California tries to limit to 250 watt???

sg5y

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How absurd is this??? They can't do that if people bought 500 watt bikes before they changed the rule..no????Would anyone on this forum actually obey a new law like that? Another reason why so many people hate California.
I will ride my 750 wherever and whenever I want on the planet earth... whats the chance that that will pass? will Newsome sign that?
 
How absurd is this??? They can't do that if people bought 500 watt bikes before they changed the rule..no????Would anyone on this forum actually obey a new law like that? Another reason why so many people hate California.
I will ride my 750 wherever and whenever I want on the planet earth... whats the chance that that will pass? will Newsome sign that?
cool your jets if it did pas it would be a grandfather thing.
 
this is the inevitable result of the "we don't want any (even reasonable) regulations on ebikes, personal responsibility and enforcement will be enough" crowd. enforcement is very hard without licensing and insurance and registration, and you can basically buy anything you want at this point, manufacturers just put "*for use on private property only" in the fine print and sell away.

the result is kids riding e-motorcyles on sidewalks, adults riding e-motorcycles on trails, etc.

i doubt this will come to pass but of course any elected government has the right to control what kinds of vehicles people use on public roads and trails. if people even remotely followed the current rules, this wouldn't be an issue.
 
this is the inevitable result of the "we don't want any (even reasonable) regulations on ebikes, personal responsibility and enforcement will be enough" crowd. enforcement is very hard without licensing and insurance and registration, and you can basically buy anything you want at this point, manufacturers just put "*for use on private property only" in the fine print and sell away.

the result is kids riding e-motorcyles on sidewalks, adults riding e-motorcycles on trails, etc.

i doubt this will come to pass but of course any elected government has the right to control what kinds of vehicles people use on public roads and trails. if people even remotely followed the current rules, this wouldn't be an issue.
Over the last couple of weeks or so I commonly see a local kid on an e-motorcycle type machine. He's all over the sidewalks, while his buddy on a scooter is on the road.
The e-motorcycle has the pedals removed completely (if they were ever there).
Not that I wish harm or malice on anyone, but I'm kind of hoping the cops shut him down here (Canada). It's NOT a bicycle. I do NOT want to be associated with such behaviour.
I don't need my Class 1 experience to be screwed up by having these people lumped in to my category...
 
It takes 1000 w to get me & 60 lb groceries up several 6-12% hills. I have burnt up 3 750 watt motors, the first or second trip. 1000 w is now illegal in 41 states. I cannot buy a replacement for the one with a slipping clutch. On to a 7000 lb vehicle, dead dinosaur powered, a F150. Burn up the globe, fools!
Oh, yeah, I could gear down to 1 mph and ride a Bosch or Specialized. I don't have the patience to take 6 hours each way for my weekly grocery & mail run. I can't even keep the path straight at 1 mph. The 1000 w motors could maintain a scorching 8 mph average in hilly Clark Cty. Scandalous! 12 winding motors will only go 23 mph on the flat, but no legislature cares about that.
 
It takes 1000 w to get me & 60 lb groceries up several 6-12% hills. I have burnt up 3 750 watt motors, the first or second trip. 1000 w is now illegal in 41 states. I cannot buy a replacement for the one with a slipping clutch. On to a 7000 lb vehicle, dead dinosaur powered, a F150. Burn up the globe, fools!
Oh, yeah, I could gear down to 1 mph and ride a Bosch or Specialized. I don't have the patience to take 6 hours each way for my weekly grocery & mail run. I can't even keep the path straight at 1 mph. The 1000 w motors could maintain a scorching 8 mph average in hilly Clark Cty. Scandalous! 12 winding motors will only go 23 mph on the flat, but no legislature cares about that.
Works for me.
The way you run is OK by me. :)
 
Its very unlikely to be 250W peak, it will be the EU model of 250 continuous...whatever they can get away with till a child dies peak.

It will morph into gps speed and position geofencing, so will cars.

I did warn you of this many years ago, but you presumed it would never happen in the land of the free.

This London Janglish bruv video is probably impossible to understand for most Americans, but its actually quite a good insight into hiding or obeying from the law in the UK

Entertaining in a street way.
 
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How absurd is this??? They can't do that if people bought 500 watt bikes before they changed the rule..no????Would anyone on this forum actually obey a new law like that? Another reason why so many people hate California.
I will ride my 750 wherever and whenever I want on the planet earth... whats the chance that that will pass? will Newsome sign that?
I won’t get into Newsom… But if 250W is what’s being proposed as an absolutely limit, that is ridiculous. It’s good that there’s a Federal effort underway.

@Chargeride is 250 really the limit in Europe? And, by the way, what does continuous mean in terms of legislation. That’s nutz.
 
I won’t get into Newsom… But if 250W is what’s being proposed as an absolutely limit, that is ridiculous. It’s good that there’s a Federal effort underway.

@Chargeride is 250 really the limit in Europe? And, by the way, what does continuous mean in terms of legislation. That’s nutz.
I read the bill the other day. It starts by saying 750 watts peak for cargo bikes. "Peak" still sounds bad. That's one approach, though. Cargo bikes are longer and heavier, making them less appealing to juveniles.

I've read that 250 watts is a motor manufacturer's rating, certifying that it will produce 250 watts continuously without overheating. It may in fact be able to produce 750 watts continuously without overheating. Rating it at 250 makes it legal in Europe. I guess it would also discourage juvenile daredevils.
 
I read the bill the other day. It starts by saying 750 watts peak for cargo bikes. "Peak" still sounds bad. That's one approach, though. Cargo bikes are longer and heavier, making them less appealing to juveniles.

I've read that 250 watts is a motor manufacturer's rating, certifying that it will produce 250 watts continuously without overheating. It may in fact be able to produce 750 watts continuously without overheating. Rating it at 250 makes it legal in Europe. I guess it would also discourage juvenile daredevils.
I think that making complicated laws with carve outs for cargo bikes being allowed 750 watts just make these laws harder/impossible to enforce. Many police officers don't understand the current ebike laws.
 
I must of been prescient when I bought this old ebike last summer:
PXL_20260424_234310147.jpg
It's a Giant Twist Freedom DX W, 2010 I believe. It is such a slow, gutless thing, and was destined for my personal ebike museum to highlight how far we have come in ebike development. Now, I have found that the past is the future, and this bike might be destined to be my "only" ebike after the coming apocalypse. 😅
 
I think that making complicated laws with carve outs for cargo bikes being allowed 750 watts just make these laws harder/impossible to enforce. Many police officers don't understand the current ebike laws.
I think the bill proposes what can be manufactured or sold in California. Hmmm... if it passes, and I lived there, I wonder if I could order a hotter bike or controller from out of state...
 
I must of been prescient when I bought this old ebike last summer:
View attachment 209332
It's a Giant Twist Freedom DX W, 2010 I believe. It is such a slow, gutless thing, and was destined for my personal ebike museum to highlight how far we have come in ebike development. Now, I have found that the past is the future, and this bike might be destined to be my "only" ebike after the coming apocalypse. 😅
Nice bike!
 
Get involved. Email your reps. Call The New Wheel Electric Bike shop to find out the best wat to support their efforts. The proponents have a doctor wearing a lab coat pretending this will stop eMotos. The proposed law will not stop kids riding illegal electric motorcycles.

 
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AB 1557 does one very important thing: It goes after manufacturers and dealers who sell emotos and other non-compliant bikes as legal ebikes. If we'd had the will and enforcement tools to do that from the outset, we probably wouldn't be in this crazy backlash mesh.

AB 1557 also clarifies that the current 750W limit on motor power means PEAK power. We need that clarity.

Granted, electric motor power ratings are always tricky business. But in this context, peak power is as good a benchmark as any.

That's the good part of AB 1557. The rest is ignorant, ill-conceived crap. But I fully support SB 1187, which mainly just goes after the illegal "e-bike" trade.

SB 1187 is my senator's proposed bill. Asked her office to add the 750W clarification. We'll see.
 
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I just seconds ago closed a deal on a motor with support from me. He wants to install it himself. This last face to face meeting took two hours. He lives up on Mount Tam in Marin, CA and is 70-years-old with no throttle. 250W wouldn't do it for him. It is not that he wants to speed. He wants to climb and to do the trails of his youth.
My good friend has a converted steel Mundo cargo bike that is a 7-foot long kid and grocery hauler that replaced a second car, saving the planet and $12,000 per year. She also does not want to speed. She just wants to be able to clear an intersection without killing her and her kid.
A mom called a half-hour ago and said that her son's bicycle, a Talaria, needs brakes. I had to inform her that it is an illegal motorcycle, no one will touch.

1778196899145.png
 
The proponents have a doctor wearing a lab coat pretending this will stop eMotos. The proposed law will not stop kids riding illegal electric motorcycles.
Why didn't prohibitionists think of that argument? Kids are getting drunk on booze their parents buy for them. Therefore, only non-alcoholic beer (0.5%) should be legal.

The sponsor must not be taken seriously. She says 750 continuous, 1350 peak, is ambiguous. She says 250 continuous and 750 peak is not ambiguous. Is that electrical input or mechanical output? Continuous power is only the manufacturer's rating that the motor won't burn out at that power. It doesn't mean a continuous 251 or 1000 watts will overheat it. Peak power depends on the controller. Controllers can often be swapped out.

The doc says bicycles go 10 mph and e-bikes 30. He says current bicycle helmets should be outlawed because they won't protect you hitting a brick wall at 30. If staying down around 10 is vital, ape-hanger bars should be required, forcing riders to sit upright. Bicyclists should be required to dismount and walk their bikes down hills.

He complains about the acceleration of kids on e-bikes. An 80-pound kid will get more acceleration than a 250 pound adult. The only way to stop those darned kids from accelerating so fast, is to make them wear weight belts to bring them up to 250. it's for their safety!

A man and e-bike together could weigh more than 300 pounds. If the 750 watt limit is electrical, that could be 500 watts of mechanical power, or 2/3 horsepower, or 4.4 horsepower per ton. That would be like limiting a 3,000 pound car to 6.6 hp. The purpose of the bill seems to be to make street-legal e-bikes suitable for toys. Should cars be limited to the same engines as push mowers so kids can be given cars as toys?

The doc doesn't say how many of these juvenile injuries involve collisions with motor vehicles. NHSTA has found that motor vehicle speed has a huge effect on the likelihood of bicycle collisions and the severity of injuries. The Netherlands made bicycling much safer by reducing motor vehicle speed on streets open to cycles. I think it's 15 mph. The doc ought to be driving a car limited to 15.

My Abound is rated at 750 continuous and something like 1200 peak. Reviewers noted that it will handle a steep hill with a heavy rider and a heavy cargo. It has plenty of power for what I carry, up even steep off-road hills, but if I open the throttle with the back wheel off the ground, it goes only to 20.2 mph. I think that's how the motor is wound. Up to that speed, a motor will perform better than one wound for a higher speed.

My Radmission was advertised at 500 watts. On a hill, I was getting about 350. Radpower meant the controller would give it 500 watts of electrical power. My aftermarket controller gives it 25 amps, for a peak of about 1200 electrical and 800 mechanical. With the wheel off the ground, the throttle will take it to 27. That may mean the motor was wound for 20 mph with a 20 inch wheel, which is 27 with the 27 inch wheel on the bike. On braking tests, it would easily get me to 20 but poop out at 22, where air drag needs 1/3 more power.

If they want to keep kids from going 30, the issue is how fast a motor will spin. That's easy for a cop to check, as I did.

If e-bikes are still too dangerous for kids, e-bikes could be treated like beer. You have to be over a certain age.
 
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Outside of the regulatory, sufficient power for an ebike depends on multiple factors: fitness of the rider, terrain, road safety, cargo load, and sometimes, damnit, I just want to get to and from work.

Personally, I like a 750w motor that can run 1200+ watts. I recently put a rear Grin All-Axle hubmotor and Phaserunner controller on a 52v bike. It's quite the fast ebike, with a bi-directional throttle for accelerating and braking. The work I do is physical, so it's now my work bike.

Otherwise, I have lately been riding this approaching eighteen year-old ebike:
PXL_20260424_234310147.jpg

24 volt, 250 watts of slow-speed throttleless front hubmotor fun!

It all depends on what you want or need to do. So I'm keeping a close eye on legislation and/or enforcement.
And this sweet thing might soon get a legal maximum speed limit set via controller:

PXL_20260214_201304280.jpg
 
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