Bosch Smart System, Kiox 300, PowerTube 750, eBike Flow App
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William - Bosch Team
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I have not heard any updates on this topic since before the winter holiday. I just returned from some time-off with my family, so it may be a little bit while I'm getting caught up on everything.
The information I've requested that Bosch share is just logs of what each update includes, after the update has already been released. Your "local" shop should be able to tell you if a new update is available for your bike, especially since it is a service they are charging you for. Keep in mind... even if there are not any new "feature" updates, there are important bug fixes and rollling changes that help keep the system performing optimally. Major updates usually happen twice a year, with smaller updates happening intermittently in the time between the larger updates.
William - Bosch Team
Well-Known Member
I was just told that this was approved, and is waiting on implementation. I don't know what the timeline looks like, and I'm not sure exactly what the implementation will look like. I'll share when I know more, though it's also possible someone here encounters it before I have a chance to check-in. Either way, sounds like good news!
While I appreciate new technology it appears to me that ebikes have reached a level of development where the status quo will be enjoyable for years to come. The Gazelle Ultimate 380+, without any new updates, seems like a wonderful bike that should give many years of enjoyment. The only caveat that I can see is the ability to buy new batteries when they wear out over time.
William - Bosch Team
Well-Known Member
They have completed/published the new section for software update release notes.
https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/connect/release-notes
It is on the US site, but I'd imagine all info should be the same.
https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/connect/release-notes
It is on the US site, but I'd imagine all info should be the same.
I read the entire document. The name COBI never appeared. Did I miss something?
William - Bosch Team
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing that they didn't add the COBI notes since they've always been available from the app store, but I don't know the exact reasoning behind it.
That's a good start!
However all of the the important content is missing: DU(s) firmware(s), Battery(s) firmware, etc. No Intuvia.
It would be perfect if it's integrated into this section of the Bosch website:
Updates and software versions for on-board computers and drives
Retrofitting and keeping your pedelec and on-board computer up-to-date: you can find the current software versions and updates for Bosch eBike systems here.
www.bosch-ebike.com
Agree. For example, I can get any of the updates above (if I had that device) from home, couldn't I? But not a DU update. For me, that involves a 120 mile, three hour RT to the bike store. I'd certainly like to avoid that if I can, particularly since my last visit there last year was less than satisfying...That's a good start!
However all of the the important content is missing: DU(s) firmware(s), Battery(s) firmware, etc. No Intuvia.
It would be perfect if it's integrated into this section of the Bosch website:
And every DU or whatever listed there is a clickable link to a "changelog" or "release-notes" for that particular DU, battery, etc.Updates and software versions for on-board computers and drives
Retrofitting and keeping your pedelec and on-board computer up-to-date: you can find the current software versions and updates for Bosch eBike systems here.
With the exception of the new Smart System:
I think the only updates you can get at home are the Cobi (app not on bike display?) & Nyon.
I don't think you can update the Kiox at home.
You definitely can't update any of the DU's, batteries. Intuvia display or Purion display.
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
the Kiox and Nyon can both be updated from your phone.
Then that makes 3 components out of 17 different Bosch ebike components where you can upgrade the firmware yourself (different batteries, DU's, ABS, displays).
Updates and software versions for on-board computers and drives
Retrofitting and keeping your pedelec and on-board computer up-to-date: you can find the current software versions and updates for Bosch eBike systems here.
www.bosch-ebike.com
fooferdoggie
Well-Known Member
I know. I odnt know if there have been updates for Purion and Intuvia though.Then that makes 3 components out of 17 different Bosch ebike components where you can upgrade the firmware yourself (different batteries, DU's, ABS, displays).
Updates and software versions for on-board computers and drives
Retrofitting and keeping your pedelec and on-board computer up-to-date: you can find the current software versions and updates for Bosch eBike systems here.
That's the whole point of the discussion!
We the user don't know if there are updates never mind what has been updated, i'm sure the dealer doesn't check every day either and call their customers if there are, and as far as i know the dealer wouldn't know unless he/she hooks up a bike to the Bosch system and the system display's a changelog (which we don't get to see).
This is still what is not possible to see.
Almost everything in https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/connect/release-notes the user can already see.
The rest seems like secret
William - Bosch Team
Well-Known Member
Bosch's messaging to dealers has always been to recommend software updates approx. every 6 months. This ensures that you have the most up-to-date software on all components, keeping in mind that the bulk of updates are generally improvements to functionality, stability, efficiency, etc., rather than new product features. An eBike system that goes too long without an update may experience random issues, exactly like a smartphone or computer that has gone too long without a software update. eBike system aside, any bicycle that is regularly ridden needs maintenance at least every 6 months, but ideally more frequently. This might include lubrication of cable/housing/chain/pivots/etc., safety check of all critical hardware, derailleur adjustments, tubeless sealant refresh, etc.
Regardless of the contents of a software update package, Bosch recommends the update to ensure everything keeps working as designed (or better!) They would not put all of the effort into creating and releasing the updates if they were not a benefit to the owners/riders of Bosch-equipped eBikes.
Regardless of the contents of a software update package, Bosch recommends the update to ensure everything keeps working as designed (or better!) They would not put all of the effort into creating and releasing the updates if they were not a benefit to the owners/riders of Bosch-equipped eBikes.
With all due respect, some of what you say is NOT true. Electronic equipment does not accumulate "issues" just because of the passage of time. The "issues" are baked in from the get go, when a software build is installed. Yes, some may become apparent over time, and, in theory, become apparent when other components or software change. But not necessarily.
What you're really suggesting is that we owners drag our bikes into the dealer (who may or may not charge us) every six months "just to be sure". Wow. That's quite an ask for some of us - you're asking that I spend at least a day per year driving (and waiting) to the nearest Trek bike shop (2 trips of 3 hours RT and waiting time) "just in case".
A number of us were hoping for better, some help in avoiding unnecessary trips. I guess not.
Stephen - Bosch Team
Active Member
With all due respect, some of what you say is NOT true. Electronic equipment does not accumulate "issues" just because of the passage of time. The "issues" are baked in from the get go, when a software build is installed. Yes, some may become apparent over time, and, in theory, become apparent when other components or software change. But not necessarily.
What you're really suggesting is that we owners drag our bikes into the dealer (who may or may not charge us) every six months "just to be sure". Wow. That's quite an ask for some of us - you're asking that I spend at least a day per year driving (and waiting) to the nearest Trek bike shop (2 trips of 3 hours RT and waiting time) "just in case".
A number of us were hoping for better, some help in avoiding unnecessary trips. I guess not.
William is correct. I am sorry this answer is not satisfactory. It seems like the biggest issue here is your proximity to a dealer?
We work hard to establish new dealers where is possible. A lot of our heritage in components could be likened to software in the cars we drive these days. My Mercedes Sprinter (for work) cannot be updated without a dealer's expertise. On occasion, this has caused me to travel to the dealer (not conveniently located to me). Yes, the travel is an inconvenience but I am getting expert Mercedes service and updates. I witness this sentiment a lot on this forum. I completely hear your frustration, but there needs to some credence in the fact that a highly-technical transportation device in a more remote setting does have some barriers.
If there is a bicycle dealer closer to you that is not a Bosch Certified, let us know--we'd love to reach out and begin a relationship.
I will confidently inform you that an update is not "just to be sure." William and I have visibility to all notes and ideas that go into upcoming software updates. Not only do these updates fix bugs, but they install new advancements to each product.
For example, Performance Line CX DU's existed on the market and then we launched eMTB mode, programmable via a software update. Same goes for Tour+ mode. The Lock Function for Kiox and Nyon was released via a software update---same goes for navigation on the Kiox.
William and I are present here to assist consumers on this forum in as many ways possible.
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I can see you folks are not listening, or at least parroting the corporate line. Unlike a motor vehicle, as you both no doubt know, ebikes are a bit less complicated. And I have never heard an auto dealer tell me I need to come in regularly for "updates"! Maybe Sprinters are different....
"New advancements?" Yes, of course, for CX DUs, and that was widely advertised! Ditto for Kiox and Nyon new features. So reading between the lines, for those of us with Speed and Smart Phone hub, we should wait for an announcement...
I'll step out of this discussion, since I can see I'm just wasting your and my time, and just wait for an announcement of something significant for my setup.
I understand the mantra, it's very similar to all Big Tech, other big companies, well big everything, it's a similar concept to what the Sheep dog does here in Australia
And i understand the idea of herding us Sheep into the dealers to do it regularly for the just in case/highly advised fixes, optimisations & occasional new feature which of course are for our benefit as well as Bosch's reputation/track record.
However picture this scenario:
[
I have a Performance CX ebike, IGH without Electronic gear shifting, no Tour+ mode(don't want or not avail), no ABS and there was a detailed changelog available for myself to digest:
According to the changelog over 2 years there were clearly tweaks/optimisations, fixes and new features relating to parts my ebike does not have.
The changelog does not mention any tweaks or fixes to do with my display, DU or batteries.
My dealer is 800km away or am not confident with more local dealers.
The ebike is currently running fine.
]
Why should i update it if it's costly or too time consuming to do?
If there was a detailed changelog then i wouldn't feel like an old Lamb and would get satisfaction from making the decision myself, as after all - the money that has flowed towards Bosch ultimately originated in my pocket
Now i understand that there may from time to time be a need to update/tweak the "Tampering" detection algorithm within the software to satisfy either Bosch, Authorities, Insurance companies or a combination of the above, and a bit of a sensitive subject to list in the changelog.
The current mantra would work very well for this to happen without question or disclosure, this is currently how Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc. operate.
Maybe put this into the changelog as "Various optimisations/tweaks" and settle for as many users that you can get.
Recommendations for users to update regularly or 6 months/whatever does not guarantee that every users ebike get's that updated "Tampering" detection algorithm either.
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Electronics is a very fixed at design time/manufacture thing, however software & hardware can be tightly integrated these days.
Temperature, overload & other factors can change the "design" of the Electronics over time. Yes you can design for change but there is a limit, software is often best at "managing" some of these factors of the hardware.
I've managed to see one part (screenshot) of a changelog in regards to my ebikes software whereby i took it in to get upgraded regardless:
Bosch Software Change Log.
My 2017 e-bike has the Bosch Performance Line motor and Intuvia Display. I see on the Bosch site that the current software versions are 5.8.1 for the Intuvia and 1.8.0.0 for both the power pack and drive. My bike software is 5.7.3 for the Intuvia, 1.7.1.0 for the drive and 1.7.0.0 for the power...
electricbikereview.com
The batteries update was pleasing to see, i didn't know exactly what it was but was confident Bosch found a more optimised way to charge/manage the batteries.
As the batteries are expensive and very important to me i thought great.
Also this was 4 years ago, i know Lithiums have been around a long time but best practise consensus has only been clearly defined in the last 4 years or so, perhaps this was a part of the final decision to "do the tweak"?
This is an example of, if the update didn't happen perhaps the batteries would have decayed faster over time - an accumulation over time issue.
With electronics & software there could be many others, eg. under certain un-forseen circumstances a transistor may have too much power passing through it and a software tweak could fix it.
Or there may be an improved, ever so slight tweak to the DU reducing power during gear changes that would shave off a small amount of excess wear on multiple parts.
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