Bosch Smart System, Kiox 300, PowerTube 750, eBike Flow App

[Stefan Mikes]

You don't suppose that Bosch was in communication with manufacturers months ago about their upcoming new products? Or do you think Trek, Specialized and RM learned only at the press conference? What universe are you in?

OK. Trek has announced a single several Smart System e-MTBs. These are Rail 9.9 and 9.8 XT models.

Shop Rail+ — the full-powered e-MTB enduro bike

Rail+ is a beast of an electric mountain bike, with tons of support and travel to explore into the beyond. Browse online and in-store at a local Trek retailer.

www.trekbikes.com

 

[retiredNH]

OK. Trek has announced a single several Smart System e-MTBs. These are Rail 9.9 and 9.8 XT models.

Shop Rail+ — the full-powered e-MTB enduro bike

Rail+ is a beast of an electric mountain bike, with tons of support and travel to explore into the beyond. Browse online and in-store at a local Trek retailer.

www.trekbikes.com

That price? Ouch...

 

[SPSP2]

I'm sorry, I didn't catch up before. Thank you @William - Bosch Team very much for joining our discussion. As users who invested in ebike a year ago, we are concerned about further developments. Personally, I have basic questions:
- Will a new feature be added to the Bosch Connect store for the current Kiox? Above all, the possibility of custom modes.
- will it be possible sometime in the future to upgrade the new engine and electronics kit to the current Bosch Performance CX gen4? (Of course the price is a question too, I have Trek Rail)
- will be possible manual upgrade firmware by user for engine gen4?

 

[fooferdoggie]

I'm sorry, I didn't catch up before. Thank you @William - Bosch Team very much for joining our discussion. As users who invested in ebike a year ago, we are concerned about further developments. Personally, I have basic questions:
- Will a new feature be added to the Bosch Connect store for the current Kiox? Above all, the possibility of custom modes.
- will it be possible sometime in the future to upgrade the new engine and electronics kit to the current Bosch Performance CX gen4? (Of course the price is a question too, I have Trek Rail)
- will be possible manual upgrade firmware by user for engine gen4?

I doubt the old kiox will ever get custom modes but who knows? you hew never ben able to upgrade from one bosh system to the next they are al so much different. Plus bosch doesn't rot sell the components separately. I doubt they will do over the air updates on anything but the new system or they would ahve done it already.

 

[SPSP2]

Instead of assuming, let's wait for the answer, maybe @William - Bosch Team will surprise us. After all, he offered to try to find out some info about the future of the current system.

 

[fooferdoggie]

Instead of assuming, let's wait for the answer, maybe @William - Bosch Team will surprise us. After all, he offered to try to find out some info about the future of the current system.

he has told us that the kiosks not going to get modes and there is no bosch setup that has been upgradable.

 

[William - Bosch Team]

I'm sorry, I didn't catch up before. Thank you @William - Bosch Team very much for joining our discussion. As users who invested in ebike a year ago, we are concerned about further developments. Personally, I have basic questions:
- Will a new feature be added to the Bosch Connect store for the current Kiox? Above all, the possibility of custom modes.
- will it be possible sometime in the future to upgrade the new engine and electronics kit to the current Bosch Performance CX gen4? (Of course the price is a question too, I have Trek Rail)
- will be possible manual upgrade firmware by user for engine gen4?

Hello!

- I'm not aware of any plans to add any additional features to Kiox. That happened a year or so ago when Bosch added navigation to Kiox, and the LOCK feature a little before that (I might be slightly off on the times). Custom riding modes will likely not be an option for Bosch system 2 Kiox.

- If you have a Trek Rail, you should already have the system 2 Gen4 CX drive unit, which offers the same mechanical performance as the new smart system CX drive unit. It is not possible to change the drive unit to a different model on any Bosch-equipped eBike.

- As far as I know, no plans to expand over-the-air-update capability for system 2 eBikes.

- While Bosch likely won't release any new updates that introduce new features on system 2, they will continue to release software updates approximately every 6 months to improve/update functionality, stability, etc. of the system.

I hope this helps, and please let me know if I can clarify any part it.

Thanks!

 

[SPSP2]

Thank you for being honest. That's what I had in mind when I wrote my opinion two weeks ago. It is sad for such expansive a year ago product locked by Bosch. (Trek Rail, Kiox, Bosch Performance CX). No firmware update by user (even through usb) and no custom modes for kiox (nyon is too big for enduro).
Anyway, the 2A charger is nice option for nightly charging - the battery lasts longer.

 

[retiredNH]

Thank you for being honest. That's what I had in mind when I wrote my opinion two weeks ago. It is sad for such expansive a year ago product locked by Bosch. (Trek Rail, Kiox, Bosch Performance CX). No firmware update by user (even through usb) and no custom modes for kiox (nyon is too big for enduro).
Anyway, the 2A charger is nice option for nightly charging - the battery lasts longer.

Be glad you don't have a speed system with the smartphone hub. That system hasn't even had a bug fix in 18 months.

 

[webcurl]

No firmware update by user (even through usb) and no custom modes for kiox (nyon is too big for enduro).

In Bosch's defense, none of these things were ever promised.
But it must be absolutely impossible to have a stripped down version of the PC software that the dealers use to update the firmware via USB cable

 

[webcurl]

It is not possible to change the drive unit to a different model on any Bosch-equipped eBike.

What appears to be no mechanical change but an electronics & software upgrade to enable the CAN FD protocol (and more thorough tuning detection?) in the new motor i was thinking that this would have been a good time for Bosch to introduce a modular/flexible motor fitting system/standard that could perhaps cater for a (limited) cross-grade and more importantly potential future motor upgrade.

 

[SPSP2]

I know, it was probably just promised that the warranty lasts one or two years... But a large company should be big not only by advertising new, more expensive and functional products, but by loyalty to existing customers. I'm not happy that the only thing I can't change or upgrade on my bike has the Bosch name.

 

[ava1ar]

I'm not happy that the only thing I can't change or upgrade on my bike has the Bosch name.

I don't think this is surprise for Bosch owners - Bosch is known to be very restrictive about their ebike electronics and very limited upgradeability.

 

[SPSP2]

I was not a Bosch customer before. I guess I was optimistic and didn't read the discussions.

 

[ava1ar]

I was not a Bosch customer before. I guess I was optimistic and didn't read the discussions.

Do you have examples of vendors, who are different? I can think of buying conversion kit from Bafang - in this case you have low-level access to everything and can tweak it as you want. However this is quite a radical approach and I don't have enough time for this personally. What will be the vendors with proven history of delivery new features to existing customers, especially on older platforms? I don' think there are any.

 

[retiredNH]

Do you have examples of vendors, who are different? I can think of buying conversion kit from Bafang - in this case you have low-level access to everything and can tweak it as you want. However this is quite a radical approach and I don't have enough time for this personally. What will be the vendors with proven history of delivery new features to existing customers, especially on older platforms? I don' think there are any.

Actually, Bosch did this themselves with the new ride modes for CX. Too bad for some that it was limited to one display. OTOH, those of us with a speed drive...

 

[SPSP2]

@ava1ar , you mean if you want to keep company with wolves, you must learn how to howl. But every company can say no.
For example, we have several generations of iphone, ipad, macbooks and apple tv in the family and they are still getting a new operating system. Not only patches, but also lots of new features. On those one year old ebikes, we can change and upgrade virtually everything except Bosch parts, which will not be developed now and are locked. So a more demanding user (why not?) must solve a new model. It is sad.

So we still have to go to the service for an upgrade and use a blocked system, where a little code would be enough and the kiox would also have custom modes (like the new model).

 

[webcurl]

So on one hand the Bafang is much more tweak-able, but has it much more or around the same reliability as a Bosch? Is the combination of the electronics, torque sensor & software as smooth at delivering power as the Bosch? Do their batteries last as long? I know you can get 2 or 3 of their batteries for the price of one Bosch but if you want your stuff kind of mission critical then...
Other Bosch products i have/had just simply, work.
And i'm now not totally satisfied myself with my Gen2 CX (i was for a long time until i heard about all these improvements ), i can't get the torque upgrade, nor the Tour+ and other modes, i want Custom Ride modes too but don't want a Nyon (not $ related), and i would happily pay to upgrade my motor to a Gen4 to remove the extra resistance beyond assistance but can't - not Bosch's fault, every ebike mid drive motor maker has a different motor mount frame requirement for every new version of their motor.
I guess to squeeze more dollars out of my Bosch investment i just may have to invest in one of these: https://www.volspeed.de/epages/83313866.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/83313866/Products/1233
Also from 2018 - 2020:

Bosch Software Change Log.

My 2017 e-bike has the Bosch Performance Line motor and Intuvia Display. I see on the Bosch site that the current software versions are 5.8.1 for the Intuvia and 1.8.0.0 for both the power pack and drive. My bike software is 5.7.3 for the Intuvia, 1.7.1.0 for the drive and 1.7.0.0 for the power...

electricbikereview.com

Call out to Bosch for Custom Ride modes

Hands up who would like Custom Riding modes for the Kiox and Smartphone Hub ! ?

electricbikereview.com

Product Improvement:- Feedback to Bosch.

Some manufacturers now have representatives making helpful contributions to this forum. Bosch is one example. If forum members have our own product improvement suggestions perhaps one option is to add any suggestions to this thread with a specific subject line clearing identifying the suggestion...

electricbikereview.com

 

[fooferdoggie]

My ben 2 speed motor has plenty for me I dont need more torque. I would like a regular size chainring as it would reduce noise. I jut put a new chain on and it is rumbling. but the drivetrain lost has 12,000 miles on it so its getting worn.

 

[BlackHand]

For example, we have several generations of iphone, ipad, macbooks and apple tv in the family and they are still getting a new operating system. Not only patches, but also lots of new features.

So Apple updated your iphones to 5G and your old Apple TVs to support 4k ? While I understand your frustration you should realize no one here knows exactly why Kiox did not get ADDITIONAL new features.

We don't know what hardware limitations exist vs the Nyon, or if there are memory allocation issues, or simply performance issues, or maybe its just beyond the scope of the product and the team resources have already been reallocated to other projects.
Point is, assuming it's a simple sw switch that Bosch is choosing not to enable is a pretty big assumption.

BTW, I would also like my gen2 Bosch to get more torque and custom modes without me having to do anything or buy new hardware. I just don't find it surprising or unreasonable that it hasn't happened.