Can we change the culture?

[Dallant]

A gun does make you righter'r

My reasoning is it might help you remain alive.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Bottom line is that there are jerks everywhere globally, and there always have been. Humans will fight to prove they’re right and always have. It’s honestly the only reason I ponder carrying a gun these days.

My $0.02

Using a firearm safely is a highly perishable skill. You need a lot of hours of training to acquire the reflexes and quite a bit of continuous training to keep those reflexes. If your hope is to use a firearm in a high-stress confrontation (e.g. a hostile encounter with a person who is threatening your life) you'll need even more training.

If you aren't willing to put in the hours you are just endangering yourself and others.

Please, back to the topic.

 

[Lar]

Bottom line is that there are jerks everywhere globally, and there always have been. Humans will fight to prove they’re right and always have. It’s honestly the only reason I ponder carrying a gun these days.

With concealed carry you (3rd person) will avoid those pissing contests with a passion more so than if you weren't carrying knowing what it could escalate to if things get out of control.

 

[Mkaiju]

Scary thread (sort of), never even occurred to me someone might have a problem with someone else's bike choice. Seems like a childish and stupid attitude.

I was in a really bad accident 20 years ago and had to learn to walk again, and it took years to properly walk again. I was told I couldn't ride a bike anymore, and when I did try it really hurt because of the hunched over forward position putting pressure on the exact section of my back that was injured in the accident. (upper back inbetween the shoulder blades; crushed 3 disks.)

Now I'm getting ready to get an ebike (tomorrow), where I can sit back comfortably, have pedal assist, and if I need it a throttle,.. because of ebikes I'll be able to ride a bike again after 2 decades of not being able to. And I'll finally be able to ride with my wife and kids which I'm excited to do.

If someone has a problem with that I reckon that's their problem, not mine. I'm just glad to finally be able to ride a bike again.

Seems very strange to me that anyone would try to dictate the kind of bike another person rides. What a selfish and immature attitude to assume everyone should think just like 'you'.

 

[ruffruff]

Couple years ago we rented Rad bikes for a weekend to see what the buzz was all about.
Riding down the tar trail outside of town a couple miles, a hardcore guy in the full outfit starts screaming at us!
He is calling us every name in the book, every swear word, it would have made a sailor blush.

He never stopped but just kept cursing as he rode by.
There was a young family stopped at the rest area a little ways away and they couldn't believe it. I felt bad their young kids had to hear it.

 

[RunForTheHills]

At some point, when every other bike on the road is an ebike, it will take too much energy for them to be angry with everyone on an ebike.

 

[Catalyzt]

With concealed carry you (3rd person) will avoid those pissing contests with a passion more so than if you weren't carrying knowing what it could escalate to if things get out of control.

Interesting. That might be true for some folks, I certainly wish it was true for me, but my experience has been exactly the opposite. I did carry a firearm in a moving vehicle exactly once because there were credible reports of sporadic, but very violent, rioting near where I had to work. I saw some scary-looking people, we stared at each other and gunned our engines, and I felt more likely to escalate, not less. I never repeated the experiment. I can get in quite enough trouble in my car without weapons!

This is a contentious issue, but it has got me thinking: Is this a cultural thing about acoustic bikes, or is it about road rage? I think there's some overlap, but when someone shouts, spits, races, or cuts you off, that fits the profile for road rage, and I think the same principles generally apply, though tactics need to be adapted-- you both have less physical protection, but also less likelihood of weapons being involved.

I had a long battle with road rage, and I think part of what it started it was an earlier battle-- between acoustic cyclists and cab drivers-- in New York City in the 1970s, when 'road' or, as we called them, 'touring' and 'racing' bikes, became popular on the street. Cabbies started it, but riders definitely escalated, yours truly included. I screamed, banged on roofs, and led cabs on short chases ending in one-way streets. At a certain point, it didn't matter who started it or who was "right" -- I was just a habitual asshole. And before long, that's kind of how I was behind the wheel, too.

And that habit was very hard to unlearn. (As Mr. Coffee observed, skill at using firearms or any other form of combat is usually the opposite-- very hard to maintain, except, of course, for law enforcement or military who have so many years of training that it does stick. For the rest of us, these skills are not 'like riding a bike.')
When I was in clinical training, I quickly realized that I couldn't be a street-racing, profanity-screaming psychotherapist. I'm very grateful for the patience-- and good sense of humor-- of my long-suffering supervisor, therapist, and colleagues, because I'm a different guy on the road today, though I'll always have to be careful.

One thing that helps when I have a rare obnoxious encounter on my bike or in my car: I remind myself that I don't know what's going on with the other person. Maybe their daughter has cancer, maybe they just got fired. But even if not, I think about how miserable it is to walk around with that much anger. Hate to sound like a headshrinker, but if some roadie spits at us, is it really about our e-bikes? How does that guy get along with his wife, his kids? Can he enjoy a little league game or a few beers with his buddies without fearing he'll wind up in the back of a police car? It's a shitty way to live, and I know that because I've lived it-- and I've had people who lived that way in my office.

When I focus on that, I'm less likely to get angry. And when I'm not angry, I make better decisions-- even if in the very rare situation where I might have to defend myself.

 

[Lar]

Interesting. That might be true for some folks, I certainly wish it was true for me, but my experience has been exactly the opposite. I did carry a firearm in a moving vehicle exactly once because there were credible reports of sporadic, but very violent, rioting near where I had to work. I saw some scary-looking people, we stared at each other and gunned our engines, and I felt more likely to escalate, not less. I never repeated the experiment. I can get in quite enough trouble in my car without weapons!

This is a contentious issue, but it has got me thinking: Is this a cultural thing about acoustic bikes, or is it about road rage? I think there's some overlap, but when someone shouts, spits, races, or cuts you off, that fits the profile for road rage, and I think the same principles generally apply, though tactics need to be adapted-- you both have less physical protection, but also less likelihood of weapons being involved.

I had a long battle with road rage, and I think part of what it started it was an earlier battle-- between acoustic cyclists and cab drivers-- in New York City in the 1970s, when 'road' or, as we called them, 'touring' and 'racing' bikes, became popular on the street. Cabbies started it, but riders definitely escalated, yours truly included. I screamed, banged on roofs, and led cabs on short chases ending in one-way streets. At a certain point, it didn't matter who started it or who was "right" -- I was just a habitual asshole. And before long, that's kind of how I was behind the wheel, too.

And that habit was very hard to unlearn. (As Mr. Coffee observed, skill at using firearms or any other form of combat is usually the opposite-- very hard to maintain, except, of course, for law enforcement or military who have so many years of training that it does stick. For the rest of us, these skills are not 'like riding a bike.')
When I was in clinical training, I quickly realized that I couldn't be a street-racing, profanity-screaming psychotherapist. I'm very grateful for the patience-- and good sense of humor-- of my long-suffering supervisor, therapist, and colleagues, because I'm a different guy on the road today, though I'll always have to be careful.

One thing that helps when I have a rare obnoxious encounter on my bike or in my car: I remind myself that I don't know what's going on with the other person. Maybe their daughter has cancer, maybe they just got fired. But even if not, I think about how miserable it is to walk around with that much anger. Hate to sound like a headshrinker, but if some roadie spits at us, is it really about our e-bikes? How does that guy get along with his wife, his kids? Can he enjoy a little league game or a few beers with his buddies without fearing he'll wind up in the back of a police car? It's a shitty way to live, and I know that because I've lived it-- and I've had people who lived that way in my office.

When I focus on that, I'm less likely to get angry. And when I'm not angry, I make better decisions-- even if in the very rare situation where I might have to defend myself.

Yeah I don't get road rage in fact in that type scenario if the other person gets my goat that's a lose IMO on the other hand if I drive off laughing at the other person that's a win.

Also you can't use deadly force in that scenario if you can safely leave if you do you're committing a crime.. ya know

 

[ruffruff]

That's pretty much how I look at it too. How shitty does your life have to be to get so upset about someone's bike riding style!

 

[ruffruff]

I thought about getting C&C but then I think, even you are justified, shooting someone is gonna ruin you day!

 

[6zfshdb]

Couple years ago we rented Rad bikes for a weekend to see what the buzz was all about.
Riding down the tar trail outside of town a couple miles, a hardcore guy in the full outfit starts screaming at us!
He is calling us every name in the book, every swear word, it would have made a sailor blush.

He never stopped but just kept cursing as he rode by.
There was a young family stopped at the rest area a little ways away and they couldn't believe it. I felt bad their young kids had to hear it.

My brother and I had a strangely similar incident a few years back when riding our conventional bikes on the paved Western Maryland Rail Trail. We were stopped on the shoulder of the trail when a group of riders in full costume from a local bike club came roaring by. They were practicing for a race by drafting each other doing in excess of 25 mph while taking up the entire trail. The leader began screaming that same expletive laden rhetoric as they approached! One rider in the middle of the pack actually flipped us off as he whizzed by!

This broke three trail rules. Racing is not allowed, the speed limit is 15 mph and pedestrians have the right of way. We weren't blocking the trail and were riding conventional bikes, not e-bikes. None of it made any difference to this group.

It appears this type of rider has a sense of superiority and feels he owns the trail to the exclusion of everyone else. In this case, it had nothing to do with e-bikes. I get the impression they would have reacted in a similar way had they come upon some poor soul in a wheelchair!

 

[RunForTheHills]

My brother and I had a strangely similar incident a few years back when riding our conventional bikes on the paved Western Maryland Rail Trail. We were stopped on the shoulder of the trail when a group of riders in full costume from a local bike club came roaring by. They were practicing for a race by drafting each other doing in excess of 25 mph while taking up the entire trail. The leader began screaming that same expletive laden rhetoric as they approached! One rider in the middle of the pack actually flipped us off as he whizzed by!

This broke three trail rules. Racing is not allowed, the speed limit is 15 mph and pedestrians have the right of way. We weren't blocking the trail and were riding conventional bikes, not e-bikes. None of it made any difference to this group.

It appears this type of rider has a sense of superiority and feels he owns the trail to the exclusion of everyone else. In this case, it had nothing to do with e-bikes. I get the impression they would have reacted in a similar way had they come upon some poor soul in a wheelchair!

'Roid rage. It has got to be the PED's they take to be competitive in cycling these days. It is a sport full of cheaters.

 

[linklemming]

And maybe your friend wasn't jealous of your expensive ebike... Maybe he just made up his own mind of what he wants to do. But you thrive on being right, admired and watched so it's no wonder you came to that conclusion.

Thanks for that statement, Good to know Im not the only one with that observation.

Im guessing you will be banned from the JW club

 

[Gionnirocket]

Thanks for that statement, Good to know Im not the only one with that observation.

Im guessing you will be banned from the JW club

I think other than the few like minded, most observe the same.

You probably missed my best post on the JW club thread as it was quickly reported/removed... and though I've been told many times that I am on the ignore list...we know ego is what it is.
I thought I may possibly be banned by the moderators for that post, but it was so true, deserved and funny I think they gave me a pass
Anywho... I don't take much on here that seriously.

 

[Lar]

Anywho... I don't take much on here that seriously.

^^^ Wise man once said...

 

[kmccune]

You're right, Joe.

Yet, I'm thinking "pepper spray." Not as a first strike option, mind you, but for Plan B. This kind of person has already shown themselves to be unpredictable.

Strained lemon juice in a squirt gun might work( check and see if it has enough range) for the tobacco chewers( pretty certain there may be a few among us) a shot of"ambeer"* in the eyes will keep a perp occupied until you can get away{ just saying-it really burns}
* "Ambeer" another name for "tobacco juice".

 

[kmccune]

Luckily, I had no bad encounter with another brother cyclist. Typically, meeting an active cyclist on the opposite side of the road, we both exchange a greeting by raising a hand. It happened to me to talk to other cyclists at the rests and they were typically in awe and jealous.

Yet, something funny happened two days ago. I was passing a village at some 30 km/h and an ancient woman riding her bicycle on the opposite started shouting something I could not hear because of the wind. I immediately slowed down and asked "What gets?" She became stone-silent Perhaps she thought she saw some Beelzebub or was not right in her head. Couple minutes before, a car driver on the opposite was honking at me. I started wondering perhaps I was on fire or had nosebleed I hadn't noticed?!

What I don't do is I'm never overtaking an active cyclist riding at good speed. Not competing. Not in hurry. It is not my virtue my bike has a motor. I did it three times after I bought my first e-bike but grew up mentally since.

P.S. The fastest village dogs cannot run faster than 30 km/h but they can run long A U.S. Class 1 e-bike is good enough and the Class 3 will outrun most of dogs.

Seen some fast "Irish Setters", Brother had a "Heinz 57" Dog, who was an 'Ultra Marathoner" His toenails were worn to nothing and He had distance and speed built in( In memory of "Tigger") "Tigger" finally wore His shoulder joints out.
Our dear Neighbor and Friend( 83 yrs young) lost His Freind of 10 years("Tracker" a great little Beagle) He is pretty tore up, please say a prayer for "Berkly" and "Tracker".

 

[tomjasz]

You need a lot of hours of training to acquire the reflexes and quite a bit of continuous training to keep those reflexes.

THIS!!! FFS, CCW carries tremendous responsibility. Without all the training and muscle memory development a n00b CCW scares me more than those we're trying to protect ourselves from.

 

[Mkaiju]

seems like if you're that scared of another bicyclist accosting you a can of pepper spray would work just fine.

 

[Lar]

THIS!!! FFS, CCW carries tremendous responsibility. Without all the training and muscle memory development a n00b CCW scares me more than those we're trying to protect ourselves from.

That's true and in most cases those type persons need the protection most.