Bosch Smart System, Kiox 300, PowerTube 750, eBike Flow App

[webcurl]

So Apple updated your iphones to 5G and your old Apple TVs to support 4k ?

That's a very good analogy!

We don't know what hardware limitations exist vs the Nyon, or if there are memory allocation issues, or simply performance issues, or maybe its just beyond the scope of the product and the team resources have already been reallocated to other projects.
Point is, assuming it's a simple sw switch that Bosch is choosing not to enable is a pretty big assumption.

I assume you're talking about Custom Ride Modes? I'm pretty confident that the data/parameters/software for this would be in the motor, the only real problem then is the user interface to use it, but like i've said b4 even the Intuvia has seen a bit of light having the limitation of a fixed screen but "eMTB" scrolling on it to push past said limitation. eMTB would be more of a performance issue over a set of custom ride parameters.
If you're talking about motor/display/battery software updates then as far as i know, via a usb cable and an internet portal the dealers have a piece of software (probably MS Windows only) that does this and if Bosch were to strip this down & supply to the people who ultimately pay the $ for their products then i'd say it's essentially a simple sw switch - not really simple but all the same.

 

[William - Bosch Team]

Be glad you don't have a speed system with the smartphone hub. That system hasn't even had a bug fix in 18 months.

I'm sorry, but this is inaccurate.

How often do you update your system and app? This may be something to investigate if you don't have the most current software versions. I'd imagine you are already on top of this, but keeping the app up-to-date is just as important as updating the system components. I asked my associate @Stephen - Bosch Team about the navigation issues you've reported, and he has not experienced that. He will share more info shortly, but there may be something with your setup that is causing the problems you are experiencing. If this is the case, he can help you get it figured out.

Which OS are you using on your smart phone? It looks the COBI.Bike app needs iOS 12 or Android 6 (or later).

Regarding recent updates, it appears:

The SPH software was updated just under a year ago, but most updates will relate to the COBI.Bike app as this product is primarily app-based. Current version of SPH software is 1.0.9

The COBI.Bike app has had approx. (6) update versions in the last 12 months, all of which address topics related to the app's functionality. Each update appears to have multiple parts to it. This does not count internal-only updates that specifically address servers, etc., related to SPH or Cobi. The App Store shows the most recent version changes, but may not include all of the details for each version update. (pic attached)

The Play Store shows the most recent update as being released on June 15, 2021. I’m not as good at navigating the Google Play store, but I've attached a screenshot showing what I could find- the date of the most recent update for Android. (pic attached)

Additionally, there appears to have been approx. (5) update "packages" for batteries and Gen4 DUs (including your Performance Line Speed DU) in the last 12 months, all of which address multiple items. Some improve software stability or battery performance, others may make small changes on functions like Walk Assist, etc. (internal document, no pics)

If you feel that any component of your system is not operating as it should, I recommend a visit to your local Certified Bosch dealer. In addition to making sure your entire eBike system's software is up to date, they can check for any error codes, and/or investigate any specific performance complaints.

I hope this helps!

 

[William - Bosch Team]

I know, it was probably just promised that the warranty lasts one or two years... But a large company should be big not only by advertising new, more expensive and functional products, but by loyalty to existing customers. I'm not happy that the only thing I can't change or upgrade on my bike has the Bosch name.

Warranty is 2 years for private use, 1 year for commercial (example: rental). Aside from warranty, Bosch will support the components/software of your system for at least 6 years beyond the time the product line is eventually discontinued.

My apologies as I don't know your exact model of eBike, but generally speaking there are (5) displays that are compatible with your Bosch-equipped eBike, and (2-3) battery sizes/capacities (depending on OEM design.) You may also have the option to go to Dual Battery, if the OEM allowed for your eBike to work with it. Display compatibility may be limited by some features like eShift, if equipped (Purion and SPH do not work with eShift).

Any upgrades to a drive unit would have to be an OEM decision, as they are the eBike manufacturer. Bosch only supplies systems for eBike manufacturers. As far as I know, no OEM has any plans to allow for DU swapping. This would affect their product safety testing, compliance, reliability, etc.

I'm happy to answer any more specific compatibility questions regarding your specific eBike model.

Thanks!

 

[retiredNH]

I'm sorry, but this is inaccurate.

Oh really? See my comments below.

How often do you update your system and app? This may be something to investigate if you don't have the most current software versions. I'd imagine you are already on top of this, but keeping the app up-to-date is just as important as updating the system components. I asked my associate @Stephen - Bosch Team about the navigation issues you've reported, and he has not experienced that. He will share more info shortly, but there may be something with your setup that is causing the problems you are experiencing. If this is the case, he can help you get it figured out.

My biggest problem with cobi.bike is, as I've said, if you're at the fitness screen, navigation doesn't work - doesn't update. So I no longer use navigation. If I'm not using navigation, ride stats, mileage, time etc. do update. Go figure. I'd be very surprised if your colleague can't reproduce this, since my setup is up to date and reasonably stock for Android.

Which OS are you using on your smart phone? It looks the COBI.Bike app needs iOS 12 or Android 6.

My main device runs Android 8. Another Android 12

Regarding recent updates, it appears:

The SPH software was updated just under a year ago, but most updates will relate to the COBI.Bike app as this product is primarily app-based. Current version of SPH software is 1.0.9

The COBI.Bike app has had approx. (6) update versions in the last 12 months, all of which address topics related to the app's functionality. Each update appears to have multiple parts to it. This does not count internal-only updates that specifically address servers, etc., related to SPH or Cobi. The App Store shows the most recent version changes, but may not include all of the details for each version update. (pic attached)

Both my SPH and my cobi.bike apps have been and are up to date.

The Play Store shows the most recent update as being released on June 15, 2021. I’m not as good at navigating the Google Play store, but I've attached a screenshot showing what I could find- the date of the most recent update for Android. (pic attached)

Additionally, there appears to have been approx. (5) update "packages" for batteries and Gen4 DUs (including your Performance Line Speed DU) in the last 12 months, all of which address multiple items. Some improve software stability or battery performance, others may make small changes on functions like Walk Assist, etc. (internal document, no pics)

If you feel that any component of your system is not operating as it should, I recommend a visit to your local Certified Bosch dealer. In addition to making sure your entire eBike system's software is up to date, they can check for any error codes, and/or investigate any specific performance complaints.

When I was last in my LBS (not so local, over 1 hour away), a Trek owned store, they wanted to charge me for checking for any updates, AND told me they couldn't do anything that day anyway because their ebike guy was out. This is a red herring issue anyway, because you're talking about bug fixes apparently to the DU. Certainly no press releases or other public information about any improvements to the speed DU.

I hope this helps!

 

[retiredNH]

I'm sorry, but this is inaccurate.



Additionally, there appears to have been approx. (5) update "packages" for batteries and Gen4 DUs (including your Performance Line Speed DU) in the last 12 months, all of which address multiple items. Some improve software stability or battery performance, others may make small changes on functions like Walk Assist, etc. (internal document, no pics)

It's a bit cheesy in my book to ding a customer for not knowing about "updates" that aren't even public knowledge. Obviously whatever updates your're referencing don't offer much to customers, whether for safety or performance. If they did, Bosch no doubt would have released a press release and I would have hoped my LBS would have contacted me.

 

[William - Bosch Team]

It sounds like our communication lines may have crossed somewhere. Please know that I'm doing my best to understand and to help.

I’m sorry to hear that you did not have a positive experience when you visited your dealer. I'd recommend you address that with them directly and perhaps look to schedule future visits ahead of time to make the travel more worthwhile.

I’d be curious to know if there were any feature updates promised or advertised for the Gen4 Speed DU. I assume it already had the 75Nm to 85Nm feature update when you took delivery. If there is false or misleading information out there, we want to fix it. I'm happy to forward your feedback to HQ, but I need to understand where Bosch fell short on this so I can effectively express it to them.

Bosch recommends system updates approx. every 6 months to ensure that your eBike system is up-to-date and functioning properly. There are often minor "rolling changes" that improve functionality, and in my experience most companies don’t directly advertise these changes.

I hope this helps clarify any lingering misunderstanding. Please feel free to direct message me with additional questions.

Thanks!

 

[retiredNH]

It sounds like our communication lines may have crossed somewhere. Please know that I'm doing my best to understand and to help.

I’m sorry to hear that you did not have a positive experience when you visited your dealer. I'd recommend you address that with them directly and perhaps look to schedule future visits ahead of time to make the travel more worthwhile.

It was a scheduled appointment, believe it or not. And yes, I gave them feedback...

I’d be curious to know if there were any feature updates promised or advertised for the Gen4 Speed DU. I assume it already had the 75Nm to 85Nm feature update when you took delivery. If there is false or misleading information out there, we want to fix it. I'm happy to forward your feedback to HQ, but I need to understand where Bosch fell short on this so I can effectively express it to them.

You and I know this is a rhetorical question. You would know of any update "promises". I am not aware of any.

Bosch recommends system updates approx. every 6 months to ensure that your eBike system is up-to-date and functioning properly. There are often minor "rolling changes" that improve functionality, and in my experience most companies don’t directly advertise these changes.

...Except that we consumers don't interact with Bosch. We interact with a LBS and the bike manufacturers who spec Bosch components. Some of us are a long way from a Bosch equipped LBS too, so it's be nice to know what these updates are, to decide if it's worthwhile to burn a half day going to the LBS. It's really a disservice to us consumers if neither Bosch nor the bike mfgrs tell customers of beneficial changes. Strange, if you ask me.

I hope this helps clarify any lingering misunderstanding. Please feel free to direct message me with additional questions.

Thanks!

 

[webcurl]

Additionally, there appears to have been approx. (5) update "packages" for batteries and Gen4 DUs (including your Performance Line Speed DU) in the last 12 months, all of which address multiple items. Some improve software stability or battery performance, others may make small changes on functions like Walk Assist, etc. (internal document, no pics)

Appreciate your efforts!
Any chance of a "changelog" detailing these updates existing in the future?

 

[William - Bosch Team]

Appreciate your efforts!
Any chance of a "changelog" detailing these updates existing in the future?

Happy to help!

This would be great to have, but if I'm being honest... I'm not optimistic that it will happen. This kind of information is not really available to dealers, and at the risk of speculation, I predict that there has never really been any demand for it. It may be difficult to justify developing a protocol for sharing it properly. My own personal understanding of how organizations generally communicate software changes is admittedly limited.

Our messaging to dealers is something like this: Recommend software updates to your customers every 6 months, or 12 at most. This ensures that they will generally have the most up-to-date versions, including new features, improvements on existing features, and the occasional bug fix. Improvements aside, software updates are also very important in their function as a good "hard reset" for the system.

This "hard reset" part is key. I've helped shops with Bosch systems that had multiple issues present, but were resolved by performing the first software update in 2+ years. I've observed the same thing with my personal smart phones and computers.


All of that being said, is there any particular info you are interested in, or just an overview of what has changed?

I'm about to take some family vacation time, but when I return I'd be happy to dig through our files and see if there is anything of value that I can share with you.

 

[webcurl]

Something like this but for parts that are Dealer portal only update: https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/connect/release-notes/
Perhaps put into a place like this: https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/software-update/
I wouldn't mind knowing whats changed for Performance Line CX My15 - Motor from 1.8.0.0 to 1.8.6.0, PowerTube 1.8.0.0 to 1.10.8.0 & Intuvia 5.8.1.0 to 5.9.2.0
With info that is already available for dealers looking like this:

 

[William - Bosch Team]

Something like this but for parts that are Dealer portal only update: https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/connect/release-notes/
Perhaps put into a place like this: https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/software-update/
I wouldn't mind knowing whats changed for Performance Line CX My15 - Motor from 1.8.0.0 to 1.8.6.0, PowerTube 1.8.0.0 to 1.10.8.0 & Intuvia 5.8.1.0 to 5.9.2.0
With info that is already available for dealers looking like this:

Thank you for sharing this. The links and screenshot are especially helpful- should make it much easier to explain the suggestion/request to HQ.

I'll figure out how to move this forward when I get back from vacation.

 

[webcurl]

Thank you for sharing this. The links and screenshot are especially helpful- should make it much easier to explain the suggestion/request to HQ.

I'll figure out how to move this forward when I get back from vacation.

And preferably not secretive like Google and many others do
Unless of course the only update is a tweak to the tuning detection algorithm

 

[Vim Fuego]

I too would like to know what's changed in motor firmware, I have Gen3 performance line motor, and there is an update for it, but I would like to know the details, before I pay a service centre to apply the update.

Latest: 1.3.3.0
Mine: 1.3.0.0

I'm also interested in what training a Bosch service centre has to undergo to get on the list, as all my local service centres have been really really poor when it comes to knowledge.

 

[William - Bosch Team]

Something like this but for parts that are Dealer portal only update: https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/connect/release-notes/
Perhaps put into a place like this: https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/software-update/
I wouldn't mind knowing whats changed for Performance Line CX My15 - Motor from 1.8.0.0 to 1.8.6.0, PowerTube 1.8.0.0 to 1.10.8.0 & Intuvia 5.8.1.0 to 5.9.2.0
With info that is already available for dealers looking like this:

I submitted your suggestion to the NA team last week... it was well received, so I'm optimistic. Next steps will involve getting the correct approvals, etc., which may take a little time. I'll update you when I know more.

Thanks again for the great suggestion!

 

[Vim Fuego]

I submitted your suggestion to the NA team last week... it was well received, so I'm optimistic. Next steps will involve getting the correct approvals, etc., which may take a little time. I'll update you when I know more.

Thanks again for the great suggestion!

Any update on this? I don't have very good support network in my area, so if I want to go to the effort and expense of getting components updated, I need to know beforehand that it's going to be worthwhile. Also are releases scheduled? If so how often and when? Nobody wants to hear a bunch of updates are released a week after they paid to get their bike updated.

These are the reasons I didn't bother updating my bike so far.

 

[archerlc]

I'm sorry, but this is inaccurate.

How often do you update your system and app? This may be something to investigate if you don't have the most current software versions. I'd imagine you are already on top of this, but keeping the app up-to-date is just as important as updating the system components. I asked my associate @Stephen - Bosch Team about the navigation issues you've reported, and he has not experienced that. He will share more info shortly, but there may be something with your setup that is causing the problems you are experiencing. If this is the case, he can help you get it figured out.

Which OS are you using on your smart phone? It looks the COBI.Bike app needs iOS 12 or Android 6 (or later).

Regarding recent updates, it appears:

The SPH software was updated just under a year ago, but most updates will relate to the COBI.Bike app as this product is primarily app-based. Current version of SPH software is 1.0.9

The COBI.Bike app has had approx. (6) update versions in the last 12 months, all of which address topics related to the app's functionality. Each update appears to have multiple parts to it. This does not count internal-only updates that specifically address servers, etc., related to SPH or Cobi. The App Store shows the most recent version changes, but may not include all of the details for each version update. (pic attached)

The Play Store shows the most recent update as being released on June 15, 2021. I’m not as good at navigating the Google Play store, but I've attached a screenshot showing what I could find- the date of the most recent update for Android. (pic attached)

Additionally, there appears to have been approx. (5) update "packages" for batteries and Gen4 DUs (including your Performance Line Speed DU) in the last 12 months, all of which address multiple items. Some improve software stability or battery performance, others may make small changes on functions like Walk Assist, etc. (internal document, no pics)

If you feel that any component of your system is not operating as it should, I recommend a visit to your local Certified Bosch dealer. In addition to making sure your entire eBike system's software is up to date, they can check for any error codes, and/or investigate any specific performance complaints.

I hope this helps!

The compass error on COBI ( Apple) has not been fixed. It can be fixed but they are not working on it. I was on the phone with COBI twice in the month of November. They were very nice but they have no fix. It could be fixed by resetting the compass 90 degrees counterclockwise. It is always off by 90 degrees.

 

[webcurl]

Anyone know how future proof the new system is:
Can it handle voltages other than 36VDC?
Can it handle more than 2 batteries?
Can the batteries handle more generic charging, ie. easier Solar charging, DC input's from home DC systems, 3rd party Electric Car charging station converters (future), etc?
Or has the charging process become even more proprietary?

 

[fooferdoggie]

Anyone know how future proof the new system is:
Can it handle voltages other than 36VDC?
Can it handle more than 2 batteries?
Can the batteries handle more generic charging, ie. easier Solar charging, DC input's from home DC systems, 3rd party Electric Car charging station converters (future), etc?
Or has the charging process become even more proprietary?

why do you need more then 36v? where would you fit more than two batteries on a bike? since so few charge with a solar charger its doubtful and no one charges from a car charger.

 

[webcurl]

why do you need more then 36v? where would you fit more than two batteries on a bike? since so few charge with a solar charger its doubtful and no one charges from a car charger.

A seat tube could hold a battery or when not being used could alternatively be a glove compartment/storage.
Why do you have en ebike, couldn't you get by without? If you have 2 batteries in your's then why did you need more than one? With everyone going zero emissions etc. why would anyone need more flexible charging in the future?
Imagine if Bosch or anyone else work out that a combination of a specific future battery & motor works out to be more efficient at a multiple of 24VDC (24 or 48VDC) instead, or a multiple of 16VDC, etc.
Or for a particular future battery chemistry it is more efficient and safer to have 2 in parallel in the space of a current singular battery. Which would mean 4 or more batteries in total.
You're speaking about the present, i was speaking about the future.

 

[webcurl]

since so few charge with a solar charger its doubtful and no one charges from a car charger.

And is that because Bosch discontinued their 12VDC Travel Charger and there is no effective replacement at all or because nobody wants to do it?
A bit hard to say without a product that enables it?