Confusion on trail rules?

[E biker]

So we drove 30 miles to a( bicycle trail ) and a sigh reading NO ELECTRIC VHEACLES OF ANY KIND, except wheelchairs,I wish the trail website would have been more information minded.So I will ,it is The Fishing
Line Trail ,in Noble County, Indiana, I hope it's ok to pass this on

 

[Ken M]

The federal definition in HR727 defines a compliant "low speed electric bicycle" as a subcategory of bicycle...specifically saying they are not to be considered motor vehicles. I would have rode that day on my compliant LSEB as someone needs to push this. HR727 passed congressional voting one vote short of complete consensus and those are state representatives that spoke in 2002. Then along comes People for Bikes with lobby money and tosses out the 3-class legislation that simply took the industry down a rat hole because they wanted some harmonization with Europe.

 

[Catalyzt]

It is really strange that here in Los Angeles-- at least so far-- there has been no friction and no problems. Ebikes can go anywhere a bicycle can, and can totally ignore the old "No motor vehicles" signs (which probably date to the 1970s.)

This is in a city where people get shot for cutting people off in their cars! There are also some spots-- like the roads to the Hollywood sign-- that get shut down periodically due to vehicle congestion. Both rangers and traffic control have just waved me right on through.

 

[Ken M]

It is really strange that here in Los Angeles-- at least so far-- there has been no friction and no problems. Ebikes can go anywhere a bicycle can, and can totally ignore the old "No motor vehicles" signs (which probably date to the 1970s.)

This is in a city where people get shot for cutting people off in their cars! There are also some spots-- like the roads to the Hollywood sign-- that get shut down periodically due to vehicle congestion. Both rangers and traffic control have just waved me right on through.

Instead of pushing the nonsensical 3-class system People for Bikes should have just ensured that all states cleaned up their "use regulations" to allow a compliant LSEB to be used as a bike which is what was intended by HR727. Sadly the one time bike advocacy group became an industry lobby organization more interested in regulatory capture then small ebike regulation.

 

[rich c]

It is really strange that here in Los Angeles-- at least so far-- there has been no friction and no problems. Ebikes can go anywhere a bicycle can, and can totally ignore the old "No motor vehicles" signs (which probably date to the 1970s.)

This is in a city where people get shot for cutting people off in their cars! There are also some spots-- like the roads to the Hollywood sign-- that get shut down periodically due to vehicle congestion. Both rangers and traffic control have just waved me right on through.

Each municipality can establish their own rules, so no surprise LA is different than Noble County, Indiana. This might help in Indiana, https://wsd-pfb-sparkinfluence.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2020/05/E-Bike-Law-Handouts_IN_2020.pdf

 

[E biker]

Thanks all,I emailed the parks department for a straight answer until then we will visit other trails and spend money there.

 

[Ken M]

Each municipality can establish their own rules, so no surprise LA is different than Noble County, Indiana. This might help in Indiana, https://wsd-pfb-sparkinfluence.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2020/05/E-Bike-Law-Handouts_IN_2020.pdf

There in lies the problem - there is no reason whatsoever for a compliant HR727 LSEB to be treated as anything but a bike nationally (it passed just one vote short of congressional consensus). I know some argue that each trail is different ... then set speed limits on all bikes using those trails if that is a legil concern. Get tiresome listening to trail managers saying that ebikes may move a few more grains of dirt from a trail than a regular bike when everyone knows that trails are primarily damaged by erosion.

I would suggest that you send HR727 and the recent DOI order on ebike use allowance on federal land (essentially says they are bikes) to your local rule makers as maybe it will help them make a good decision favoring ebike use as a bike.

 

[6zfshdb]

All it takes is one e-bike hater on a town council to pass an ordinance banning them. Federal and State regulations don't mean a thing to these people. I've now seen three of the trails I frequent, posed with signs that read "NO EBIKES ALLOWED". That leaves no room for interpretation whatsoever.

 

[E biker]

Thanks, well I guess I won't buy a more expensive ebike till someone finally gets it right. I see a letter to our state representative might be in order.

 

[E biker]

We were talking to a guy who was nice about it, and said there were people that patrol the trail with a vest on of some kind, and he said that they can be pretty nasty was his way of putting it.
I just didn't want to cause any trouble, who knows, maybe that are like Barney, or something ,and carry tasers, blasting senior citizens on them ### electric bycycles.
I have sent a email to the Nobel county parks.
I guess they have plans to connect to other trails in the future, so will the user need to stop and walk their ebicycle 14 miles on the fishing line trail to get to the next trail.
We ride a trail by Shipshewana Indiana, the pumpkin vine trail, their sighn reads class 1 and 2 bicycles allowed Speed limit 15.Pretty simple.

 

[Ken M]

How does someone know if the ebike is turned on?

 

[6zfshdb]

FWIW, I had a conversation with a Pennsylvania DCNR Ranger last season and this was one of the questions I asked. I was told, strictly interpreted, it doesn't matter if the e-bike is turned on or not or whether the throttle is disabled or not, class 2 bikes are NOT allowed on certain state maintained trails. They are clearly marked class 1 only. I also asked how many citations had been written and was told "very few". The ranger didn't even ask me to leave even though I was riding a class 2 bike at the time.

This obviously will vary with location but here at least, enforcement is very lax unless there is a complaint.

 

[E biker]

FWIW, I had a conversation with a Pennsylvania DCNR Ranger last season and this was one of the questions I asked. I was told, strictly interpreted, it doesn't matter if the e-bike is turned on or not or whether the throttle is disabled or not, class 2 bikes are NOT allowed on certain state maintained trails. They are clearly marked class 1 only. I also asked how many citations had been written and was told "very few". The ranger didn't even ask me to leave even though I was riding a class 2 bike at the time.

This obviously will vary with location but here at least, enforcement is very lax unless there is a complaint.

But you were talking to a professional employee of the state, this was a community trail, I will post what happens if I can get someone to answer why ebicycles are not allowed, if not why not.

 

[rich c]

All it takes is one e-bike hater on a town council to pass an ordinance banning them. Federal and State regulations don't mean a thing to these people. I've now seen three of the trails I frequent, posed with signs that read "NO EBIKES ALLOWED". That leaves no room for interpretation whatsoever.

One eBike hater starts it all? I find it very unlikely that someone on a town council has just randomly decided to hate eBikes. It most often takes some speeding complaints or watching someone not pedaling something that looks like a motorcycle to get the ball rolling.

 

[Ken M]

strictly interpreted,

Not really sure how an ebike not being powered is different than a bike. I have always questioned the logic of class 1 and 2 being considered different for trail use considering how the drive system tech can really gray the distinction of what a PAS and throttle-assist ebike is. Regardless, it's pretty clear the class system is not a good long term legislative system. I will as some point that People for Bikes would engage on their system in a public debate and answer the question on origin, how much lobby money they received to push the regulatory capture, why class 3 ebikes can only be PAS when required to only ride on infrastructure that all the other vehicles have throttles / gas pedals, etc.

 

[drodg]

We were talking to a guy who was nice about it, and said there were people that patrol the trail with a vest on of some kind, and he said that they can be pretty nasty was his way of putting it.
I just didn't want to cause any trouble, who knows, maybe that are like Barney, or something ,and carry tasers, blasting senior citizens on them ### electric bycycles.
I have sent a email to the Nobel county parks.
I guess they have plans to connect to other trails in the future, so will the user need to stop and walk their ebicycle 14 miles on the fishing line trail to get to the next trail.
We ride a trail by Shipshewana Indiana, the pumpkin vine trail, their sighn reads class 1 and 2 bicycles allowed Speed limit 15.Pretty simple.

I live in Indiana and I believe all state parks are E bike friendly. I know in NW Indiana there are no restrictions for E MTBs. Michigan is another story.

 

[E biker]

I have gotten a email back from the Nobel county parks department, that stated ebicycles Are Allowed, in fact he wrote in the email his wife uses a ebicycle.
Just a misunderstanding I guess from the beginning, so we are probably going to try this trail sometime, with a copy of the email in my pocket.

 

[AHicks]

I live in Indiana and I believe all state parks are E bike friendly. I know in NW Indiana there are no restrictions for E MTBs. Michigan is another story.

I'm a resident of SE Mi. and live next door to a large state park. I can share that although we are NOT supposed to be on some dedicated BMX trails with our E-bikes (not a place I want to ride anyway), but anywhere else I've gone, to include the MetroParks, has been issue free. State park rangers are fine with us being there....

 

[drodg]

I'm a resident of SE Mi. and live next door to a large state park. I can share that although we are NOT supposed to be on some dedicated BMX trails with our E-bikes (not a place I want to ride anyway), but anywhere else I've gone, to include the MetroParks, has been issue free. State park rangers are fine with us being there....

Thanks for sharing that.

 

[John from Connecticut]

The debate of e-bikes being restricted has been going on forever. I have one simple question....

Has any e-biker reading this post ever been stopped or restricted by law enforcement
while riding safely and at an appropriate speed on a trail marked 'No motor vehicles' etc?

I'm not talking about "I have a friend who knows someone who said they saw someone that......".
I'm talking about you ! Have you ever been stopped ?

I can wait...

My guess is, in the real world this subject is almost irrelevant, but makes for great blog posts.

John