CCS vs RCS -- 650W vs 750W -- Narrow vs Wide Battery

[dean1]

Hello from Los Angeles, Juiced fans,

This is kind of a thinking-out-loud post. I plan on replacing my 5-year old Prodeco Phantom X (https://electricbikereview.com/prodecotech/phantom-x/) and have narrowed my choice down to the CCS or RCS. What are the real differences, besides the fat tires?

The specs and descriptions give different values for the meat and potatoes

CCS - 650W
RCS - 750W - but they seem like the same motor in product descriptions

CCS - Narrow format 12.8A battery (I think I read a post mentioning its on the wide mount?)
CCS - Wide format 13A battery (yes, both batteries are mentioned as std in specs and options)
RCS - Wide format 13A battery

The shopping cart options for CCS have 12.8A standard, upgradable to the wide format 48/19.2 and 52/21. The specs mention 48/13 std for CCS, just like it does for the RCS.

I am leaning toward the CCS due to its step-thru frame option -- and its about 14 pounds lighter, but I am flexible enough to go for the diamond frame RCS if these differences are meaningful. And the fat tires may come in handy sometimes. On the other hand, it seems that the RCS should be more expensive than the CCS if these physical differences are real

So, are these power spec differences meaningful? What say you?

Thanks!

 

[philerooski]

As far as power is concerned... I tried to find the source, but Juiced posted either here or on their FB page that the 52V RCS will accelerate off the line a bit faster than the 52V CCS. It didn't sound like there was a meaningful difference for the 48V battery packs.

 

[Asher]

I say the CCS, which I own.

* If you use your ebike a lot for urban trips, you're going to be walking your bike in tight spaces, and more weight will strain you. You can easily get caught by surprise and have the bike falling towards you, when dismounted, and it will be harder to catch and recover the heavier it is. The Dutch have seen deaths from elderly on ebikes increase, and falling off heavy bikes may be a factor. I don't know you, but if flexibility is such an issue that you're considering a step through, then a heavy bike should be a concern as well.

https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-ac...an-bij-dodelijke-verkeersongevallen~b50c00f8/

* More weight = less range
* Limited to no slick tire selection for use on roads.
* Looks like the RCS doesn't have full coverage fenders that cover the tire sides at all.

You can also get wider tires for the CCS. One member said 2.15" Almotions would fit both wheels easily; 2.35" Big Apple or G-One Speeds would fit the front, and possibly the rear.

Batteries should all be interchangeable.

As for diamond vs step, diamond should be lighter and/or stronger, and you may end up adjusting to the diamond - or not. Can't really advise without knowing more.

I can't help thinking fat tire bikes are a toy unless your intent is to use them off-road. But people like toys, and better a fat tire bike than a fat pickup truck tailgating me (has happened to me multiple times).

 

[Chris Hammond]

As far as power is concerned... I tried to find the source, but Juiced posted either here or on their FB page that the 52V RCS will accelerate off the line a bit faster than the 52V CCS. It didn't sound like there was a meaningful difference for the 48V battery packs.

Actually, that comparison was a 52 V RCS vs a 48 V CCS.
I just got my CCS with the 52 V battery. FWIW, the 650W motor on the CCS is pulling ~950 to 1000W in S mode with moderate or higher pedal effort.
I would base my decision more on the intended use than any other subtle differences between them. If you have a need for a fat bike then go with the RCS, if not, but you might like it, then thats fine too. However, if you really are just planning on higher speeds/ longer distance commuting, then the CCS is better suited.

 

[dean1]

Thanks for the input. I went to order a CCS with 12.8A battery believing it would be shipping this month per web site, but once in cart the date showed mid June. I guess that means its not the wide batteries causing the delays.

@Asher I'm almost 5-7 with a 28/29" inseam. My 2013 Prodeco has a 19" frame with a 33" min seat height (with gel pad). I have to tilt the bike down to step over it. Its doable but a PIA sometimes. The standing height is 30" making standing on 2 flat feet without getting off uncomfortable. The Med RCS is much better, but I think the CCS step-thru standing height gives it the edge over the RCS. JB is about 3 hours away so there is still time for a reality check.

@Chris Hammond My plan is to use it mostly for errands and joy rides. I do a lot of local hiking and thought it would be fun to get the bike on some of the tamer trails, hence the attraction to the fat version. Trails are miserable on my Prodeco due to the weight of hub + rear battery. I'll just upgrade the CCS tires to something fatter with knobbies to make it a hybrid (if std tires are lousy on dirt).

My master plan is to start with the small battery (which is much more powerful than the Prodeco 38.4v/9a) and then in a year or two get the 52v.

Still curious why the CCS is same price as RCS. Seems RCS should be a little more given the specs of each

 

[TForan]

I say the CCS, which I own.


I can't help thinking fat tire bikes are a toy unless your intent is to use them off-road. But people like toys, and better a fat tire bike than a fat pickup truck tailgating me (has happened to me multiple times).

I use mine to travel around on rough roads and the fat tires help immensely on tore up streets. Plus a boatload of power. Here's my toy.

Every doubter who rides it , loves it. Try one if you get a chance.

 

[Asher]

Will do . Just installed a semi-fat tire like you have, G-One Speed 2.35". Ebikes are definitely getting wider tires, and with a good tire, I see little to no downside. Rolling resistance is the same or less, you can run at lower pressures which means higher speeds are more comfortable.

 

[Chris Hammond]

My plan is to use it mostly for errands and joy rides. I do a lot of local hiking and thought it would be fun to get the bike on some of the tamer trails, hence the attraction to the fat version. Trails are miserable on my Prodeco due to the weight of hub + rear battery. I'll just upgrade the CCS tires to something fatter with knobbies to make it a hybrid (if std tires are lousy on dirt).

Ok, I just want to make sure you are aware of the advantage mid-drive motors have in trail riding on slow steep climbs. Mid-drives deliver power through the chain to the rear wheel, thus they can take advantage of the gearing on the bike to stay efficient (cool) at any speed. If your trails are very steep for very long, I recommend looking to a mid-drive. Now, if your trails are mild with no long steep climbs, the CCS should work fine. That said, your plan for fatter knobby tires is probably not realistic for the CCS. If you removed the fenders, it will clear some space, and the front fork will fit a significantly larger tire. The rear is another story, the clearance between the chainstays is limited, and I highly doubt anything wider than 50mm or 2" will fit.

Since you are not planning on long distance rides, I would go with the RCS. It will allow you to explore the joy riding/ trail experience better, and will be just as capable as a CCS for running errands. The only disadvantage to the RCS is the extra weight on the trails, but the CCS is no lightweight by any means.

I would also suggest you just go for the 19.2Ah battery up front, if you are willing to wait. I'm guessing that would eliminate your desire to upgrade the battery in a couple of years and save you a lot of money overall.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I'm almost 5-7 with a 28/29" inseam.

This would be a great bike for you. The sizing is perfect and it will be a quite capable all-rounder.

Xduro Hardnine 6.0

 

[dean1]

Well, I have just noticed in the fine print that the wide format battery is not compatible with the CCS step-thru model. Thus there is no battery upgrade path. RCS is back on the top of the list, for now!

@Ravi Kempaiah There are a couple Haibike dealers near me and checked out the 2017 models on sale. The plethora of mid-drives out there is what got me looking again. Nice bikes and prices but I like the JB features for me.

 

[Chuck E. Cheese]

Thanks for the input. I went to order a CCS with 12.8A battery believing it would be shipping this month per web site, but once in cart the date showed mid June. I guess that means its not the wide batteries causing the delays.

@Asher I'm almost 5-7 with a 28/29" inseam. My 2013 Prodeco has a 19" frame with a 33" min seat height (with gel pad). I have to tilt the bike down to step over it. Its doable but a PIA sometimes. The standing height is 30" making standing on 2 flat feet without getting off uncomfortable. The Med RCS is much better, but I think the CCS step-thru standing height gives it the edge over the RCS. JB is about 3 hours away so there is still time for a reality check.

@Chris Hammond My plan is to use it mostly for errands and joy rides. I do a lot of local hiking and thought it would be fun to get the bike on some of the tamer trails, hence the attraction to the fat version. Trails are miserable on my Prodeco due to the weight of hub + rear battery. I'll just upgrade the CCS tires to something fatter with knobbies to make it a hybrid (if std tires are lousy on dirt).

My master plan is to start with the small battery (which is much more powerful than the Prodeco 38.4v/9a) and then in a year or two get the 52v.

Still curious why the CCS is same price as RCS. Seems RCS should be a little more given the specs of each

The website's delivery estimates have proven to more than a bit ambitious. If you do decide to order one, you should be prepared to wait two or three months. I know it sounds cynical, but that seems to be their MO.

 

[dean1]

I decided on the CCS and ordered the medium step-thru last night. Deciding factors were: easy to hop on and off bike, esp in tight places, compared to my prodeco I am sure it will be faster for longer range, relatively light and easier to hoist onto a rack. Runners up were from FLX, Biktrix and iZip.

If I ever get the to the JB warehouse before shipping I will try the diamond frame and possibly switch models

While I wait I'll spruce up my dusty Prodeco and sell it or make it a "guest bike."

Thanks everyone for all the thoughts

 

[Reid]

I decided on the CCS and ordered the medium step-thru last night. Deciding factors were: easy to hop on and off bike, esp in tight places, compared to my prodeco I am sure it will be faster for longer range, relatively light and easier to hoist onto a rack. Runners up were from FLX, Biktrix and iZip.

If I ever get the to the JB warehouse before shipping I will try the diamond frame and possibly switch models

While I wait I'll spruce up my dusty Prodeco and sell it or make it a "guest bike."

Thanks everyone for all the thoughts

I will have a pair of 2.35" wide Schwalbe G-One Speed tires in a week and will let you know if this size will fit the rear of a CCS. We know beyond doubt it works fine in the front, thanks to Asher! Well, he has a different fork there, but....I know it will fit my CCS fork!

Agreeing too with your choice of the medium step through. I do think I would have been better off getting that, or a medium diamond frame, because I can always raise the seat post. And the lower top tube, the easier it may be to mount or to straddle a bike...to let it be tried out by others.