Can a battery have different cut off voltages?

[Gionnirocket]

Ohh, OK
I was just comparing Don's battery to my battery.
My battery is 48v 21ah with a 3 amp charger.
Maybe Das-Kit was keeping costs down with a 3 amp brick charger with no fan?

Yes /No.
It's still best to charge at the lowest current that is practical.
But sometimes maybe of course possibly... Yeah

 

[Nvreloader]

Ok Guys
Just got in, 3+hrs of riding, all throttle at about 10mph speed,
Batt #3 = 46.3v start/25% Display= ran it down to 5% (Disp) = 43.0V Meter,
Note: the display battery Icon was flashing on/off.

Did the same w Batt#4 = 47.2v start/38% Disp> down tp 3% Disp = 42.0V Meter
Display flashing off/on.

I could not feel any power while using throttle or peddling,
the last 1-1/2 mile was with the display shut off, gearing only,
one tired puppy going into the head wind...........LOL.

Your thoughts and suggestions..............
Thanks,
Don

 

[Gionnirocket]

Ok Guys
Just got in, 3+hrs of riding, all throttle at about 10mph speed,
Batt #3 = 46.3v start/25% Display= ran it down to 5% (Disp) = 43.0V Meter,
Note: the display battery Icon was flashing on/off.

Did the same w Batt#4 = 47.2v start/38% Disp> down tp 3% Disp = 42.0V Meter
Display flashing off/on.

I could not feel any power while using throttle or peddling,
the last 1-1/2 mile was with the display shut off, gearing only,
one tired puppy going into the head wind...........LOL.

Your thoughts and suggestions..............
Thanks,
Don

Take a hot shower and pour yourself a little drink.

 

[PCeBiker]

Did the same w Batt#4 = 47.2v start/38% Disp> down tp 3% Disp = 42.0V Meter
Display flashing off/on.

As a comparison, when I ran my battery down, the battery icon went down to 1 bar flashing then it went blank, the display voltage was reading 40 volts then 39 volts and the battery still didn't cut out.
I was running only throttle with no pedaling, but my display voltage apparently isn't accurate.
I didn't check it with a volt meter.

 

[Nvreloader]

Take a hot shower and pour yourself a little drink.

GR
I did that as soon as I got off this plastic box,
working on the second straight shot of JD and watching the local news.

Tomorrow appears to be another good day for a ride............LOL.
Got 2 batts 1&2 to take/test down to their limits, so I know.

Got to change the display back to volts reading, as it is spot on for accuracy.
Tia,
Don

 

[Nvreloader]

PC
What type and brand name are your Batt's?
Tia,
Don

 

[PCeBiker]

PC
What type and brand name are your Batt's?
Tia,
Don

The battery, charger, and display are all labeled Das-Kit.

I have a new 25ah battery and 4 amp charger on the way from @Jenny Mao
Her 48v 25ah Dorado battery and 4 amp charger are on sale right now for $600 USD with all shipping, taxes and duty paid.
She may have a battery that fits your ebike?

I also just installed a 25 amp KT controller and display that I have yet to test ride.

I'll see how my 21ah Das-Kit battery compares to @Jenny Mao 's battery.

My KT display is supposed to have an accurate volt meter, and it's got a Watt meter as well.

PS,.. @tomjasz has 2 of Jenny's batteries and he likes them.
@tomjasz is pretty hard to please especially when it comes to batteries.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Curious... Why are you riding (testing) all throttle? Is that what you normally do?
If not... I would test it as used.

 

[Gionnirocket]

PS,.. @tomjasz has 2 of Jenny's batteries and he likes them.
@tomjasz is pretty hard to please especially when it comes to batteries.

I know... miserable some_a_na_bitch!

 

[PCeBiker]

Curious... Why are you riding (testing) all throttle? Is that what you normally do?
If not... I would test it as used.

It's in the owners manual,..

I wanted to drain it as quickly as possible, so I didn't pedal.

Remember, I've got a Ni-Cad battery. lol
(NCM, Nickel, Cadmium, Magnesium)

PS,.. I just noticed that it says "no less than 42 volts", so I probably stopped at 42v ?
Maybe it was 41.9 volts that I went down to?
I remember driving circles around the block trying to kill the battery. Lol
I don't keep notes, and my memory kinda sucks.

 

[Gionnirocket]

It's in the owners manual,..

View attachment 149469

I wanted to drain it as quickly as possible, so I didn't pedal.

Remember, I've got a Ni-Cad battery. lol
(NCM, Nickel, Cadmium, Magnesium)

PS,.. I just noticed that it says "no less than 42 volts", so I probably stopped at 42v ?
Maybe it was 41.9 volts that I went down to?
I remember driving circles around the block trying to kill the battery. Lol
I don't keep notes, and my memory kinda sucks.

That flies in the face with everything that I've ever read about Li ion batteries.
The way I understand it... if you stayed between 70 - 30% it could last virtually indefinitely though not very useful.
In other words avoid both far ends of the batteries voltage range whenever practical.

If you haven't seen this...

E-Bike Battery Guide

This thread is dedicated for helping new E-bike owners to understand and maintain their batteries in the best possible way. There is a lot of confusion for any new E-bike owner as to how one should treat their batteries: Shop owners may say one thing, online resources may another thing, someone...

electricbikereview.com

I've read similarly countless times.
This website is an excellent source of information

Battery University

Battery University™ is a free educational website offering hands-on battery information.

batteryuniversity.com

BU-216: Summary Table of Lithium-based Batteries

BU meta description needed...

batteryuniversity.com

 

[PCeBiker]

That flies in the face with everything that I've ever read about Li ion batteries.

Yeah, I know.
I don't get it ??

Maybe it's the battery chemistry that requires an occasional full charge and drain of the battery?

I don't think that Et.Cycle could be so out to lunch with something so basic and important as proper battery maintenance?

Remember, I've got a Ni-Cad battery. lol
(NCM, Nickel, Cadmium, Magnesium)

I was wrong about that.

I don't keep notes, and my memory kinda sucks.

^^^ This

I checked the information that I could find about my e-bike and it's battery.
There is no EBR review of Et.Cycle but @Court just added an Et.Cycle forum.

My Et.Cycle T1000 is almost identical to the NCM Millano Plus, except that I've got 26"X4" Tires with wider forks and frame, and my T1000 has a different Fat motor which is unlabeled here in Canada. (because it's apparently a 750w motor that isn't legal. They just limit power to 500w with the controller.)




So my Das-Kit battery (used by NCM and Et.Cycle) is Lithium Nickel Cobalt and Manganese.

Perhaps this battery chemistry, which may be unique to Das-Kit, requires an occasional full charge and drain of the battery?

My battery is labeled Dorado by Reention but it has a Dehawk sticker on it.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Yeah, I know.
I don't get it ??

Maybe it's the battery chemistry that requires an occasional full charge and drain of the battery?

I don't think that Et.Cycle could be so out to lunch with something so basic and important as proper battery maintenance?


I was wrong about that.

^^^ This

I checked the information that I could find about my e-bike and it's battery.
There is no EBR review of Et.Cycle but @Court just added an Et.Cycle forum.

My Et.Cycle T1000 is almost identical to the NCM Millano Plus, except that I've got 26"X4" Tires with wider forks and frame, and my T1000 has a different Fat motor which is unlabeled here in Canada. (because it's apparently a 750w motor that isn't legal. They just limit power to 500w with the controller.)


View attachment 149535View attachment 149536View attachment 149537View attachment 149538View attachment 149539

So my Das-Kit battery (used by NCM and Et.Cycle) is Lithium Nickel Cobalt and Manganese.

Perhaps this battery chemistry, which may be unique to Das-Kit, requires an occasional full charge and drain of the battery?

My battery is labeled Dorado by Reention but it has a Dehawk sticker on it.

View attachment 149540

Anything is possible but I doubt it.
It would be very expensive to produce your own cells for a small ebike company... and then there's the question, why would you want to?
Look at the green chart I posted... it has all the current chemistries being used and they all recommend to avoid full charge cycles.
See if you can find the manufacturer/model of the cells... I would trust the manufacturer white paper

 

[PCeBiker]

See if you can find the manufacturer/model of the cells... I would trust the manufacturer white paper

I found this,..



When @Court reviewed the NCM Moscow Plus in 2019, he wrote that the battery chemistry is Nickel Cobalt and Manganese, with the "M" standing for Manganese.



That is apparently how NCM got its name.

My battery sticker says Dehawk L2.

I noticed this from your green chart, but there is no mention of Manganese.

The newest battery chemistry listed on the chart is from 2008.
Perhaps they have been working on new chemistries since then?


Leon Cycle, which sells NCM and Et.Cycle, is not responding to phone calls or emails, and it's REALLY hard to find any information on my ebike.
The specs are different on every website, and I still don't know what motor I have?
Apparently it's just a rebranded MXUS motor?

 

[Gionnirocket]

Samsung 26F MSDS

Samsung 26F Specification Sheet

 

[PCeBiker]

Samsung 26F MSDS

Samsung 26F Specification Sheet

Thanks @Gionnirocket

I checked out the specs and it looks like I have safe batteries.
They brutalized the cells and there was no fire or explosion.

So now I just have to wonder about charging and discharging my battery?

I think that I'll just follow the normal procedure and try to keep my battery between 20% and 80%, knowing that it's not a big deal to fully charge or discharge the battery.

My new controller allows me to set the low voltage cut-off from between 38v and 41.5v at ½ volt increments.

I think I'll set it at 41.5v to be on the happy side of battery longevity.
I can always set it lower if I run out of juice and need to get home.
My display allows me to adjust all the parameters. No computer interface necessary.

 

[PCeBiker]

I found it !!
It was at the university,..




It looks like a good cell chemistry without many tradeoffs?

But I still don't know what exactly is in my Das-Kit battery?
Every website lists my ebike differently.
Maybe Das-Kit is using different cells in more recent years ?

 

[Gionnirocket]

I found it !!
It was at the university,..


View attachment 149553View attachment 149554

It looks like a good cell chemistry without many tradeoffs?

But I still don't know what exactly is in my Das-Kit battery?
Every website lists my ebike differently.
Maybe Das-Kit is using different cells in more recent years ?

Good find.. It's an excellent website.
From what I've read... I don't see anything particularly different. It's specs are average for Li ion in general and I haven't read anything that it should be charged / discharged differently.

 

[PCeBiker]

Good find.. It's an excellent website.
From what I've read... I don't see anything particularly different. It's specs are average for Li ion in general

Here's the summary,..



Apparently, the best ratio is ⅓ each of Nickel, Cobalt, and Manganese, but Cobalt is rare and expensive so they are experimenting with reducing its relative quantity.

and I haven't read anything that it should be charged / discharged differently.

Yeah, I didn't see that either.
I'll just charge it the normal way, then it will be the same as my new battery.



I just got an email from @Jenny Mao and my battery was shipped yesterday.

I'm Excited !!




The USB port can power a pretty big fan,..

 

[Gionnirocket]

Jenny's on the block!