may FTC give it a rest...

So which curb do you think it was? Maybe taking a shortcut to the roll up door or miss judged the drop to the driveway?? Who knows, either way this is a tragic loss to the community. https://www.google.com/maps/place/2...5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d20.883849!4d-156.677678

 

[SimpsonBandit]

Sounds like a few people just don't like Storm or Sondors, maybe a little bitter, just saying! Could we stretch blame to Chinese manufacturers that supply after market kits which people fit to their bikes with no form of mechanical qualification or knowledge and hold the Chinese manufacturers responsible for any collisions or death also? Was the unfortunate person wearing approved safety equipment whilst riding his Sondors bike? i.e. helmet, could any injuries that occurred have been prevented by the rider themselves? A lot of things to take into account but hey, just keep blaming the Sondors brand if it soothes your bitter soles dudes. I'm a fan and have been riding my Sondors in the UK without issues, I have been wearing safety equipment and not been riding under the influence of any drugs or alcohol, or fatigued enough for it to effect me, oh and what about the thousands of other Sondors riders out there without issues also. Just saying!

 

[Ann M.]

Agreed, @SimpsonBandit, there are a lot of happy Sondors owners and that has been reported on EBR and noted by Court in his reviews of the bikes. It's hard to know all of the facts in this particular case as so little was included in any article I could find, even from local news on the islands. If someone hits a curb straight on and isn't wearing a helmet, it can cause serious injury no matter how the person or bike got into that situation. Don't think that the problem was with the Sondors bike.

 

[Greg Tanihara]

Guy Junker was my friend and his girlfriend gave me the Sonders e bike he died on after the accident. There's was nothing wrong with the bike. Throttle works fine. The brakes worked but I adjusted them tighter when I got it. The bike is solid as a tank always has been. I ride it hard everyday shopping for my business with 4 full grocery bags on the rack saddlebags. Guy was leaving a friends studio up the hill from his studio. Going down his steep street he misjudged a driveway leading to his studio and went through a planter and hit a sign that knocked him off his bike and his head slapped into the asphalt. He wasn't wearing his helmet. He was just 3 driveways from his place. It was late and dark. Superunfortunate were all crushed. Guy was a Kendo teacher and a super talented happening artist. He helped poor or homeless artists start their own art businesses and a cook start his own restaurant. He was a rare human being. I don't think he would appreciate anyone blaming the company for a defective bike because it isn't. It's a great bike it's never failed me. I abuse this beast daily for work it's Champion. I appreciate it everyday. Guy loved this bike so do I. Aloha

 

[Fitzy]

Aloha

That was very thoughtful for you to have addressed this, Greg. I have been in my fair-share of bike accidents. In one in particular I was thankful for my helmet, which disintegrated when I smacked my head on the pavement. I'm only lucky I haven't had this happen helmetless. RIP Guy...I hope you have many happy and safe miles on Guy's bike and that his spirit rides along with you.