Can I Ditch the Car? Speed Commuter with Some Cargo Needs

[reluctantsuburban]

Hi All,

I am new to the forum and have been browsing for several weeks. Lots of great info here, albeit somewhat overwhelming! I would love some input on my situation. I will try to be brief while providing the necessary details!

My wife and I pulled the trigger this month on a minivan. This takes care of all of our major family transportation needs, as well as gives us a vehicle for any major hauling or road trips. I have long itched to be a one car family and bike commuter, and I think an e-bike may finally put that into reach. My ultimate goal would be to get a bike that covers my individual needs sufficiently so that I can sell my current car, relying on the minivan when needed. Up to this point, my commute is a little too long and hot to do with just my own two legs as power. Another thing that would make this a true car replacement would be the ability to zip around town faster than I can on my current ride (described below).

I am a 28 year old, 6'1", 165 lb man living in the Dallas, TX area. I currently do a mixed commute of biking 2 miles to the train station, taking my bike onto the train and riding into downtown, and then riding 2 miles from the train to the office, for a total bike distance of 4 miles each way. The commute takes me 50 minutes door to door. I commute this way 3-4 days a week, and have been doing so since January to see if I can really stick with it in all types of weather. I've now experienced all of the temperature variations and think I can justify investing in a nicer bike.

In a car it's a little over 17 miles one way, sticking to just trails it is closer to 20. Dallas does not have good bike infrastructure and does not have good quality roads, so I think if I ever want to commute the whole way on bike, I will be taking the longer path of 20 miles on trails (cement).

One thing that has kept me from commuting 5 days a week (aside from my own laziness) is that I work for a laundry company, and one of our employee benefits is that they wash our clothes for us! So one day a week, I haul in a ~30lb sack of clothes. I can't do it on the current bike set up, specifically taking it onto the train--it's too much to manage the bike and sack. If I were able to ride on trails, maybe some sort of box and bungee or trailer would suffice. Or, with a better cargo set up, maybe the train could work. Open to suggestions!

My current commuter is a Giant Via 1 (pictured below). I like the more upright riding posture and the internally geared hub has been fun as a change of pace. It is a decent bike suited to my current situation of mixed commuting, but the tires are too thin, the wheels go out of true regularly, and it isn't very fast for rides around town. It has served this season well, but I don't think it's a forever fit.

I am looking for a commuter set up that allows me to bike the 20 mile one way commute (with a charge at the office), at a pace that allows me to keep my current 50 minute door to door commute while hauling a 30lb load (or some other creative solution that I'm sure someone will suggest!--one coworker already mentioned to me, if I'm biking in every day, I could split it into two 15 lb loads). In the event of bad weather or I'm not feeling up to it, I would love to still be able to take this bike onto the train. That seems to mean no cargo bike for weight and length reasons (I carry the bike into the train car; there are no racks to load it into). I have a Burley to haul my kids (2), but would be interested in the bike being able to accommodate a child's seat, if possible.

My ideal budget is $2k. If I am truly able to sell my car and replace it with this bike, then I could go higher. The only thing that stops me, initially, is the chance that a future job change could make the commute unreasonable. I am not looking to change jobs, but the possibility makes me wary.

My (perceived) needs [perceived because I have never done a 20 mile commute one way, so what do I really know!]:

• Battery capable of 40 miles on a single charge with ~200 lb total (including load and rider weight)
• Top Speed of 28 mph (thinking this because faster means I can get close to my 50 minute time)
• Disc Brakes
• Fenders
• Integrated Lights
• Rear rack and cargo solution for 30lb sack + change of clothes + Lunch (my current set up is Topeak rear rack and trunk bag)
• Light enough to lift onto the train car as a back-up solution (60lb absolute max, is my guess)
• Suspension of some kind? (historically I have avoided this for the sake of speed, but doesn't seem to be a consideration with an ebike)

Models I have looked at:

• iZip ProTour
• Magnum Metro +
• Surface 604 Shred
• Juiced CCS

Questions:

• Can I realistically accomplish this very flat commute in 50 minutes or less?
• Do I need full suspension if I am going at or near the max speed? Just seat suspension? Front fork? Roads are not great, but trails aren't so bad
• What size tires do I need (both diameter and width)?
• What average speed can I reasonably expect on a flat commute of 20 miles of trails with a 28mph top speed?
• What can I do for my cargo set up?
• Would the DIY route offer me any better, more custom solutions?
• What else am I not considering!

Again, sorry for the length. All posts I see inevitably have a poster comment back, give us more info, so I'm trying to avoid that Thanks so much in advance for your help.

 

[Justin Fischer]

If you're mechanically and electrically inclined, you could convert that bike DIY style and save money, definitely. I have a 52V Juiced CCS and commute 15 miles each way daily, takes me about 40 minutes. It's got suspension in the front, but I'm upgrading to a suspension seat post. Even with padded shorts, some of the bumps are painful at speed. Is there a place for you to change or shower at work?

 

[reluctantsuburban]

If you're mechanically and electrically inclined, you could convert that bike DIY style and save money, definitely. I have a 52V Juiced CCS and commute 15 miles each way daily, takes me about 40 minutes. It's got suspension in the front, but I'm upgrading to a suspension seat post. Even with padded shorts, some of the bumps are painful at speed. Is there a place for you to change or shower at work?

Thanks for the reply. The CCS seems to be a favorite around here, I can see why. What is your set up on the rear rack/cargo?

I can change pretty easily, but no shower for the moment. There is a gym nearby that I could pay $20 for a showers only membership, so that might be a summertime solution!

 

[reluctantsuburban]

If you're mechanically and electrically inclined, you could convert that bike DIY style and save money, definitely. I have a 52V Juiced CCS and commute 15 miles each way daily, takes me about 40 minutes. It's got suspension in the front, but I'm upgrading to a suspension seat post. Even with padded shorts, some of the bumps are painful at speed. Is there a place for you to change or shower at work?

Additionally, any particular threads on DIY that you would recommend? I have poked around a bit, but the language either gets very technical very fast, or the threads are a little older and the parts have since been replaced by newer versions.

 

[mrgold35]

Have you checked the route to see how much is dedicated bike path, share the road bike lanes, traffic lights, or detours to avoid traffic? Some local laws have restrictions for 28 mph Class III ebikes using dedicated walk/jog/bike only paths because of their top speed. You might have to slow down to under 20 mph when riding those?

I can take the road the entire way to work at 5:30 am for my 7 mile ride in and average almost 20 mph making almost every light and almost no traffic. I've even got up to 24-25 mph on Class II Radrover on the downhill runs on my work commute. Riding home, I can only do about 14-15 mph average because of having stop/wait at up to 6 lights for 1-5 minutes because of traffic. I also ride more sidewalks home because of too much traffic and no marked bike lanes on the share the road sections. You might only get up to 28 mph occasionally depending on road conditions?

 

[christob]

Don't forget to always take your charger with you both ways, or plan to keep a spare one at the office!
I can't speak first hand about any of the models you're considering, but I think that you could, given the very flat trip, accommodate your one-way commute even at that total load, giving the willingness to let the battery go as low as necessary on the one-way journey... although the 50 minute mark means you must maintain an average speed of 24MPH across the whole trip; that would be the bigger challenge, I suspect. So someone with experience in those bikes / battery combos may need to chime in on the exponential impact for battery drain, by fighting the air above 20MPH; ie, if the battery in fact could get you the full 20 miles at that sustained high speed, vs planning instead for your commute to be a 60-70 minute trip made at a less-draining average speed.
Personally, my worst battery duration experience was my second-ever office commute. Morning ride in (at higher Assist than I would use now) and the evening ride was fighting a strong, sustained, serious headwind for about 13 miles, using upper levels of Assist (#3, #4 -- of 5) a lot more to maintain 12-15MPH, along a route with one extended, challenging uphill and several more moderate hills... I only got a grand total of 20.1 miles out of the battery that day before it died -- about 2 miles from home.
All that was early on for me with my ebike -- I was heavier then (298 vs 255 now) and also much less fit (stamina particularly, but also less aware of gear changing, etc.) for it, having accumulated barely 180 miles over the 4 weeks prior to that day. The battery is a 48v 10.4ah.

 

[reluctantsuburban]

Have you checked the route to see how much is dedicated bike path, share the road bike lanes, traffic lights, or detours to avoid traffic? Some local laws have restrictions for 28 mph Class III ebikes using dedicated walk/jog/bike only paths because of their top speed. You might have to slow down to under 20 mph when riding those?

I can take the road the entire way to work at 5:30 am for my 7 mile ride in and average almost 20 mph making almost every light and almost no traffic. I've even got up to 24-25 mph on Class II Radrover on the downhill runs on my work commute. Riding home, I can only do about 14-15 mph average because of having stop/wait at up to 6 lights for 1-5 minutes because of traffic. I also ride more sidewalks home because of too much traffic and no marked bike lanes on the share the road sections. You might only get up to 28 mph occasionally depending on road conditions?

Good considerations here. I have checked on Google, but not have ridden the whole thing start to finish. I would estimate 80% is dedicated trail, 15% share the road bike lanes or neighborhood roads, 5% normal roads.

As for Class III restrictions, I have not received a straight-forward answer from City Parks and Rec employees as to what is allowed. My semi-educated guess is that technically Class III has no rule in place because ebikes are not common here. My gut is that if I ride safely around others, I won't draw too much attention. If it were an issue, I think going for a Class II bike might be a deal-breaker, as it would make my commute time closer to an hour. I can't justify that long of a commute with how little I get to see my kids!

 

[reluctantsuburban]

Don't forget to always take your charger with you both ways, or plan to keep a spare one at the office!
I can't speak first hand about any of the models you're considering, but I think that you could, given the very flat trip, accommodate your one-way commute even at that total load, giving the willingness to let the battery go as low as necessary on the one-way journey... although the 50 minute mark means you must maintain an average speed of 24MPH across the whole trip; that would be the bigger challenge, I suspect. So someone with experience in those bikes / battery combos may need to chime in on the exponential impact for battery drain, by fighting the air above 20MPH; ie, if the battery in fact could get you the full 20 miles at that sustained high speed, vs planning instead for your commute to be a 60-70 minute trip made at a less-draining average speed.
Personally, my worst battery duration experience was my second-ever office commute. Morning ride in (at higher Assist than I would use now) and the evening ride was fighting a strong, sustained, serious headwind for about 13 miles, using upper levels of Assist (#3, #4 -- of 5) a lot more to maintain 12-15MPH, along a route with one extended, challenging uphill and several more moderate hills... I only got a grand total of 20.1 miles out of the battery that day before it died -- about 2 miles from home.
All that was early on for me with my ebike -- I was heavier then (298 vs 255 now) and also much less fit (stamina particularly, but also less aware of gear changing, etc.) for it, having accumulated barely 180 miles over the 4 weeks prior to that day. The battery is a 48v 10.4ah.

Thanks for the reply! Looking at the numbers you put forward, it seems to me that 24PMH average seems like it will likely be unrealistic, but I do hope someone with one of these models can comment on their experience. I know I have seen a few threads for the Juiced CCS in particular where a rider was saying he spends a good portion of his commute at 30MPH, though I'm not sure how his route compares to mine.

That battery experience sounds like no fun--I hope to be able to avoid it! Seems like the batteries are getting larger all the time, so I am hopeful. Perhaps with a 60 minute commute and slightly lower PAS, I can make it work.

 

[Bruce Arnold]

I have a Juiced Bikes CCS with the no-longer-available 48 V 17.4 Ah battery. I can get between 50-60 miles on one charge if I keep my speed below 20 mph. I could do your 34 mile round trip at pretty much any speed without recharging at work. With the new CCX and its 52 V 19 Ah battery, it would be a snap. Charge at work if you want to, but you wouldn't need to. I'd be super envious of the CCX if I weren't so darn happy with my CCS. (I am a tad envious even so.)

There are plenty of options for carrying a load. I use a set of Wald folding baskets with canvas totes for grocery shopping etc. They are easily good for 50 lbs. I like the folding baskets because I always have them with me but they are not in the way when not being used. It's a brilliant design. If you put your laundry in a duffel, you could put one end in one basket, the other end in the other basket, and fold it over the top. Or do like I do with the canvas totes and carry a half-load twice a week.

My wife and I got our bikes in January. She has a Pedego City Commuter. We sold one of our cars to our daughter, who needed a good used car for a new job in a nearby city, and kept the Outback which fits all of our needs perfectly. It's been over 8 months since we started using just the one car and our ebikes and we have not regretted it one minute. The savings have already paid for my CCS and will pay for both bikes by sometime next summer. Plus our health is so much better.

There's a batch of CCX's being made right now. Tora has been putting up videos of being over in China supervising manufacture of the CCX, the Scramblers, the HyperFats, and the RipCurrents. Estimated availability for the CCX is October. Juiced is still selling the CCS, too, if you want a slightly less expensive bike, but if I were shopping today, I'd spend the extra money on a CCX. Like you say, if you can make do with just your van, it will pay for itself in short order.

 

[reluctantsuburban]

I have a Juiced Bikes CCS with the no-longer-available 48 V 17.4 Ah battery. I can get between 50-60 miles on one charge if I keep my speed below 20 mph. I could do your 34 mile round trip at pretty much any speed without recharging at work. With the new CCX and its 52 V 19 Ah battery, it would be a snap. Charge at work if you want to, but you wouldn't need to. I'd be super envious of the CCX if I weren't so darn happy with my CCS. (I am a tad envious even so.)

There are plenty of options for carrying a load. I use a set of Wald folding baskets with canvas totes for grocery shopping etc. They are easily good for 50 lbs. I like the folding baskets because I always have them with me but they are not in the way when not being used. It's a brilliant design. If you put your laundry in a duffel, you could put one end in one basket, the other end in the other basket, and fold it over the top. Or do like I do with the canvas totes and carry a half-load twice a week.

My wife and I got our bikes in January. She has a Pedego City Commuter. We sold one of our cars to our daughter, who needed a good used car for a new job in a nearby city, and kept the Outback which fits all of our needs perfectly. It's been over 8 months since we started using just the one car and our ebikes and we have not regretted it one minute. The savings have already paid for my CCS and will pay for both bikes by sometime next summer. Plus our health is so much better.

There's a batch of CCX's being made right now. Tora has been putting up videos of being over in China supervising manufacture of the CCX, the Scramblers, the HyperFats, and the RipCurrents. Estimated availability for the CCX is October. Juiced is still selling the CCS, too, if you want a slightly less expensive bike, but if I were shopping today, I'd spend the extra money on a CCX. Like you say, if you can make do with just your van, it will pay for itself in short order.

Hey @Bruce Arnold ! I have seen your posts in several places, so thank you very much for the info you have already given elsewhere. You have been more helpful to me than you know

That Wald basket looks great--do you need to do anything to get it attached to the existing rack on the CCS?

I have looked a bit at the CCX, it looks like a great bike. Viewing the specs here (https://www.juicedbikes.com/pages/compare-all-bikes), I do wonder if it is perhaps overkill for my needs, given that I can charge at work. Could you tell me any of the big benefits that I may be missing given my newness to the subject?

Last question--what is a reasonable top speed that you are able to achieve on the bike, and how long can you sustain it? I see many people post that after 20MPH, air resistance makes going faster exponentially more difficult.

 

[Justin Fischer]

I use a topeak rack and single pannier bag, but all I need to take is my coffee/breakfast/change of clothes. You might have a better time on r/ebikes if you want to DIY, they are extremely helpful over there. For my ride I usually average 20mph with reasonable low personal effort. After that you're going to be sweating unless you get a higher capacity battery and can charge it fully at work.

 

[reluctantsuburban]

I use a topeak rack and single pannier bag, but all I need to take is my coffee/breakfast/change of clothes. You might have a better time on r/ebikes if you want to DIY, they are extremely helpful over there. For my ride I usually average 20mph with reasonable low personal effort. After that you're going to be sweating unless you get a higher capacity battery and can charge it fully at work.

Awesome, thanks, Justin. I will check them out. I have previously cut myself off of Reddit for the sake of my personal productivity, but maybe it's time to open Pandora's Box, ha.

 

[Justin Fischer]

Awesome, thanks, Justin. I will check them out. I have previously cut myself off of Reddit for the sake of my personal productivity, but maybe it's time to open Pandora's Box, ha.

It's definitely a pandora's box. But I have personal subscriptions to r/ebikes, r/cycling, r/bikecammers, r/bikecommuting, etc. Not really enough content to waste a ton of time with, just some interesting stuff to me every day.

 

[indianajo]

I've lived without a working car for 9 years and I don't even have reliable electrical drive yet. My wife who keeps the car is often out of town so I buy my own groceries, supplies, building materials etc and haul them home on my bike. 50 lb load it typical. 8' boards or pipe etc will fit between my legs if tied to the handlebar and rack with string. I have a perimeter frame on top of my steel rack to I can tie down bulky items like TP, towels. or appliances.
Howver traffic here is nothing like Dallas. I was there in July, driving north on the Central Exp, looking at traffic at a standstill for 8 miles southbound frozen by an idiot that turned over a tank tractor-trailer on the ramp to the George Bush Exp. What a self centered idiot. We came back south from Parker via Allen Richardson Garland Mesquite and the Hawn Frwy escape to Athens, just as if we were riding a bicycle. I'd convert your current bike for $800 at first with a power wheel kit and a 17 or 20 AH battery, but I'm pretty handy, have a drill motor grinder and vise, and a terminal crimp tool. You may not be as handy, buying something may be more reliable. Definitely get your battery from a major like Luna, I don't know anybody alse selling kits in the US with their reputation. Of course if you buy a whole bike you get a total warrenty. Read through the brand threads before buying something, there seems to be a lot of posts about problems with some brands like Rad.
You may want a long frame cargo bike like a Surly Big Dummy, Extracycle, radwagon or yubabikes bodaboda, but they won't load easily in a train or bus. The extra length balences 50 lb loads so there is more weight on the front wheel, and IMHO, might prevent some of the accidents where I was thrown over the handlebars on a moutain bike due perhaps to the light loads on the front tire.
Best of luck living responsibly with less demand on the planet.

 

[reluctantsuburban]

I've lived without a working car for 9 years and I don't even have reliable electrical drive yet. My wife who keeps the car is often out of town so I buy my own groceries, supplies, building materials etc and haul them home on my bike. 50 lb load it typical. 8' boards or pipe etc will fit between my legs if tied to the handlebar and rack with string. I have a perimeter frame on top of my steel rack to I can tie down bulky items like TP, towels. or appliances.
Howver traffic here is nothing like Dallas. I was there in July, driving north on the Central Exp, looking at traffic at a standstill for 8 miles southbound frozen by an idiot that turned over a tank tractor-trailer on the ramp to the George Bush Exp. What a self centered idiot. We came back south from Parker via Allen Richardson Garland Mesquite and the Hawn Frwy escape to Athens, just as if we were riding a bicycle. I'd convert your current bike for $800 at first with a power wheel kit and a 17 or 20 AH battery, but I'm pretty handy, have a drill motor grinder and vise, and a terminal crimp tool. You may not be as handy, buying something may be more reliable. Definitely get your battery from a major like Luna, I don't know anybody alse selling kits in the US with their reputation. Of course if you buy a whole bike you get a total warrenty. Read through the brand threads before buying something, there seems to be a lot of posts about problems with some brands like Rad.
You may want a long frame cargo bike like a Surly Big Dummy, Extracycle, radwagon or yubabikes bodaboda, but they won't load easily in a train or bus. The extra length balences 50 lb loads so there is more weight on the front wheel, and IMHO, might prevent some of the accidents where I was thrown over the handlebars on a moutain bike due perhaps to the light loads on the front tire.
Best of luck living responsibly with less demand on the planet.

Thanks for the reply indianajo. You got to see the nightmare that is commuting in Dallas first-hand! That is a huge reason why a car-free life appeals to me. Even if it takes a little longer to get to the office, I'd rather do it on the bike.

I have just started the research into adding my own kit. My initial (apparently wrong) impression was that I could not convert an internally geared hub. Excited to read more on Luna!

 

[rich c]

Class 3 bikes do hit 28mph, but it takes a lot of energy. Both you and the battery. A rider is an aerodynamic brick, the energy usage goes up exponentially above 20mph. When you build a kit, you may get some help from the supplier if you buy from a quality supplier. If you go cheap like Amazon or eBay, you need electrical knowledge if something goes wrong. Even purchased bikes can be difficult to troubleshoot, and some suppliers just start shoving parts at you.

 

[indianajo]

You could put a powered wheel on the front, maintaining the IGH. You do have to weigh down the front to keep it from slipping. I put the battery on the front using a rack I built out of aluminum. A 1970's Huffy Savannah cruiser, built of steel. I can steer the bike with a 18 lb battery swinging with the wheel, but I like the front rack better on the yuba bodaboda that is attached to the frame and doesn't swing with the wheel.
I left Houston in 1980, in part because I was rear ended seven times. Last time I wasn't even braking, just following a lady who was gingerly steering around bricks in the road. The the mayor announced the city police weren't going to enforce traffic rules on the interstate. Only the DPS. I joined the Army (again).
I got one bad battery from Amazon (full refund) and another from e-bay (warrenty expired before I did a full test- it worked okay below 100 watts.) Bought a battery from luna at 2.3 X the price Friday, we'll see. They took a day to ship it, possibly charging and testing it in house.

 

[ebikemom]

There are also shops that do conversions, though don’t know if there’s one in your area...

 

[reluctantsuburban]

Class 3 bikes do hit 28mph, but it takes a lot of energy. Both you and the battery. A rider is an aerodynamic brick, the energy usage goes up exponentially above 20mph. When you build a kit, you may get some help from the supplier if you buy from a quality supplier. If you go cheap like Amazon or eBay, you need electrical knowledge if something goes wrong. Even purchased bikes can be difficult to troubleshoot, and some suppliers just start shoving parts at you.

Thanks for the input, Rich. I think if I went DIY I would definitely need to get a kit, as I am not very electrically knowledgeable.

 

[reluctantsuburban]

There are also shops that do conversions, though don’t know if there’s one in your area...

For something like this, would I need to approach an ebike shop to ask, or would any bike shop that has some selection of ebikes be able to help? Looking a little at electricbike-blog.com, it seems like a traditional bike shop should have the knowledge to convert a bike to an ebike, but I'm not sure if it's an odd request.